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November 28, 2012, 07:14 PM | #101 | |
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November 28, 2012, 07:21 PM | #102 | |
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If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again . |
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November 28, 2012, 07:30 PM | #103 |
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Hows that old saying go "People are entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts" or something like that. Well, its a fact that all firearms fall under the classification of weapons. Stating otherwise won't change that fact. Its not just semantics, its not just opinion, its well documented and defined in law and the English language.
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November 28, 2012, 07:43 PM | #104 |
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Chemical Reaction Engine
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November 28, 2012, 07:45 PM | #105 |
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When you try to sanitize boom things by not calling them weapons, you are playing into the hands of antis. The 2nd Amend protects their use as weapons, not as tools or sporting instruments.
Bowling bowls have no constitutional protection. AR-15s are so deadly as are O/U shotguns that one should ban them - except that they are protected as weapons. If you want a hobby collect stamps or bowl. You don't take your bowling ball to the Aurora theatre. The Brits and Australian gun communities bought into sports and tried to protect their guns by evoking manly sports. They actually insulted American gun views and lost! Even the sporting uses of guns are derivative of their killing purpose. I only know of one tool use of a firearm. That is a special shotgun like gun used to blast scale off the inside of blast furnances. Thus, tools and sports are giving it up. Don't.
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November 28, 2012, 09:38 PM | #106 | ||
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If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again . |
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November 28, 2012, 09:57 PM | #107 |
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Arms are synonymous with weapons.
arms plural of arms (Noun) Noun: 1. Weapons and ammunition; armaments: "they were subjugated by force of arms". 2. Distinctive emblems or devices, forming the heraldic insignia of families, corporations, or countries. Synonyms: weapon - weaponry - arm - armament
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November 28, 2012, 11:46 PM | #108 |
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Weapon, firearm, sidearm, pistol... I tend to switch fairly freely between them. I've found myself using "sidearm" when using it on-duty, and "pistol" when talking about it off-duty. Otherwise I actually just refer to it by make. (I.e. "Let me grab my Sig" or "Yeah, my Glock is in the top drawer, next to the Walther")
I'm in the same boat as (apparently) several other members in that I did my training at Fort Sill, and it was DRILLED into my head that I was using a rifle, or a weapon, never a gun. Guns were for the Artillery and Navy types. |
November 29, 2012, 07:04 AM | #109 | |
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I'm amazed that we have a five page discussion on this. Unless it's loaded with rainbows and sunshine it's a weapon.
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November 29, 2012, 08:05 AM | #110 |
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Sheesh, what's in a name?
Five pages already of semantics and wordsmithing.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zA4LcsyczA8
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November 29, 2012, 09:24 AM | #111 |
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Here's something else to consider. The concealed carry permit in Arizona is called a Concealed Weapons Permit. If guns aren't weapons, does that mean this card only allows me to conceal a sword? Or a knife? Or a dagger or something?
No! It's purpose is to allow me to carry a gun to use in the defense of myself and my family. There you have a government entity called a gun what it is...a weapon. As has been said before, sanitizing the name of something (in this case, weapons) only helps the other side. It does nothing to help us. The constitution protects our right to bear arms (which has already been defined earlier in the thread as weapons and ammunition. If we call it something else, we're just asking for it to become even more controlled. "Oh, we're not taking away your weapons, we're just heavily regulating your sporting equipment because it's dangerous! There's precedent...remember when we (the CPSC) banned lawn darts?" I may call them many things, but the bottom line is, my guns are weapons. |
November 29, 2012, 09:59 AM | #112 |
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Ben Towe, Thanks for clearing that up for me. 1847 Walker Colts are cool weapons, used as clubs or otherwise! Thanks again.
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November 29, 2012, 10:51 AM | #113 |
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Suppose I could sign on to the concept of using my firearm as a weapon if need be.
TX calls it a CHL (concealed handgun license). Because that's all it is while its sitting on your hip. Just a handgun. When you draw it if attacked...then you are employing your handgun as a weapon for defense. My biggest issue is that we don't come off as aggressors and much of the language used is that aggressive language. Should we appear to the public as well armed for defense? Sure. This issue of saying if you want to modify our language being akin to other nations losing their gun rights trying to hide behind sporting and hunting is just a red herring. If we had some gun owners logo tying us all together...it could very well be a triangle with sides labeled (hunting-defense-sport). This isn't about pretending that firearms aren't tools by which we can perpetrate violence. My point is that we as a community/culture need to not appear as hostile. We need to appear and appeal to others as normal. Wanting to defend yourself and your loved ones is totally normal and nearly universal. (Note I said "wanting to", not willing to) So if we appear to the public as "that guy" you see at the range. Or "that guy" at the gun shop/show. And we speak in an aggressive language about what should be normal. Then we are marginalizing ourselves and our cause and for what to inflate our egos with some militaristic machismo? |
November 29, 2012, 11:17 AM | #114 |
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The OP is about finding better words to make your point and or arguement .
Maybe it just me but I'm not seeing why calling a gun a firearm and not a weapon is bad while trying to articalate a message . It is in fact calling a spade a spade. Yes I do believe a gun , firearm is a weapon to inflicting bodily harm or physical damage and to gain an advantage or to defending oneself in conflict or contest . I believe that is the issue here . When one says firearm you don't istantly think of hurting or damaging something but when you say weapon , that's what you are saying because that is the actual definition of the word weapon . Someone wrote earlier that even if a gun was purpose built for target shooting it is still a weapon because its original design is still a gun and firearm . This is why wording matters . Is it not one of our biggest pet peeves that the semi auto AR15 is not an assault rifle . Using the same logic . It is an assault rifle because although purpose built not to be an assault rifle it still is derived from the same platform and design as an assault rifle there for it is an assault rifle . I may not have worded the perfectlly but I'm sure you get the point .
