Gun Control in France...obviously...not working

[johnelmore]

Its a classic example where the bad guys get guns and the good guys have nothing to defend themselves. That unfashionable rotund man with the grey hair doesnt seem like a homeland defense strategy until he whips out his Bill Wilson Carry pistol.

The situation explains itself...an attack can come anywhere, anytime and only a prepared populace can stop massacres. The police department only exists to secure the scene for the coroner. Its the every day people that is there to stop it.

[Eazyeach]

Rest in peace. Terrorism is horrible. Sad sad day.

[SaxonPig]

When I was in Paris in 1989 I dropped in a gun shop we saw. Had a 10/22 and a couple shotguns for sale along with a few pistols. No idea what the gun laws are like but most European countries require licensing and I doubt that concealed carry is an option.

Notice that these attacks never occur in cities where large numbers of people carry guns? Accident?

[wogpotter]

France actually just relaxed the gun laws as they apply to "military arms"!
There's checks, police oversight, club membership (& participation) requirements & so on but .22 rf is effectively unregulated after the changes.

[g.willikers]

But deregulation usually comes too late.
Generations of citizens have gotten used to being disarmed.

[kilimanjaro]

To the contrary, gun control worked very well. The law-abiding civilian populace was disarmed and at the mercy of evil scum with smuggled AK47s, grenades, and explosive nail bombs and vests.

[TXAZ]

Here we go, again:
In the mid 90's Egypt's prime minister Hosni Mubarak said "Egypt is the safest place in the world" on US tv, then the next day there's a deadly attack in Cairo?

Then the 2002 Moscow theater hostage taking: The Russian's non-public response after the fact was VERY harsh to the attackers, their associates and families, yet lesser attacks continue, even thought (most) of the world knows the Russians are not to be trifled with.

And now Paris. The US President yesterday morning, hours before the attack, stated that "ISIS is contained". He previously called them "the JV Team". Clearly ill-informed or simply trying to put lipstick on a pig of which his administration knows little about, he raised more questions as to the ability of governments to look competent, identify threats, keep the public safe as they should confront reality.

The fact is governments really don't have a clue on dealing with ISIS-like, asymmetric threats. They're in denial. Personal protection will either end up being your own charge, or remain at the whim of the attackers.

I expect the most likely response (other than increased firepower in Syria, et al) will not be loosening of gun controls with training, allowing the public to protect themselves,. Instead there will be more legislation restricting more rights from the uninvolved. And I'm sure all the bad guys will follow all the new restrictions about to be set forth....again.

Bottom line: You and your family's protection is really upon you, no one else.

[saltydog 5151]

I learned along time ago that personal protection is a choice, laws or no laws!

[Pond, James Pond]

Gun Control in France...obviously...not working

I have friends and family in France, including Paris so whilst I can understand we all imagine how we might react if we were caught in the carnage, personally I'd be grateful if we don't descend into a "if they all had guns, it would be OK"

I know the temptation is great, but can we refrain from turning this tragedy into a pro-gun soap-box?

More than once, I've seen threads about a school or mall shooting shut-down by mods because it just becomes a "if they'd done this or that, it would have been different" thread.

Not saying it has, just asking that it doesn't.

[Erno86]

Gun violence is an epidemic here in Baltimore. Over the past year...Baltimore City police have confiscated over 3,500 guns. Baltimore has big time gang violence, with gangs called The Bloods, and Crips, MS-13, Hampden Gang and the Black Guerrilla Gang --- And Maryland has some of the toughest anti-gun laws on the books. Baltimore City's homicide rate is teetering on the edge of 300.

[johnelmore]

I just read it was 7 to 8 terrorists and over 100 dead and over 300 injured.

[ripnbst]

The death toll is around 160.

Gun control en masse aside, this could have happened in the US too. It occurred in what would have been a "gun free zone" in the US. Any stadium, arena, or concert hall I've ever seen was a posted no guns building.

[ripnbst]

In other news opening of the European civilian firearms market would likely stimulate both our economy and theirs.

