June 10, 2013, 11:33 AM | #51 | |
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Korth Firearms?
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June 10, 2013, 11:41 AM | #52 | |
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Korth Firearms?
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June 10, 2013, 11:41 AM | #53 | ||
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Right up there with buying an expensive gun and then declaring, "it's too expensive to shoot". As I said above, they're too expensive NOT to shoot. Quote:
I actually feel the same way about Freedom Arms as I do Korth. Beautifully and precisely built but for the same reasons, they don't appeal to me. To me they're more akin to a precision surgical instrument. Whereas the thought of the custom Ruger I outlined above makes my mouth water. No right or wrong, just personal preference. |
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June 10, 2013, 12:26 PM | #54 |
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I'm a little surprised that people, when talking this kind of price and quality, would bash the looks, when for that money, the gun MUST have superior function and ergonomics, which supersedes "looks" by leaps and bounds. I personally expect "looks" to be more of a concern of a novice. I think the Python had a lot of sales due to its "looks" rather than its "superior" function. The Korth should feel great, balance well, shoot extremely well, be completely reliable, while being durable mechanically. All of that trumps looks. Sorry guys that place emphasis on "my XYZ looks cool" but that is the truth. Its kind of like a muscle car, a real enthusiast would be more proud of a 1969 COPO 427 Camaro (plain on outside, when original) vs a RS 1969 Camaro (stripes, hidden headlights and what not, flashy). Performance is the big concern.
I've always been intrigued by the Korth myself, esp the DA revolvers they make. Some other high quality revolvers have been brought up in this thread: the pre war New Service (or Shooting Master, which was the same thing, but a little fancier), and of course S&Ws, we could stay post war 5 screw or pre war for S&W. Here is my question, I suppose this is more for Tipoc or Bac1023, (or anyone who OWNS a Korth) the price tag of a Korth is at least 3x if not 5x to 6x more money than a vintage S&W or Colt. In your opinion, is it that much better than one of those vintage, hand fitted, high quality, American DA revolvers? I'm not implying anything either, its something I've always wondered.
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June 10, 2013, 12:55 PM | #55 | |
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Yes, looks are important and anyone who says different is lying. I'm not a teenager saying that I want an Glock because "it looks cool". I'm a 40yr old adult with refined taste saying that I'd rather have something that looks like the sixgun below than a Korth. I really don't care how well it functions, there's no way I'd spend that much on something I didn't find attractive. Same reason why I'm going to the added expense of ivory and carbona bluing, rather than stainless steel and micarta. Octagon instead of round. A hand-built, hand-finished custom Ruger instead of a hideous X-frame. Same reason why I hunt with a traditional, fancy maple, browned finish muzzleloader instead of a stainless synthetic inline. Same reason why I shoot traditional leverguns instead of stainless synthetic boltguns. Probably all the same reasons you collect older S&W's instead of new ones. So please, don't waste my time with this "looks don't matter" crap. Boge Quinn of Gunblast.com fame has a sixgun that is very similar to what I'm talking about. Although mine will have adjustable sights and slightly different finishes. Aren't you the same guy that said this was the sexiest gun? Sorry but I outgrew that nonsense years ago. |
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June 10, 2013, 01:34 PM | #56 | |||
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Second, this is an internet message board. Before you brag to us (esp me) about the size of your collection, make sure its impressive, to everyone. I am not impressed by 48 revolvers, nor am I impressed by $60,000 worth of firearms. Ask yourself why might that be? Quote:
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In the Korth line, regarding the goal of their product, their company philosophy, etc, I would say looks are not a chief concern, nor should they be. I mean for one, it looks like a DA revolver, which some differences but none are as pronounced as a Chiappa Rhino. If they went over board on looks, and under valued performance, their revolvers would not sell for this money. Why? Because people want a performance difference when the MSRP is 5x what a S&W or Ruger retails for. In closing, I don't think you understood my exact point. Perhaps now you don't either. IMO, your "experience" level should allow you to understand my point(s) regarding Korth.
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June 10, 2013, 01:36 PM | #57 |
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I said that about Glock because at the time, I thought tacticool was neat. Since then, I've changed a lot, purchased a lot, and educated myself. I'd like to hear and see every statement you've made about firearms. I'm pretty sure I wound find many of them to be foolish, snobbish, etc. You posting that actually takes away from your opinion, not that it could afford to be any less important.
