Anyone ever try these: .223

Servant · January 6, 2012, 06:48 PM

Roughedge · January 6, 2012, 07:20 PM

As are all Barnes bullets the are great. I load them as a coyote round. Hard hitting and retain almost all therfe weight.

Brian Pfleuger · January 6, 2012, 08:34 PM

Not in 223 but I use the 110gr TTSX in my 7mm-08 Encore handgun. Fantastic bullet. Accuracy is as good as any. I've only shot one deer but it was BANG!, Flop! Dead before his feet hit the ground again.

I notice that they recommend 1:8 twist or better in 223.

FrankenMauser · January 7, 2012, 02:03 AM

Why are you looking at the 70 grain version?

Your rate of twist?
Desired weight range?
Assumed increase in terminal performance?

Neither of us has taken big game with them, but Cornbush and I have both used the 53 gr TSX FB. (.220 Swift for me. .223 Rem for Cornbush.)

m&p45acp10+1 · January 7, 2012, 05:57 AM

I still have not been able to convince myself to drop enough coin to buy any of them. It is a bit to spendy for my paper punching, and blowing up plastic jugs of water. Though for a dramatic effect a 3 litre soda bottle full of water, and a 55 Grain V-Max will make a huge splash.

Nathan · January 7, 2012, 08:25 AM

For what?

lockinload · January 7, 2012, 08:54 AM

Just as we keep our carries loaded with some hollow points for that "special" moment. This would be a nice round to have loaded in a few magazines for circumstances that may require an exclamation point. Time to see if Barnes sells the bullet by itself.

lockinload · January 7, 2012, 08:58 AM

I just found the bullet at PV for the same price as the factory round. $24.50 per 50. Yikes

lockinload · January 7, 2012, 09:01 AM

My bad... I just realized the OPs post was for a box of bullets and not factory rounds.

Servant · January 7, 2012, 12:49 PM

I'm looking at them for terminal ballistics. My barrel is 1:9 twist. Looking for a great bullet to take down a 200# unfriendly critter.

603Country · January 7, 2012, 01:08 PM

If you don't go with the Barnes bullet, the 60 gr Nosler Partition or the 65 gr Sierra Gameking should do just fine for you.

Brian Pfleuger · January 7, 2012, 01:10 PM

With a 24" barrel starting at around 2,700fps and max loads of 2900, those bullets would be marginally stable with a 1:9 twist.

If I were hunting deer with a 223, it would be with 55gr tsx bullets. They can be pushed to almost 3200fps and around 1200 ft/lbs at the muzzle.

Servant · January 7, 2012, 01:16 PM

My weapon seems to shoot the 62grain bullets more accurate than the 55 grains, which is why I was looking at going further. So, weight aside, you have experience with them that they performed well at the end of travel?

Brian Pfleuger · January 7, 2012, 01:35 PM

The 110gr 7mm performed exactly as expected (and hoped) on the deer. Unfortunately, samples of one are notoriously unreliably. I don't really expect any less though, since many people have used them and they are almost universally held in high regard.

You have to remember that a 70gr all copper bullet is longer than a 70gr copper jacket, lead core bullet. Even if your barrel is 24", you're going to be on the edge of stability. If it's under 24", I'd be surprised if you got enough speed but it might be that your gun will stabilize them fine. The worst you're out is about $35 worth of ammo and some time.

Servant · January 7, 2012, 02:22 PM

yea, I have no experience with copper bullets at all, so trial and error. Always looking for the bigger and better thing

FrankenMauser · January 7, 2012, 06:20 PM

If it were me, loading .223 Remington (you haven't specified), I would use a 53-62 gr version.

The 70 gr TSX will be about as long as an 80+ grain bullet of standard construction (cup-and-core). It is length, not weight, that has the most affect on stability. Not many barrels can handle an 80+ grain 'class' bullet with a 1:9" twist.

If you just want to see if it will shoot heavier bullets, you should stick with a standard bullet (and run the TSX tests separately). In that case, I would start with some bullets in the 68-75 gr range.

In my opinion, the increase in weight from 62-70 grains won't get you much in the way of "killing power", either. You're better off with an accurate and predictable 60 grain bullet, than an unpredictable and unstable 70 gr bullet.