[pete2]

Gun control works as intended, it kept guns out of the hands of honest citizens.
That's all it can do, same as no gun zones.

[gyvel]

Hollande stated that the attacks were acts of war. It will be interesting to see in France follows up with any kind of military response, either in France or in the Middle East.

[manta49]

How manny terrorist atacks have being stopped in America by armed citizens. ? Anyone that thinks that arming people will stop these atacks are kidding themselves. My toughts are with the victims and their families.

[bc76254]

Originally Posted by manta49

How manny terrorist atacks have being stopped in America by armed citizens. ? Anyone that thinks that arming people will stop these atacks are kidding themselves. My toughts are with the victims and their families.

Ever read NRA's Armed Citizen stories? That's a good start toward answering your question. Unless you want to parse the motivations behind individual attacks. I would submit that the failed attack at the Dallas show last year is a good example.

[ronl]

Certainly was a terribly tragic incident. Such senseless slaughter is galling; totally innocent lives sacrificed on the alter of political correctness. I find it totally reprehensible. Kinda' makes me want to go out and find a few ISIS members and slit their throats. I know that's harsh, but it's exactly how I feel. My heart and my prayers do go out to all those who lost loved ones. I wonder if this will change the minds of those Western politicians hell-bent on resettling all those unvetted "refugees"? How will the MSM spin this? Should be interesting. Sure can't label this one workplace violence. Maybe it was some obscure movie that was released that besmirched the prophet. When it happens here, will those who wish to steal my weapons and my rights still seek to leave me defenseless? With ISIS active in all 50 states, I'm certain we will find out the answer to that question. If we do not, it will be telling indeed, as perhaps they do not yet seek to bite the hand that feeds them.

[kilimanjaro]

THE US MSM is already falling all over themselves saying the recent spate of refugees isn't to blame (wrong, at least one attacker was), they're not really muslims (wrong again), and French policy is to blame (wrong again, France didn't start anything), so we'll see how long and how far they try to maintain that fiction.

Merkel is in total denial over this and is doubling down on her policies. I consider her and our media to be non compos mentis about this.

[TXAZ]

manta49 noted:

How many terrorist attacks have being stopped in America by armed citizens. ? Anyone that thinks that arming people will stop these attacks are kidding themselves.

(spell checked)

If we take a common sense definition of terrorism (the FBI, DoJ and DoD don't agree on a definition), there really aren't that many *real* acts of terrorism in the US.

So if we look at a crime that's a serious threat, armed robbery, in a place where there is a fair amount of concealed and open carry, Phoenix AZ, then what you can find is a fair percentage of armed bank robbery attempts are stopped by another customer sticking a gun in the back of the bank robber and suggesting they wait for the police.


As was mentioned above, the NRA's Armed Citizen has some great accounts.

[gyvel]

How manny terrorist atacks have being stopped in America by armed citizens. ? Anyone that thinks that arming people will stop these atacks are kidding themselves. My toughts are with the victims and their families.

Hard to say, but, in your case, terrorist attacks by the IRA weren't stopped because gun ownership is severely restricted. How's that workin' for ya?

[kilimanjaro]

If the several attacks in Paris happened in, say, Dallas, one or two of the gun assaults could have had an armed civilian response, to what end no one can say. If New York or Chicago, probably no such response.

Can't do much about bombers.

[rickyrick]

A very low number of Texas residents actually carry. The numbers are climbing but in the rare chance that an armed civilian were to find himself in such an attack, in Dallas, he would be very much alone.... With a comfy little pocket gun most likely.

I would guess that Vancouver or Spokane, WA, or dare I say Seattle.... Probably more people are armed per capita than Dallas.

Many in Texas may have a gun in the car or home... But most don't like the inconvenience to carry. Even my Ex would chastise me for carrying all of the time, and she had a license as well

[ripnbst]

Vancouver is the Los Angeles of Canada. I can assure you nearly no one carries there.

I think you underestimate Texans.

[rickyrick]

I'm a Texas native for 43 years. I've met more gun toting people in Washington in a couple of years than my whole life in Texas. I'm talking about Vancouver USA, not Canada