Bore Cleaning Technique - Harmful? - Page 2

Hal · March 21, 2014, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Bits of copper fowling and stuff can imbed itself in the soft nylon bristles making it more abrasive than a metal brush?

Wrong....

Bits of unknown debris - most likely a ferrous metal - can be drawn to a plastic rod and cling to it.
Copper and/or brass are non-ferrous & they are also much softer than the steel of the barrel.

Move plastic and it generates a static electric charge.

That static charge can attract debris - some of which may be harmful to the steel of your gun barrel.

Honestly?

I don't give a flying one through a rolling one if you believe it or not.
What you put in your guns that you bought with your hard eanred money is up to you.
Sand blast or soda blast them for all I care.

You asked this question:
"Is it harmful long term? "

I answered based o information I believe to be accurate - that plastic cleaning rods attract nasty abrasive crap.

Jim567 · March 21, 2014, 10:03 AM

I answered based o information I believe to be accurate - that plastic cleaning rods attract nasty abrasive crap.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Hal, by no means am I attempting to be difficult - But the plastic cleaning rod never touched the bore or barrel.

Respectfully,

Jim

Hal · March 21, 2014, 10:18 AM

Dude - that's why they refer to those pleasant little moments in life, when something horrible goes wrong, as "Oh S^#T" moments.

(If I had a buck for every time a Dremel caused misery to a firearm, I could probably buy IBM.)

You're saying it all yourself - 4 passes on low speed.
Low speed on my DeWalt is 450 RPM.

Let's say you spend 30 seconds, that's still 225 times that rod is spinning around in the bore - -or - - 225 times more chances it's going to knock against the side or the crown.

Jim567 · March 21, 2014, 10:33 AM

You're saying it all yourself - 4 passes on low speed.
Low speed on my DeWalt is 450 RPM.
-------------------------------------------------

Good point, I just chucked up and got about 40 rotations per pass x 4 = 160

Respectfully,

Jim

Bob Wright · March 21, 2014, 11:44 AM

I have often used a bronze bore brush to clean leading from the charge holes in the cylinder. However, I have a short section of old cleaning rod, about 6" in length to hold the bruch, chunking the rod in the drill chuck. Prevents getting the chuck too close to the cylinder.

Bob Wright

Hal · March 21, 2014, 11:59 AM

Quote:

I have often used a bronze bore brush to clean leading from the charge holes in the cylinder.

I confess to doing the exact same thing once many, many, many years ago.
All I got for my efforts was some crud with a glazed finish in the charge holes that was like 10 times harder to clean out than it had been the other times I hadn't tried that.

Jim567 · March 21, 2014, 01:12 PM

Another unscientfic experiment.

I took a break from work, went out in the garage and put an old 1970 era surplus M-16 cleaning rod in the vice. I used this because it had a finish covering the metal that I could observe wear to and also so I could bear concentrated pressure on a small visable area.

It had a sort of a parkerized finish on it.

I chucked a piece of the plastic cleaning rod in the drill I was using and ran it with pressure against the metal rod for 2 minutes in the same spot.
It VERY slighty polished the metal rods finish, it did not remove the finish at all.

An accidental 1/2 second touch to the steel in a gun barrel would do damage?

Then I chucked the nylon bristle directly in the drill so I could apply pressure.
I ran it against the metal rod for two minutes at high speed moving it back and forth. Didn't even touch the finish on the rod, seemed to clean the grunge off a bit but didnt even polish the finish.

I am having a hard time seeing how a lubricated nylon brush would hurt a hardened gun barrel with a few low speed passes.

Or that a quick accidental touch of a plastic cleaning rod would do the same.

Thank you for the opportunity to work my gray matter.

I respect all opinions.

I understand this goes a bit against the grain, no pun intended

Respectfully,

Jim

Jim567 · March 21, 2014, 10:14 PM

Realized that both Glock and Sig provided plastic rods and nylon bore brushes with the weapons.
For what's it's worth.

Heavy Metal 1 · March 21, 2014, 11:43 PM

OP you appear to be trying to justify and defend your method and rejecting the opinions you are asking for. If you are happy with your method then just go with it. Wipe Out foaming bore cleaner is really easy to use and requires nearly no effort. It isn't cheap, but it is easy.

Jim567 · March 22, 2014, 07:32 AM

I just wasn't buying the answers I was getting about a lubricated nylon brush and plastic rod damaging the bore so I did my own experiment.
Could have gone either way.
Still have not entirely convinced myself and as I keep saying my test was unscientific.
I may experiment with an old gun barrel today.
That it worked very well and fast cheaply - there is no question.
That there are other ways to accomplish the task was never in question.

Respectfully,

Jim

Jim567 · March 22, 2014, 08:06 AM

Heavy Metal,
I have been looking for that foam bore cleaner in all the local shops.
No one carries it, I will have to look online.
When I started taking multiple pistols to the range again that was my first thought.

Jim567 · March 22, 2014, 09:09 AM

Just took a new unused Springfield Armory mil-spec barrel to the garage.
I placed it in my vice.
Chucked up the plastic rod, inserted it in the barrel from the muzzle and applied downward pressure.
I ran it in the same spot for two minutes at high speed.
No visible wear to the finish. All pressure on the crown and rifling.
Did not wear even the finish there.

Chucked the nylon bore brush directly into the drill.
Ran it for two minutes in the muzzle.
High speed never moving it from the first inch of the muzzle, the barrel became warm to the touch.
Never even wore the finish.