Servant · January 7, 2012, 06:41 PM

So your saying the copper bullets are longer? In that case I will probably go with the 62grain bullet. This bullet, regardless of length, is what I was really interested in, I have never seen what they can do.

603Country · January 7, 2012, 08:36 PM

I'm with Frankenmauser. The 60 gr Nosler Partition would be all you'll ever need for a coyote or big pig or small deer. Since my rifle didn't shoot that 60 gr bullet too well (Ok, but not great), I followed advice on this forum and went to the 65 gr Sierra Gameking. My 1 in 9 twist Ruger loves that bullet. I also have some 55 gr Gamekings, but haven't tried them yet. And I should mention that the 65 grain Sierra has a similar velocity and BC to the bullet I shoot in the 270, so flight path is easy for me to anticipate. No, it's not the same BC, but close enough.

Servant · January 7, 2012, 08:59 PM

One other factor is my barrel length (should have done mentioned it, sorry) which is 16". Know that, although it would be nice, my #1 goal is not to put them through 1 hole of paper @ 1000 meters, it is for the best terminal velocity I can get. And I regularly shoot @ 200 yards for practice, and distances in between. (ducks his head after typing this in anticipation of s###t thrown for not saying something earlier). Also, this is not a bolt weapon, but an AR, and I don't mean Arkansas.

A_Gamehog · January 8, 2012, 02:33 PM

As usual some good advise by FrankenMauser, and peetzakilla

Quote:

The 70 gr TSX will be about as long as an 80+ grain bullet of standard construction (cup-and-core). It is length, not weight, that has the most affect on stability. Not many barrels can handle an 80+ grain 'class' bullet with a 1:9" twist.

Many factors contribute to a good stable bullet and success,

Elevation
Bullet speed (Charge weight)
Bullet length
Barrel length
Barrel twist

With a 16" barrel and a long for weight solid copper bullet you are marginal.
What works for me @ 4500ft elevation with a 24" barrel won't work for you.

thallub · January 8, 2012, 04:55 PM

i've killed a couple dozen wild hogs using the 53 grain TSX in my .223 rifles. Some of those hogs weighed over 250 pounds. My shots are placed very carefully with the intention of dropping the hog DRT.

Servant · January 8, 2012, 06:15 PM

Well, if they will take care of a hog that size, they will handle what I am looking for. Did you head shot it or go for the vitals (through all that cartridge)?

Thank you all for your input, I do listen well. Could you please school me up, or point me in the direction to learn, on how to figure the barrel length to bullet weight/length? I do realize that a longer the barrel (up to a certain point) will allow the pressure to push the bullet faster.

Let's assume apples to apples: semi-auto, 1:9 twist, within same altitude/humidity, etc.--All things equal except barrel length, one being a 16" barrel, the second being a 20" barrel, and the third being a 24" barrel, using the same type bullet, same manufacturer, and SAME POWDER AND LOAD, what differences would the barrel length cause to happen?

Also, is it not true that a larger bullet, of the same caliber/type, ect. would have a larger effect on the target? I am thinking that although the transfer of energy would be the same, the larger bullet would have more energy to transfer, which would = greater terminal effect. I do realize that in order for this to be so, the larger bullet would have to be loaded hotter than the smaller in order to gain = PSI, or more, to attain the same rate of speed. Is this wrong?

I know that is allot of questions rolled into one post, but please be patient with me and fill in the holes. I probably know just enough to waist allot of money!!

, Thank you ahead of time for answering these questions. God bless.

A_Gamehog · January 8, 2012, 11:38 PM

Of all the .223's I have owned, they are all 24-26" rifles. 3 AR-15's and 3 .223 bolt guns. So my experiences won't help you. I don't encourage you to shoot
game with a .223 larger than 75 lbs. It's just me and I have seen many wounded animals (deer) in my 45+ years of hunting. Barnes does make a great bullet though, I have used them in every rifle I have owned.