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June 10, 2013, 01:38 PM | #58 |
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I think talking about a gun's looks is totally fair game, especially in the case of the gun in question, a Korth revolver. At a certain point, you reach a tier where questions of "does it work? is it reliable?" are just assumed. Same thing with Glocks, H&Ks, SIGS, although they're obviously in a different ballpark. They all work nearly 100% of the time, so why not talk about their appearance?
This kind of goes hand in hand with some of the "reverse snob" attitude I was talking about earlier, to the point where it's another forums cliche. Someone always pipes up to add "heh, I don't care how my guns look, they're just tools for getting work done, I'm no sissy." There's a lot to enjoy and appreciate in the world of firearms, from collecting to engineering to shooting, and the hurf-durf "guns are only tools" types who don't understand that get under my skin. (There are plenty of "guns are tools" folks who do appreciate that other people are into other things, and that's good, not who I'm talking about.) I personally think Korths are beautiful revolvers, with a design clearly taking cues from the established Beauty Queen, the Colt Python. They are as reliable as any other reliable revolver, are better made than basically everything, more accurate than anyone on this forum, so what's left to discuss? Why not looks? Winchester's question about "are they really worth it?" is exactly why I made a Youtube review video, it's by far the most frequent question I hear about these guns. My take: Are they worth 3x a 50s Python, or 5x a 5-screw S&W? Depends on what you value. I think a lot of the extra price is made up for in exclusivity more than anything, so if that is appealing to you, then certainly. I wouldn't say they are 3x better made than an old Python, though. They are almost on the same plane. They are all basically equals at the range, too. To help illustrate, I came up with a scale of revolvers for that video. From 0 to 10, I'd say: Röhm - 0 (worst a revolver can be and still be a revolver) Taurus - 4 New S&W - 6 Pre-60s S&W - 8.5-9 50s Python - 9 Manurhin MR73 - 9.5 Korth - 10 (the best a revolver can be, all things considered) The Korth is as good as it gets, but other premium revolvers are so close that you're not paying 3x more for better accuracy or build quality at that point as much as exclusivity. The Korths are made of ridiculously strong materials, though, so strength is another thing you're paying for. I'd hate to see a S&W or Python after 50,000 rounds of 357. |
June 10, 2013, 01:47 PM | #59 | |
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You even said they are the top. So you think its wise to dismiss a perfect 10 revolver, because some other DA (which is not as good, based on your rating) looks better? I'm not saying "guns are tools" - I am a collector, and a collector of revolvers. I am simply saying you don't buy a Camaro because it looks better than a Lambo. Is it that hard to understand?
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June 10, 2013, 02:01 PM | #60 | |
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June 10, 2013, 02:03 PM | #61 | |||||
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Everything about a revolver is fair game. I won't buy certain guns because I don't like the style of front sight they come with. Some of these are easily corrected with a little gunsmith help, some are not. When you've REALLY been around the block a few times you obsess about the smallest details. Which is why I'm satisfied with fewer and fewer factory guns but own more and more customs. If utility and function were the only requirements, we'd all be shooting Glocks but for most of us, there are other factors involved. I don't know why we expect good looks out of an $800 S&W but not a Korth that costs several thousand dollars. When you're paying that much for a single gun, you should DEMAND both. Quote:
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So are you saying you'd spend $5000-$10,000 for a revolver that you didn't love everything about??? Tell us another lie. |
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June 10, 2013, 02:06 PM | #62 | |
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I started typing my admittedly long-winded response before you (Winchester) posted your rebuttals to newfrontier, so I didn't have that to go on.
Either way, I do think that the types who are shopping for Korths are going to want them to be attractive guns. They are meant to be engineering marvels, too, stronger and better made than anything else, but they also strive to be the jewel-like centerpiece of any gun collection. If their guns were flawlessly made and perfectly accurate, but looked ugly, I don't think their target audience would buy them. Speaking for myself, I know I wouldn't. It's the reason I don't have much interest in Freedom Arms, which, by all accounts are wonderfully constructed - I just don't dig the styling. To work with your car analogy, if a Lambo looked like a Yugo, but somehow maintained the supercar performance and price, would anyone buy them? Some, for sure, but most would just go with a pretty Ferrari instead. You expect the whole package in Ferraris, Lambos, etc., because of the price premium. With a Korth, because of the premium, you expect a gun that functions perfectly AND nails it in the looks department. If you think the Korth misses that mark and is ugly, it's fine to discuss why or how. That said, it's entirely possible I'm typing a lot of words while missing your point. Edit: Quote:
Last edited by lifesizepotato; June 10, 2013 at 02:21 PM. |
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June 10, 2013, 02:26 PM | #63 |
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Korth Firearms?
