Long range target shooting caliber - Page 3

4runnerman · October 31, 2013, 05:03 AM

Bart- After I read your post I also went and looked at the same rules. I did not see it in there either. This is going to raise some questions when I see him again.
This is my first year at F Class so I am the rookie out there and just want to get along with all. The last match of the year is over,but that will give me all winter to read through all the rules.

Emcon5-- Sorry for the mis information.

4runnerman · October 31, 2013, 06:03 PM

Well from the F Class people themselves
Here is my e mail to them and there reply

Hello there. Say I have a question for you. I have been told the non turret style scopes are not allowed in F Class. Is this correct?. I hope I have this right- The scopes you use a screwdriver or penny to turn your setting. Se...

S
Shiraz Balolia
[email protected]
Hide details

To:
44runnerman
Date:
October 30, 2013, 9:18 PM
Not true - you can use any scope you like with whatever turrets your heart desires.

________________________________________
From: 4runnerman [[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2013 7:00 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Scopes

edward hogan · November 27, 2013, 11:28 PM

To MNoirot,

Dunno what kind of .308 you are shooting that lets you down past 500yds. I'm thinking you'll just see those results magnified by going to a larger recoiling, heavier powder-charged cartridge.

If what you're looking for is accuracy and precision, the ticket is lesser caliber cartridges with super-high ballistic coeficient, and case capacity at optimum to deliver the velocity you need at distance you anticipate.

One cartridge comes to mind, as a great 1000yd performer; the 6mm XC designed by David Tubb. The ctg is basically a 6mm International with AI'd shoulder. I have a 6mm/22-250 AI which is .001 longer in case dimension, otherwise identical. This cartridge will deliver very high BC match bullets with minimum recoil and also with substantially better barrel life, than items like the .243, and 6.5/284.

As far as 1000yd range results go, in 2008 or 9, Dominion Rifle Club of Canada posted results of .223rem fired with 90gr JLK and Sierra Matchking bullets in a very in-depth test. Groups averaged a vertical spread of about 2" in 15 or 20 shot groups, all fired from bolt gun w/1:6.5 twist barrel at 1000yds. The potential is there. A high BC bullet with minimal recoil can deliver the goods.

To get consistent accuracy and precision, really have to have all the variables dialed-in. I have seen scope mounts play a big role in my efforts, and even the ability to set precise inch pound torque values on action and sight mount system has made a difference. Then there is the shooter's ability to read the wind and mirage...

Maybe all you need to get your .308win performing as you'd like is a canted scope base and quality tracking optic with lots of elevation adjustment? Lots of variables to deal with, but rather doubtful going to a .30 magnum or other LongRange performer is going to bring you what you want until you solve the variables at work with your .308...

Of course, you don't really describe your rifle or the ammunition you're using. You just seem to want a purchase solution. Buy something like a Sako TRG-42 and maybe your results will change if you're having rifle problems. If the problems are of your own making, then the new rifle won't likely do any better; in fact due to much heavier recoil, may deliver even worse results. Best to KNOW how all the variables interact and have experience isolating and solving them.

Wish you the best of luck!

Ritz · November 29, 2013, 12:42 PM

If I was looking for a rifle to shoot "flat" out past 500m and didn't want to punish my shoulder, I think I'd look seriously at 7mm-08. If you're already into reloading, that round can easily shoot out to 800-1000m and can also be quite a competent round for hunting anything you'll find in North America (well, maybe not the largest bear...but anything else).

I had been eyeballing the Tikka T3 in 7mm-08 for this purpose, but have recently gotten distracted with "the evil black rifle bug".

Best,

emcon5 · November 29, 2013, 12:50 PM

Quote:

If I was looking for a rifle to shoot "flat" out past 500m

There is no such animal.

Ritz · November 29, 2013, 01:01 PM

Hence the quotes. 7mm-08 would be my choice for longer range precision shooting. How's that?

Best,

Bart B. · November 29, 2013, 01:25 PM

While the 7-08 had its day in high power rifle competition back in the 1990's, it gave way to 6.5mm and 6mm cartridges by the early 2000's. The lighter bullets in those 26 and 24 caliber cartridges makes them easier to shoot accurately. Albeit at the expense of shorter barrel life. Today's popular choice for shoulder fired rifles in long range matches is the 6.5x.284. Get one in good Savage rifle if you're buying a commercial one.

The .264 Win Mag's a very flat shooting cartridge past 500 yards. Mine was great in long range matches. . .for 640 rounds.