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November 29, 2012, 11:17 AM | #115 |
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I disagree that the general use of the word weapon is hostile. But accepting that premise for a moment, why do we need to not appear hostile(specifically change the language we use)? As noted before, public opinion is and has been swaying in our favor when it comes to gun control. So if all this time the word weapon has been hostile and off putting, why aren't people more and more people indicating that additional gun control is needed or handgun ownership should be banned? Why should we now start to put on airs to appease the public that's already starting to come around and becoming more accepting of the ideas surrounding the 2A?
The flip-side would be even if some people do find the word weapon to be aggressive or detrimental in nature, would it not be better to remove the stigma around a word that describes a core aspect of firearms, rather than dance around it? |
November 29, 2012, 11:20 AM | #116 |
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The trouble is not in calling a firearm something besides a weapon. In fact, I'm not sure I ever use the word weapon in that context. The trouble is in claiming that a firearm ISN'T a weapon.
You can call it a gun, firearm, piece, roscoe, peacemaker, revolver, pistol, handgun... uhg, even platform, I suppose, probably quite a few other names too but whatever name you use, it's STILL... a weapon.
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November 29, 2012, 11:21 AM | #117 | ||||
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@breakingcontact Just want to comment on a few parts of your statement here. This is all for the sake of discussion.
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By the way, Arizona calls it a Concealed Weapons Permit because that's what the gun on your hip is...a weapon. It also covers other objects that are weapons as well. Quote:
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Let me put it to you another way. When, um, a certain President we currently have says that he supports the 2nd Amendment, what do you think in your mind? I certainly don't think he supports the right of the individual to keep and bear arms. He might support the militia part (in the form of the NG), and therefore can say he supports the 2nd Amendment. We see right through the deception. Non-shooters will see right through us if we start watering down our language, and lie to them by saying the Glock on my hip isn't a weapon. |
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November 29, 2012, 11:25 AM | #118 | |
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This has nothing at all to do with calling a gun a weapon. Technically speaking ALL rifles are assault rifles because they can be used to assault something. The problem with the term isn't the violent connotation that assault has to it, it's the arbitrary definition that's attached to it. My sporterized SKS isn't an assault rifle, but put a folding stock and flash hider on it, and magically it is? That's the problem with the assault rifle wording...not the term itself. |
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November 29, 2012, 11:42 AM | #119 | |
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November 29, 2012, 12:18 PM | #120 |
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Certainly not accusing the folks engaging in civilized discussion here of militarized machismo. And as far as our gun rights growing...that had a lot of ground work laid and political work done before the YouTube types I'm calling out for making us look bad came to popularity.
Who do you think does us more good? Someone discussing/handling/shooting firearms in a civilized manner including defensive use(without viola in the background kind of civilized) or someone running around the range blasting with his weapon from behind a skull ski mask? |
November 29, 2012, 12:24 PM | #121 | |
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To reiterate. Guns are weapons. Is this true or false? If an anti-gunner asked if you carried a weapon, would you lie and tell him no? These are pertinent to the topic. Not FPS Russia and his vendetta against watermelons. If you'd like to discuss that, I'd suggest starting a new thread with that as the topic. |
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November 29, 2012, 12:43 PM | #122 | |
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RULE II: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY
Conspicuously and continuously violated, especially with pistols, Rule II applies whether you are involved in range practice, daily carry, or examination. If the weapon is assembled and in someone's hands, it is capable of being discharged. A firearm holstered properly, lying on a table, or placed in a scabbard is of no danger to anyone. http://thefiringline.com/Misc/safetyrules.html Target firearms are target weapons. Hunting firearms are hunting weapons. Self Defense firearms are self defense weapons. ALL firearms are weapons, every single one. Quote:
If an individual does not want to use the term weapon to describe firearms, thats their perogative and I support they're right not to. However, if someone tries to insist that ALL firearms are not weapons, they are just plain wrong, mistaken, incorrect, off track, misguided, misinformed and they are barking up the wrong tree.
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November 29, 2012, 02:45 PM | #123 |
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It might be better to call them arms, as in SAAMI (Sporting Arms, etc.), and that's the closest word that means the same thing as weapon. But I guess they could be a tool, too.
Remember the old B-westerns (if you're old enough) when the sheriff was nailing the wanted poster to a tree by pounding it with the butt of his revolver. Those were real Colt revolvers, too. Mustard and custard! It's still a firearm even when unloaded and it's not empty if there are still cartridges in the magazine--whether or not the chamber is loaded. If you don't think so, well, tell it to the judge. But things do change. There is a fairly well known German purveyor of arms and outdoor goods, rather like Cabellas, Franconia, used to be called Waffen Franconia, or I think they were. Wonder if they thought the word Waffen (arms) was bad or, more likely, too narrow.
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November 29, 2012, 02:58 PM | #124 |
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I suppose things will pay out in the courts of public opinion.
In the meantime, know I AM on the side of the 2nd Amendment. I just want us to speak in terms and cultivate an image that encourages others to support our rights (including defense, not just sport/hunting) as well. -Out. |
November 29, 2012, 04:29 PM | #125 |
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No PC For Me
Some of my firearms are weapons, some are hunting firearms, and orther are target pistols. I name them according to their original design or my intended use.
'nuff said
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