Powder for .45 acp

[BerettaPx4]

Quote
Kevin Rohrer
Beretta: do any manuals have load data for AutoComp?

You can get data from Hodgdons website (hodgdon.com)or their lastest reloading magazine. I bought their 2012 reloading magazine on the newsstand. The data is also listed in the new "Modern Reloading" book by Richard Lee. I like the Lee book because it lists the cubic centimeters of the starting loads. With this I can see which load fills the case the best. Autucomp is one of the best metering powders that I've used. As a test I measured 50 loads, and each was right on. I think you'll be hearing more about this powder as it catches on with shooters.
__________________

[Slamfire]

Unique is an outstanding powder for the M1911. It has been used for decades in the 45ACP.

All my loads are thrown, I have not found the better metering of ball powders to give tighter velocity standard deviations or extreme spreads. This is another example of the illusion that precision means control. Unique and Bullseye work just as well, if not better, than ball powders, even though the varience in throw weights is higher.

However, my "standard load" is with Bullseye. I like to keep my velocities close to 800 fps as this is equal to the original 1910 loading.

You can compare my Bullseye loads with the Unique. I would not go higher than 6.0 grains Unique with a 230 LRN as the velocities and recoil were harder than I wanted.

230 gr LRN  4.5 grs Bullseye Mixed Brass WLP		
 OAL 1.250" taper crimp .469"

21-Jun-06 T = 97  °F
	
Ave Vel = 805.2		
Std Dev =11.4		
ES=54.08		
High=836.9		 
Low=782.8		 
 N =32

230 gr FMJ (R-P) 5.0 grs Bullseye 99' & 2005 mixed lot Mixed Brass WLP (brass)  OAL 1.265"	taper crimp .469"

12-Dec-11	 T= 53  °F
					
Ave Vel =	793.5				
Std Dev =	18.92				
ES =	61.99				
High = 	817.4				
Low =	755.4				
N =	16				



230 LRN Valiant 5.5 grs Unique lot UN331 1989 Mixed brass WLP (brass)
OAL 1.250" taper crimped 0.469"
	
16-May-09	 high 83  °F
		
Ave Vel =	827.4				
Std Dev =	17.63	 	 		 
ES =	85.68				
High = 	871.6				
Low =	785.9				
N =	31				
				
					
230 LRN Valiant 6.0 grs Unique lot 6/21/1998 Mixed brass WLP (nickle)	
16-May-09	 high 83  °F		OAL 1.250" taper crimped 0.469"

Ave Vel =	885				
Std Dev =	16.79	 	 		 
ES =	67.26				
High = 	917.8				
Low =	850.5				
N =	30				
			
accurate lots recoil15' foot ejection					
					
						
						
230 LRN  6.5 grs Unique lot UN387 6/21/93 Mixed brass WLP 		
OAL 1.250" taper crimped 0.469	 	"		
18-Mar-07 T = 62 °F						
						
Ave Vel =	926.4					
Std Dev =	16.64					
ES	71.16					
High	963.4					
Low	892.3					
N =	32				
light leading accurate centered hard recoil20 foot ejection	

[FM12]

Bullseye is your friend for .45acp. Thanks me later.

[rclark]

Bullseye is your friend for .45acp

I don't shoot .45ACP in bottom feeders, but have been testing .45ACP loads with different powders in one of my .45 flattop convertibles. So far, Bullseye has turned in the best results. Red Dot is right there too. W-231 is not to far behind. Unique and Universal didn't do so well over the chrono at the levels I was testing. While they work, there are better powders for consistency. Testing was with 200g lead TC .451 type bullets. I'll be using Bullseye (or Red Dot) from now on in .45ACP.

Here were my chrono runs from a 5 1/2" barrel BH:

.45 ACP, 5.0g Bullseye, 200g TC, CCI-300, 911fps, 9 SD, 31 ES, 29 Shots

.45 ACP, 4.5g Red Dot, 200g TC, CCI-300, 936fps, 14 SD, 40 ES, 17 Shots

[Jammer Six]

What is a "bottom feeder" or a "flattop"?

Slamfire, you record everything, I see.

What is the purpose of such careful recording when you're using mixed brass?

[nate45]

I like HS6 and Power Pistol, for 9mm Luger and .45 ACP. They meter better and burn way cleaner than the older powders.

Back when the .45 was king of IPSC

Powders are all about the same price now, but back when you could get 4-8 pounds of Red Dot significantly cheaper I used 5.6 grains and the 200 grain SWC to make major. Plus I used it for loading shotgun shells. Talk about, smokey and dirty.

[totaldla]

Originally Posted by slamfire

While I may not agree with your love of Unique, I do like your old Clack Kimber Classic. Love that grip tape too! And like most, you've shot all the finish off of it Good, no-nonsense pistol.

I ended up Duracoating mine. And I use grip tape a lot.

[rclark]

What is a "bottom feeder" or a "flattop"?

Bottom Feeder is slang for a semi-auto (magazines are inserted into the bottom of grip and bullets feed up into the chamber...) .