Ritz · November 29, 2013, 05:37 PM

While that is true, the original poster was having trouble getting .308 to behave past 500 yards. That's likely not someone trying to compete nationally/internationally as a benchrest shooter. For us mere mortals, 7mm-08 is a good balance between tolerable recoil, the ability to reach out and touch something at 800-1000m, and the ability to perform as a deer/elk/small bear harvester...all without the punishing recoil inherent with pushing larger projectiles out that far and that fast.

Best,

centralmainehunters · December 1, 2013, 09:36 PM

how does 25-06 compare to some of the other smaller caliber cartridges. Picked up a savage earlier this year and am trying to decide if I want to get into shooting it enough to start reloading. Commercial ammo for it isn't cheap, nor readily available in at my local shooting shops. I am considering entering some local competitions.

old roper · December 1, 2013, 11:11 PM

I guess OP purchased a rifle

http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...70#post5674970

emcon5 · December 2, 2013, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by centralmainehunters

how does 25-06 compare to some of the other smaller caliber cartridges. Picked up a savage earlier this year and am trying to decide if I want to get into shooting it enough to start reloading. Commercial ammo for it isn't cheap, nor readily available in at my local shooting shops. I am considering entering some local competitions.

The problem with .25-06 for a LR Target rig is the availability of quality High BC Match Bullets.

The best option is probably the Berger 115g VLD hunting bullet.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/107...oint-boat-tail

The published Ballistics Coefficient of 0.466 is not bad, but lags well behind the better 6.5 and 7mm bullets.

Ritz · December 2, 2013, 03:42 PM

Wow...so he got a .338RUM. WAY too much recoil for my tastes and definitely has the range he was talking about. Then again, if you can't shoot way down range with a .308, it's probably not going to improve by complicating things with a shoulder-thumping flinch added to the mix.

That's got to be at LEAST double the felt recoil of a .308.

Best,

Bart B. · December 3, 2013, 06:23 AM

If he shoots a long range prone match, I hope he mounts the scope way forward. Saw a guy's face covered in blood after he fired his 300 Wby Mag from prone after shooting his first sighter at 1000 yards. The scope's eyepiece worked like a cookie cutter on his eyebrow.

That .338 of his has a lot of recoil.

October 31, 2013, 05:03 AM	#51
4runnerman Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2010 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,577	Bart- After I read your post I also went and looked at the same rules. I did not see it in there either. This is going to raise some questions when I see him again. This is my first year at F Class so I am the rookie out there and just want to get along with all. The last match of the year is over,but that will give me all winter to read through all the rules. Emcon5-- Sorry for the mis information. __________________ NRA Certified RSO NwCP- Performance Isn't Optional

October 31, 2013, 06:03 PM	#52
4runnerman Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2010 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,577	Well from the F Class people themselves Here is my e mail to them and there reply Hello there. Say I have a question for you. I have been told the non turret style scopes are not allowed in F Class. Is this correct?. I hope I have this right- The scopes you use a screwdriver or penny to turn your setting. Se... S Shiraz Balolia [email protected] Hide details To: 44runnerman Date: October 30, 2013, 9:18 PM Not true - you can use any scope you like with whatever turrets your heart desires. ________________________________________ From: 4runnerman [[email protected]] Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2013 7:00 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Scopes __________________ NRA Certified RSO NwCP- Performance Isn't Optional

November 29, 2013, 05:37 PM	#58
Ritz Senior Member Join Date: January 18, 2013 Location: Virginia Posts: 283	While that is true, the original poster was having trouble getting .308 to behave past 500 yards. That's likely not someone trying to compete nationally/internationally as a benchrest shooter. For us mere mortals, 7mm-08 is a good balance between tolerable recoil, the ability to reach out and touch something at 800-1000m, and the ability to perform as a deer/elk/small bear harvester...all without the punishing recoil inherent with pushing larger projectiles out that far and that fast. Best, Last edited by Ritz; November 29, 2013 at 06:55 PM.

December 1, 2013, 11:11 PM	#60
old roper Senior Member Join Date: June 11, 2007 Posts: 2,155	I guess OP purchased a rifle http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...70#post5674970 __________________ Semper Fi Vietnam 1965 VFW Life member NRA Life Member

December 2, 2013, 03:42 PM	#62
Ritz Senior Member Join Date: January 18, 2013 Location: Virginia Posts: 283	Wow...so he got a .338RUM. WAY too much recoil for my tastes and definitely has the range he was talking about. Then again, if you can't shoot way down range with a .308, it's probably not going to improve by complicating things with a shoulder-thumping flinch added to the mix. That's got to be at LEAST double the felt recoil of a .308. Best, Last edited by Ritz; December 2, 2013 at 05:05 PM.