Greenhill calculator link http://www.z-hat.com/twistrate.htm

You can use the 62's with a hot load of R-15 or Varget with thick

primers like rem 7-1/2 or CCI 450's. Winchester brass usually holds the most

powder. Start low and work up. You can't use the 70's as they did not work well for me unless I used a really hot load and was at 5,000+ ft elevation. Sometimes rifles are built and stamped with 1-9 but if you run a tight rod and patch and accurately count the revolutions it may be 1-8.5 or even 1-9.5. Button rifled or hammer forged for example. I never shot a 16" rifle but it should do well with 40-69 grain bullets of lead and copper construction. The 60 grain V-Max bullets would be your best bet for Varmints.

Servant · January 9, 2012, 12:02 AM

Gamehog, not for deer, but for sd. Where I live my dirty 30 does just fine in the deer woods for me.

Bamashooter · January 9, 2012, 03:27 AM

The 62gr. Barnes TSX shoots just fine with a 1:9 twist. I broke down and tried some just before christmas. I used Tac powder and an OAL of 2.26''. I havent shot anything with them yet but paper but bought them for deer and coyote. I reload the sierra 65gr. as well and can say its a fine bullet if any other but the barnes interest's you. Barnes is all copper giving it an advantage over other bullets.

January 6, 2012, 07:20 PM	#2
Roughedge Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2011 Location: Monroe,NC Posts: 669	As are all Barnes bullets the are great. I load them as a coyote round. Hard hitting and retain almost all therfe weight. __________________ The man that die's with the most stuff win's!

January 6, 2012, 08:34 PM	#3
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	Not in 223 but I use the 110gr TTSX in my 7mm-08 Encore handgun. Fantastic bullet. Accuracy is as good as any. I've only shot one deer but it was BANG!, Flop! Dead before his feet hit the ground again. I notice that they recommend 1:8 twist or better in 223. __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

January 7, 2012, 02:03 AM	#4
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2008 Location: In the valley above the plain Posts: 13,427	Why are you looking at the 70 grain version? Your rate of twist? Desired weight range? Assumed increase in terminal performance? Neither of us has taken big game with them, but Cornbush and I have both used the 53 gr TSX FB. (.220 Swift for me. .223 Rem for Cornbush.) __________________ Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.

January 7, 2012, 05:57 AM	#5
m&p45acp10+1 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2009 Location: Central Texas Posts: 3,930	I still have not been able to convince myself to drop enough coin to buy any of them. It is a bit to spendy for my paper punching, and blowing up plastic jugs of water. Though for a dramatic effect a 3 litre soda bottle full of water, and a 55 Grain V-Max will make a huge splash. __________________ No matter how many times you do it and nothing happens it only takes something going wrong one time to kill you.

January 7, 2012, 12:49 PM	#10
Servant Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2011 Location: Louisiana Posts: 116	I'm looking at them for terminal ballistics. My barrel is 1:9 twist. Looking for a great bullet to take down a 200# unfriendly critter. __________________ "If you want to lead, you must first learn to serve, for the 1st shall be last and the last shall be first." If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch. Lead, follow, or get out of the way!

January 6, 2012, 06:48 PM	#1
Servant Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2011 Location: Louisiana Posts: 116	Anyone ever try these: .223 Barnes® Triple-Shock® X-Bullet __________________ "If you want to lead, you must first learn to serve, for the 1st shall be last and the last shall be first." If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch. Lead, follow, or get out of the way!

January 7, 2012, 08:25 AM	#6
Nathan Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2001 Posts: 6,334	For what?

January 7, 2012, 08:54 AM	#7
lockinload Member Join Date: November 30, 2011 Posts: 91	Just as we keep our carries loaded with some hollow points for that "special" moment. This would be a nice round to have loaded in a few magazines for circumstances that may require an exclamation point. Time to see if Barnes sells the bullet by itself.

January 7, 2012, 08:58 AM	#8
lockinload Member Join Date: November 30, 2011 Posts: 91	I just found the bullet at PV for the same price as the factory round. $24.50 per 50. Yikes

January 7, 2012, 09:01 AM	#9
lockinload Member Join Date: November 30, 2011 Posts: 91	My bad... I just realized the OPs post was for a box of bullets and not factory rounds.