The thing about the car analogy is, you can have "true enthusiast" on both sides. A guy with limited funds may be most concerned with the function of his muscle car, but someone wealthy may want that function and performance and a certain look and prestige. That is why you have $250,000- $500,000 sports cars. They are not just about the looks and they are not just about the performance. They are about both, and more power to those that can enjoy it. If I could afford to carry a Korth around in a Ferrari F12berlinetta, I would
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June 10, 2013, 02:36 PM | #64 |
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Very true and the measure of a "true enthusiast" is usually not in dollars. It's our passion that makes us enthusiasts, not the dollars spent. By the same token, lots of dollars spent does not necessarily make it conspicuous consumption. Bottom line, we really should try not to judge people.
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June 10, 2013, 02:50 PM | #65 | ||||||
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Winchester 73, the TFL user that won the west Last edited by Winchester_73; June 10, 2013 at 02:56 PM. |
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June 10, 2013, 03:27 PM | #66 | |||
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For the record, I don't find the Korth revolver to be ugly. I just don't think it's beautiful enough to me to pay $5000 - $10,000 for one. This is not meant as a slight to Korth of their owners. It's strictly a matter of personal preference. If I'm spending thousands on a sixgun, it has to look like the one above or this: |
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June 10, 2013, 04:05 PM | #67 | |||
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And one last thing, 48 guns and $60,000 does mean you have a ton of experience, and experience itself does not mean you know more than someone with less experience, it means you should. There is a reason you cited your experience in that way, and a reason you cited how much you are spending on a custom Ruger. You can ponder on that yourself.
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Winchester 73, the TFL user that won the west Last edited by Winchester_73; June 10, 2013 at 04:49 PM. |
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June 10, 2013, 04:15 PM | #68 | |||||
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June 10, 2013, 04:29 PM | #69 | |
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For the record, the Camaro vs Lambo (assuming new vs new, not vintage) was an analogy was to show that the Lambo is better in nearly every way, and so the Camaro should not be considered over a Lambo, nor should it be in the same conversation unless one does not care about the Lambo's superior traits. If the Camaro "looks better" and the person chose the Camaro over the Lambo, then that person should not have a Lambo at all, because everything the Lambo is about would be wasted on that person anyways. The Lambo is in a different class, and the "looks" you see are there for reasons other than "looks."
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June 10, 2013, 04:59 PM | #70 |
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Very nice
I'm not one for engraved handguns, but I appreciate the work that goes into them. Besides that Bowen does some great custom Rugers. As for Ruger, I'm a big fan. However, I really prefer the old 3 screw style and I own several 3 screw Blackhawks and Super Blackhawks. I do own a couple New Model BHs as well. As for custom handguns, I use the 1911 as my platform. I'm fortunate enough to own some full custom models from several of the best smiths and builders in the world. I love every one of them. |
June 10, 2013, 05:23 PM | #71 |
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How often do long winded forum arguments make either party look good?
I'm sure you're both big-time expert collectors. One of you likes one thing, another likes another. As far as Korths go, I imagine - like all expensive things - they're worth it if you want one more than you want the money it costs to own one, and beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
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June 10, 2013, 06:10 PM | #72 | |||
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Last edited by newfrontier45; June 10, 2013 at 06:23 PM. |
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June 10, 2013, 07:06 PM | #73 |
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June 10, 2013, 07:08 PM | #74 | ||||
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An expert has 4 qualifications. That person is an expert because: 1) They know what they know 2) They know what they DO NOT know 3) They know the difference (between #1 and #2) 4) When they don't know, they know who to ask or where to get the info. I've always liked that definition of "expert." Quote:
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June 10, 2013, 07:14 PM | #75 | |
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I would never call myself an expert either and wouldn't respect anyone who did. There's a hell of a lot I don't know and haven't done and I recognize that. The experts are the ones that write the books, I just read them. |
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