November 27, 2013, 11:28 PM	#53
edward hogan Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2007 Posts: 133	To MNoirot, Dunno what kind of .308 you are shooting that lets you down past 500yds. I'm thinking you'll just see those results magnified by going to a larger recoiling, heavier powder-charged cartridge. If what you're looking for is accuracy and precision, the ticket is lesser caliber cartridges with super-high ballistic coeficient, and case capacity at optimum to deliver the velocity you need at distance you anticipate. One cartridge comes to mind, as a great 1000yd performer; the 6mm XC designed by David Tubb. The ctg is basically a 6mm International with AI'd shoulder. I have a 6mm/22-250 AI which is .001 longer in case dimension, otherwise identical. This cartridge will deliver very high BC match bullets with minimum recoil and also with substantially better barrel life, than items like the .243, and 6.5/284. As far as 1000yd range results go, in 2008 or 9, Dominion Rifle Club of Canada posted results of .223rem fired with 90gr JLK and Sierra Matchking bullets in a very in-depth test. Groups averaged a vertical spread of about 2" in 15 or 20 shot groups, all fired from bolt gun w/1:6.5 twist barrel at 1000yds. The potential is there. A high BC bullet with minimal recoil can deliver the goods. To get consistent accuracy and precision, really have to have all the variables dialed-in. I have seen scope mounts play a big role in my efforts, and even the ability to set precise inch pound torque values on action and sight mount system has made a difference. Then there is the shooter's ability to read the wind and mirage... Maybe all you need to get your .308win performing as you'd like is a canted scope base and quality tracking optic with lots of elevation adjustment? Lots of variables to deal with, but rather doubtful going to a .30 magnum or other LongRange performer is going to bring you what you want until you solve the variables at work with your .308... Of course, you don't really describe your rifle or the ammunition you're using. You just seem to want a purchase solution. Buy something like a Sako TRG-42 and maybe your results will change if you're having rifle problems. If the problems are of your own making, then the new rifle won't likely do any better; in fact due to much heavier recoil, may deliver even worse results. Best to KNOW how all the variables interact and have experience isolating and solving them. Wish you the best of luck!

November 29, 2013, 12:42 PM	#54
Ritz Senior Member Join Date: January 18, 2013 Location: Virginia Posts: 283	If I was looking for a rifle to shoot "flat" out past 500m and didn't want to punish my shoulder, I think I'd look seriously at 7mm-08. If you're already into reloading, that round can easily shoot out to 800-1000m and can also be quite a competent round for hunting anything you'll find in North America (well, maybe not the largest bear...but anything else). I had been eyeballing the Tikka T3 in 7mm-08 for this purpose, but have recently gotten distracted with "the evil black rifle bug". Best,

November 29, 2013, 01:01 PM	#56
Ritz Senior Member Join Date: January 18, 2013 Location: Virginia Posts: 283	Hence the quotes. 7mm-08 would be my choice for longer range precision shooting. How's that? Best,

November 29, 2013, 01:25 PM	#57
Bart B. Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 8,927	While the 7-08 had its day in high power rifle competition back in the 1990's, it gave way to 6.5mm and 6mm cartridges by the early 2000's. The lighter bullets in those 26 and 24 caliber cartridges makes them easier to shoot accurately. Albeit at the expense of shorter barrel life. Today's popular choice for shoulder fired rifles in long range matches is the 6.5x.284. Get one in good Savage rifle if you're buying a commercial one. The .264 Win Mag's a very flat shooting cartridge past 500 yards. Mine was great in long range matches. . .for 640 rounds.

December 1, 2013, 09:36 PM	#59
centralmainehunters Member Join Date: November 4, 2013 Posts: 27	how does 25-06 compare to some of the other smaller caliber cartridges. Picked up a savage earlier this year and am trying to decide if I want to get into shooting it enough to start reloading. Commercial ammo for it isn't cheap, nor readily available in at my local shooting shops. I am considering entering some local competitions.

December 3, 2013, 06:23 AM	#63
Bart B. Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 8,927	If he shoots a long range prone match, I hope he mounts the scope way forward. Saw a guy's face covered in blood after he fired his 300 Wby Mag from prone after shooting his first sighter at 1000 yards. The scope's eyepiece worked like a cookie cutter on his eyebrow. That .338 of his has a lot of recoil.