"Universal" .38 S&W load?

[Auto5]

It turns out that many of us have an old .38 S&W or two hanging around the back of the safe. I've always liked the look of the old concealed hammer break tops. One of my friends has his grandfather's I-frame Smith. Others in our group have assorted H&Rs, Iver Johnsons and "house brands" from the Sears or Montgomery Wards catalogs of years gone by. We thought it would be fun to haul them all out for a shoot.

Our reloading host has offered to put together sufficient ammo for the day, but we'd like to come up with a reduced load that is safe to shoot in all the old guns. Some date to the black/smokeless powder transition era and are not marked one way or another.

All of the guns are in sound mechanical shape. Load performance is not an issue, as this will pretty much be 10 yard max target and plinking. Should we stick with blackpowder loads to be safe, or is there a reduced load that wouldn't exceed the pressure of the blackpowder rounds?

Thanks in advance.

[BillM]

I won't recommend a load---but a pinch of Bullseye might be a
place to start. Here is some load data that's been on the net
for several years:

http://www.reloadammo.com/38sw.htm


You might also look at some of the black powder substitutes
which are easy clean up and non corrosive---I've played a bit
with Pyrodex P in the past, there are newer ones.
Another one to look at is TrailBoss. Bulky, low pressure.

The original load for the 38 S&W often used a 146 gr RN. I've
had good results for plinker loads using a 148 gr HBWC. Kind
of like a big pellet gun skirted projectile---It will blow out to fit
the bore. 38 S&W has a fairly wide range of bore diameters!
Don't try to push that bullet fast---it's soft lead and will lead up
the bore badly.

[reddog81]

I typically just use reduced loads rather than black powder for my S&W breaktops. The loads are going to depend on the powders and bullets your friend has available.

Since you are shooting Iver Johnson's, H&R's and other brands of questionable quality I'm not sure what the best option is. In my limited experiences I've noticed most S&W's from the black powder era are still functional while the other brands are much more likely to have timing problems, broken parts, and other conditions that would make me hesitant to shoot them.

[Clark]

15 years ago I shook loose the latch even the 3rd model Iver Johnson break top 38sw with 38 Super +P loads. That is when I could get them for $35.

Now I take it easy on them. A soft lead ball with 2 gr Unique or 1 gr of Bullseye. If the ball is not a lot bigger and needs to be swaged down, the put some wad in there.

32 s&w, cut the recipe in half.

If you want to get fancy, use these bullets
http://www.westernbullet.com/ly3150gr.html

[jdscholer]

I've two top-breaks, a 38, with hammer, and a 32 hammerless, (both Smiths). I shoot the 38 the most, and have settled on 2 gr. of BE or HP38 with a 125 gr. cast bullet. It gives much better than 10 yard accuracy and I can give a beer can Hell at 25 yards.

I advise keeping the main hinge and latch screws properly tightened, and it is one of my theories that many of these little revolvers were shot loose by shooting them with loose screws. (I've got a lot of theories my wife says)

Standard factory shells for these 38's was 146 gr. soft lead. .360 dia. I frankly have had good luck with my cast sized to .357, although I often use unsized bullets straight from the mold. jd

[Magnum Wheel Man]

I shoot a boat load of both 32 & 38 S&W guns of all eras...

1st off barrel & cylinder pitting, & bore & cylinder throats will not be the same for all guns...

I have 3 load levels that range from a pinch of Trailboss & a soft lead round ball, to a middle of the road shooting cartridge with a lighter weight cast bullet, to a "self defense load" that a couple of guns I carry occasionally for nostalgia have been prooven to handle, with only occasional practice...

if you're just wanting to have fun, I highly recommend the soft lead round balls dipped in Lee Alox, & lightly crimped into the case with a pinch ( or two, if your sure all guns are safe ) of Trailboss...

this is one of my BBQ guns... early S&W single action in 38 S&W, that the barrel was cut off when I bought it... was originally nickel, but was carried more than shot, as the mechanics were perfect, & there was litterally no nickel left

pics & more here...

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=551333

[Clark]

Magnum Wheel Man,

Your pictures bring out the fun aspect of revolvers.

[Magnum Wheel Man]

Thanks CLARK...

a good portion of my 38 S&W collection are Hopkins & Allen Safety Police revolvers, but I also have everything from US Revolvers ( one of Iver Johnson's built guns ) to the S&W guns... I also have a junky Sercret Service engraved 38 S&W ) The quality of the guns of this era, & caliber range from a 0 to a 10, so it can be hard to come up with a safe load for that range of quality, not even taking into account the differences in condition...

it's a good idea to slug the barrel & cylinder throats, & inspect the barrel & chambers for pitting, as excessive pitting can not only weaken the part, but excessive pitting in the barrel can increase pressures, due to restriction of the bullet, because of the rough bore

also I never use jacketed bullets in a top break, with light weight cast, or round balls being my prefered choices on bullets BTW... normal 38 S&W bullet diameter is slightly larger than the 38 Special... I usually use .358" cast, & have been getting decent short range accuracy loading the .358" light weight cast bullets

[Clark]

I have a couple swing out smiths in 38sw, but never seem to shoot them. I paid $109 and $75 for the other.

The little Colt police positive 38 S&W revolvers can be loaded to ~ 30kpsi with 9mm bullets and it has the same performance as a 9mm in tiny revolver. Great antique carry gun.

Those are strong.

But the IJ break tops with their tiny latch made out of a piece of sheet metal with a #5 screw going through a hole that stretches oblong... soft lead 2 gr of powder.

I know someone trapping coons at a feed mill that wants to shoot them in the brain with his 32sw instead of a 22. He sent a pic, and it is an Iver johnson 3rd model. Those latches are tougher, but I am trying to avoid working on Iver Johnsons, and work on good stuff, like Mausers.

So the guy is cutting down 32 S&W Long brass in the mill with a pilot.

[Clark]

Wait a minute, one of those is a break top.