January 7, 2012, 01:08 PM	#11
603Country Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2011 Location: Thornton, Texas Posts: 3,998	If you don't go with the Barnes bullet, the 60 gr Nosler Partition or the 65 gr Sierra Gameking should do just fine for you.

January 7, 2012, 01:10 PM	#12
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	With a 24" barrel starting at around 2,700fps and max loads of 2900, those bullets would be marginally stable with a 1:9 twist. If I were hunting deer with a 223, it would be with 55gr tsx bullets. They can be pushed to almost 3200fps and around 1200 ft/lbs at the muzzle. __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

January 7, 2012, 01:16 PM	#13
Servant Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2011 Location: Louisiana Posts: 116	My weapon seems to shoot the 62grain bullets more accurate than the 55 grains, which is why I was looking at going further. So, weight aside, you have experience with them that they performed well at the end of travel? __________________ "If you want to lead, you must first learn to serve, for the 1st shall be last and the last shall be first." If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch. Lead, follow, or get out of the way!

January 7, 2012, 01:35 PM	#14
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	The 110gr 7mm performed exactly as expected (and hoped) on the deer. Unfortunately, samples of one are notoriously unreliably. I don't really expect any less though, since many people have used them and they are almost universally held in high regard. You have to remember that a 70gr all copper bullet is longer than a 70gr copper jacket, lead core bullet. Even if your barrel is 24", you're going to be on the edge of stability. If it's under 24", I'd be surprised if you got enough speed but it might be that your gun will stabilize them fine. The worst you're out is about $35 worth of ammo and some time. __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

January 7, 2012, 02:22 PM	#15
Servant Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2011 Location: Louisiana Posts: 116	yea, I have no experience with copper bullets at all, so trial and error. Always looking for the bigger and better thing __________________ "If you want to lead, you must first learn to serve, for the 1st shall be last and the last shall be first." If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch. Lead, follow, or get out of the way!

January 7, 2012, 06:20 PM	#16
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2008 Location: In the valley above the plain Posts: 13,427	If it were me, loading .223 Remington (you haven't specified), I would use a 53-62 gr version. The 70 gr TSX will be about as long as an 80+ grain bullet of standard construction (cup-and-core). It is length, not weight, that has the most affect on stability. Not many barrels can handle an 80+ grain 'class' bullet with a 1:9" twist. If you just want to see if it will shoot heavier bullets, you should stick with a standard bullet (and run the TSX tests separately). In that case, I would start with some bullets in the 68-75 gr range. In my opinion, the increase in weight from 62-70 grains won't get you much in the way of "killing power", either. You're better off with an accurate and predictable 60 grain bullet, than an unpredictable and unstable 70 gr bullet. __________________ Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.

January 7, 2012, 06:41 PM	#17
Servant Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2011 Location: Louisiana Posts: 116	So your saying the copper bullets are longer? In that case I will probably go with the 62grain bullet. This bullet, regardless of length, is what I was really interested in, I have never seen what they can do. __________________ "If you want to lead, you must first learn to serve, for the 1st shall be last and the last shall be first." If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch. Lead, follow, or get out of the way!

January 7, 2012, 08:36 PM	#18
603Country Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2011 Location: Thornton, Texas Posts: 3,998	I'm with Frankenmauser. The 60 gr Nosler Partition would be all you'll ever need for a coyote or big pig or small deer. Since my rifle didn't shoot that 60 gr bullet too well (Ok, but not great), I followed advice on this forum and went to the 65 gr Sierra Gameking. My 1 in 9 twist Ruger loves that bullet. I also have some 55 gr Gamekings, but haven't tried them yet. And I should mention that the 65 grain Sierra has a similar velocity and BC to the bullet I shoot in the 270, so flight path is easy for me to anticipate. No, it's not the same BC, but close enough.

January 7, 2012, 08:59 PM	#19
Servant Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2011 Location: Louisiana Posts: 116	One other factor is my barrel length (should have done mentioned it, sorry) which is 16". Know that, although it would be nice, my #1 goal is not to put them through 1 hole of paper @ 1000 meters, it is for the best terminal velocity I can get. And I regularly shoot @ 200 yards for practice, and distances in between. (ducks his head after typing this in anticipation of s###t thrown for not saying something earlier). Also, this is not a bolt weapon, but an AR, and I don't mean Arkansas. __________________ "If you want to lead, you must first learn to serve, for the 1st shall be last and the last shall be first." If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch. Lead, follow, or get out of the way!