The 'Flattop' is a term used for Ruger revolvers that have a clean 'flat top' on the cylinder frame (without the protective sight ears on current NM revolvers). Flattops were re-introduced with the 50th Anniversary revolvers (.357 and .44Mag), the .44Spec revolvers, and now the .45 Convertibles. That is it in a nutshell without going into the history of Ruger Revolvers or frame sizes here... Some 'reading' material :
.45 Flattop Convertible
.44Spec Flattop
.44Mag Flattop
.44Mag Super Blackhawk history

[davesretired1]

I got talked into trying Unique powder by those who sang it's praises. I had been playing around with Winchester WST and WSF for my loads with a 200gr Hornady XTP bullet. Loved the powders! Clean shooting, very accurate ( out of a Glock 30 ), and metered very well. But for the same reason I have to try a different putter every other year, I decided to try Unique ( grass is always greener don't ya know ) for my move to 230gr FMJ.

Long story short, don't like it. I use a Dillon 550 to reload. I have both a beam balance and digital scale ( both Dillon ). Powder charges would vary +/- .3 grs at times. Biggest difference was when I chrono'd them ( I have two chronos and they backed each other up ). I'm used to seeing ES's of 10-30 fps with my .38 super, and .45/200 loads. With the 230 FMJ and Unique at various loads of 5.6, 5.8, 6.2, and 6.4 I was seeing ES's of 135 fps. for a 5 shot string. No disrespect to those of you who like Unique, but I went back to WSF.

[Hawg]

I like W231.

[rclark]

I said w-231 was behind my favorite loads ... it was waaaay behind it turns out after looking at my spreadsheet. FWIW, Here were my results. Never explored W-231 any further as anything above 50 ES or 20 SD is not exceptable to me.

.45 ACP, 6.1g W-231, 200g XTP, CCI-300, 931fps, 33 SD, 103 ES, 23 Shots
.45 ACP, 5.0g Unique, 200g TC, CCI-300, 835fps, 27 SD, 90 ES, 22 Shots
.45 ACP, 6.0g Unique, 200g TC, CCI-300, 983fps, 23 SD, 83 ES, 28 Shots
.45 ACP, 5.0g Universal, 200g TC, CCI-300, 727fps, 34 SD, 144 ES, 30 Shots

[zxcvbob]

RClark, did you ever try Red Dot or Promo?

Promo usually gives me the best accuracy of any powder, even though I'm throwing it with a powder measure and it measures like corn flakes. Of course, that could be all in my head -- shooting is mostly mental and I can psyche myself out sometimes

[rclark]

Yes I did try Red Dot . I like it. See above post #29 Bullseye is your friend!

[Jammer Six]

So, after rejecting on the basis of a number, you don't actually know if it was accurate or not?

[oldreloader]

My favorite 45 ACP powders are Bullseye and AA#5. I have used HP38 with good luck too.My favorite load is 5 gr BE with a 200 gr SWC or RNFP lead bullet.

[zxcvbob]

International Clays is a good powder if you keep it under 20000 psi. (I use it in several calibers, but not .45 ACP cuz I don't load that one.) You should be able to get 800+ fps from a 230 grain bullet at well under 20000 psi if you have at least a 4" barrel, and it's easy to measure and burns cleanly without a lot of smoke.

[rclark]

after rejecting on the basis of a number, you don't actually know if it was accurate or not?

If the velocity isn't consistant, you are not going to hit the same place on the target (at 5 yards maybe, but not at 25, 50, 75 yards)... Any change in velocity of same bullet weight is going to affect POI. Simple as that. Lower the 'numbers' the better the groups should be 'in theory'. That is why my rule of thumb (a goal if you will) is less than 20 SD and less than 50fps ES for a load with a string of at least 15 shots (a load worth exploring). Then later without the chrono distraction shoot the promising load (or loads) for accuracy tests. The gun still has it's say on accuracy, but at least one variable is eliminated. I had marked in my log that the Red Dot and Bullseye loads were accurate (with my gun) in .45 ACP. YMMV. The W-231 may work well with another bullet weight or shape just not the one I tested with or at a different powder charge. For example, in .45ACP, 6.0g of Unique had exceptable numbers for 230g HP Plated bullets, but didn't do so well with the 200g TC bullet.... It is all a game we play to find that 'perfect' combination and consistancy plays a big part. Same crimp, same seating depth, same weight bullet, primer (mag or regular, brand x, brand y), case capacity (brand), case tention, same powder drop, position sensitive, etc. all play a part in getting good accuracy and it shows up in the SD and ES numbers. Well that is my take on it anyway. None of the above matters if you are trying to shoot a pop can at 7 yards or big steel targets, but does matter out beyond 25 yards. and you still want to hit something.

[Slamfire]

Slamfire, you record everything, I see.

What is the purpose of such careful recording when you're using mixed brass?

Mostly because I am too lazy to sort handgun brass by headstamp. And I really don't think it matters that much for handguns. I have lots of data, I get excellent SD's and ES's with mixed brass.

I also believe that handguns are spitting distance things. Function is more important for me as I have proven time and again, in pistol matches, you can miss a 12" plate at seven yards when you are excited.

I have and will shoot mixed headstamp brass in rifles out to 300 yards. Done that thousands of times with my .223, 308 and 30-06. I shoot HM scores, seldom shoot HM standing at 200 yards but I occasionally do. At 600 and 1000, I use same headspace brass and same times reloaded. I think it makes a difference. For me, sight alignment, trigger pull, position, and wind call (I am a terrible wind judge) make the greatest difference at long range.

My F class buds who are National Champs, they believe everything makes a difference.

I do like your old Clack Kimber Classic. Love that grip tape too! And like most, you've shot all the finish off of it Good, no-nonsense pistol

Thanks, and it has less finish now than it did in that picture.