January 8, 2012, 04:55 PM	#21
thallub Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2007 Location: South Western OK Posts: 3,112	i've killed a couple dozen wild hogs using the 53 grain TSX in my .223 rifles. Some of those hogs weighed over 250 pounds. My shots are placed very carefully with the intention of dropping the hog DRT.

January 8, 2012, 06:15 PM	#22
Servant Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2011 Location: Louisiana Posts: 116	Well, if they will take care of a hog that size, they will handle what I am looking for. Did you head shot it or go for the vitals (through all that cartridge)? Thank you all for your input, I do listen well. Could you please school me up, or point me in the direction to learn, on how to figure the barrel length to bullet weight/length? I do realize that a longer the barrel (up to a certain point) will allow the pressure to push the bullet faster. Let's assume apples to apples: semi-auto, 1:9 twist, within same altitude/humidity, etc.--All things equal except barrel length, one being a 16" barrel, the second being a 20" barrel, and the third being a 24" barrel, using the same type bullet, same manufacturer, and SAME POWDER AND LOAD, what differences would the barrel length cause to happen? Also, is it not true that a larger bullet, of the same caliber/type, ect. would have a larger effect on the target? I am thinking that although the transfer of energy would be the same, the larger bullet would have more energy to transfer, which would = greater terminal effect. I do realize that in order for this to be so, the larger bullet would have to be loaded hotter than the smaller in order to gain = PSI, or more, to attain the same rate of speed. Is this wrong? I know that is allot of questions rolled into one post, but please be patient with me and fill in the holes. I probably know just enough to waist allot of money!! , Thank you ahead of time for answering these questions. God bless. __________________ "If you want to lead, you must first learn to serve, for the 1st shall be last and the last shall be first." If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch. Lead, follow, or get out of the way!

January 8, 2012, 11:38 PM	#23
A_Gamehog Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2009 Location: Central Oregun Posts: 563	Of all the .223's I have owned, they are all 24-26" rifles. 3 AR-15's and 3 .223 bolt guns. So my experiences won't help you. I don't encourage you to shoot game with a .223 larger than 75 lbs. It's just me and I have seen many wounded animals (deer) in my 45+ years of hunting. Barnes does make a great bullet though, I have used them in every rifle I have owned. Greenhill calculator link http://www.z-hat.com/twistrate.htm You can use the 62's with a hot load of R-15 or Varget with thick primers like rem 7-1/2 or CCI 450's. Winchester brass usually holds the most powder. Start low and work up. You can't use the 70's as they did not work well for me unless I used a really hot load and was at 5,000+ ft elevation. Sometimes rifles are built and stamped with 1-9 but if you run a tight rod and patch and accurately count the revolutions it may be 1-8.5 or even 1-9.5. Button rifled or hammer forged for example. I never shot a 16" rifle but it should do well with 40-69 grain bullets of lead and copper construction. The 60 grain V-Max bullets would be your best bet for Varmints. __________________ "Happiness is knowing the Barred Owl is Eating the Spotted Owl and environmentalists are watching Nature take it's course"

January 9, 2012, 12:02 AM	#24
Servant Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2011 Location: Louisiana Posts: 116	Gamehog, not for deer, but for sd. Where I live my dirty 30 does just fine in the deer woods for me. __________________ "If you want to lead, you must first learn to serve, for the 1st shall be last and the last shall be first." If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch. Lead, follow, or get out of the way!

January 9, 2012, 03:27 AM	#25
Bamashooter Senior Member Join Date: March 12, 2010 Posts: 1,860	The 62gr. Barnes TSX shoots just fine with a 1:9 twist. I broke down and tried some just before christmas. I used Tac powder and an OAL of 2.26''. I havent shot anything with them yet but paper but bought them for deer and coyote. I reload the sierra 65gr. as well and can say its a fine bullet if any other but the barnes interest's you. Barnes is all copper giving it an advantage over other bullets.