The SA finish on the barrel I experimented on can't touch the Sig and Glock finish for durability in my opinion.

I have my answer . Thanks to all who contributed,made me cautious, and think.

I am not recommending this method to anyone. Not trying to change the world.

Your miliage may vary.

Respectfully.

Cheers,

Jim

Cheapshooter · March 22, 2014, 11:15 AM

An electric drill is completely inappropriate for cleaning the bore of your pistols. This would be much better!

Hal · March 22, 2014, 11:16 AM

Jim,
Obviously this could ping pong back and forth until eternity.
I'd started to look up links to people and companies within the industry that recommend against the use of plastic rods, then figured, why bother?

I'm not going to change your mind & you have as much of a chance of changing mine as you do talking me into parachuting again.
(slim to none & slim just left town)

Good luck to you and I hope you never run into an "Oh crap" moment.

As I admitted above, in my younger and dumber years (~ 40 years ago) I tried an electric drill and a wire brush myself, so, your method isn't anything new.

Over the years, I've read and heard that plastic cleaning rods can attract/trap abrasive debris.
The people that said/wrote this were people that made a living in the firearms industry, so, I tended to believe what they said/wrote.

Getting away with something once twice or even a hundred times really doesn't amount to much.
Look at how many people waddle out of their favorite watering hole after having a few too many and make it home just fine.
Must be tens of thousands of them a week.
Just because they get away with it doesn't mean it's not something safe to do.

Jim567 · March 22, 2014, 11:39 AM

No worries I just wanted to satisfy my self not recruit any converts.

Your last paragraph although not gun related --
Is well said and - well, well said !!!

Expressing your opinions on a forum can be difficult.
The same opinions spoken to someone in person over a beer would be much easily ( less stressfully ) bantered back and forth.

So - I apologize in advance for this lol!
I just read where some Glock and Sig barrels went 30,000 rounds. Hard to worry about a few passes with a lubricated nylon brush.

Glock and Sig and other manufacturers issue nylon rods and brushes.

Ok
ok you don't have to buy the next round of beers now.

Cheers to you.

Liked the brush mounted to the cabinet idea.

Jim

Jim567 · March 22, 2014, 11:43 AM

For the record I would not do this to a revolver for a couple obvious reasons.
If had one

One of the bad trends in our moden society is-
If you disagree with someone on a single issue -
You must dispise, hate,put down or totally discount that person.
I am old school on the above, I try and respect and learn from everyone's opinion.
I play the bagpipes professionally.
One day I gotta great tip that I still use today - from someone who couldn't play a lick and had very little experience or respect from me.
A wee light went off

lol

Jim567 · March 22, 2014, 12:03 PM

If anyone thinks this forum can be tough- visit my bagpipe forum lol!!
Yikes bless the moderators here and there.
It's people's passions and both endeavors bring out the best and worst of folks

Heavy Metal 1 · March 22, 2014, 02:39 PM

Jim,

I am suprised you can't find bore cleaning foam. Cleaning supplies are abundant in my neck of the woods, probably because reloading components are so scarce! If you get the foaming cleaner be careful not to use it in gas operated semi autos because this stuff completely removes all lubricants.

Chris_B · March 22, 2014, 02:56 PM

I think I'll go and find my 'Heavy Metal' movie soundtrack. Thanks for reminding me

Heavy Metal 1 · March 22, 2014, 02:58 PM

\m/

Jim567 · March 22, 2014, 03:01 PM

The foam sounds perfect for semi auto barrels - always cleaned out of the pistol so no worries in removing lube where you want it in the action.

Bill DeShivs · March 22, 2014, 03:26 PM

It's just not a good idea for many reasons.
And bullets don't speed up after they have left the barrel.

Jim567 · March 23, 2014, 08:10 AM

Bill the reason I did the test myself on a barrel is because a lot of the comments I was getting were "bad idea" ect with no further reason.
I am talking semi auto barrels held in your hand and making low speed passes.
Even using high speed passes concentrating on a specific part of the barrel - I didn't even mar the finish. Never mind the steel
I'll take your word on bullets not speeding up after they leave the barrel

Though there are articles out there that say a bullet is traveling the fastest
a few inches out of the barrel

.
Cheers,

Jim

Jim567 · March 23, 2014, 08:23 AM

To me, it just didn't make sense that bullets and hot gases are Ok going down a barrel but a lubricated nylon brush slowly traveling down is not.
I could up the test in the barrel to 30 minutes with the drill on high speed?

Hal · March 23, 2014, 08:56 AM

Ok - for the last and final time....

It isn't the soft plastic.
It's the debris that may get lodged in the soft plastic.

If you want to duplicate that scenario, then sprinkle some sand on the wet rod and shake it off.

As far as the bullets...
I can't say one way or the other if they speed up.
I do know I've had a couple slow to a stop inside a barrel....

March 21, 2014, 01:12 PM	#32
Jim567 Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2014 Location: NE FL Posts: 656	Another unscientfic experiment. I took a break from work, went out in the garage and put an old 1970 era surplus M-16 cleaning rod in the vice. I used this because it had a finish covering the metal that I could observe wear to and also so I could bear concentrated pressure on a small visable area. It had a sort of a parkerized finish on it. I chucked a piece of the plastic cleaning rod in the drill I was using and ran it with pressure against the metal rod for 2 minutes in the same spot. It VERY slighty polished the metal rods finish, it did not remove the finish at all. An accidental 1/2 second touch to the steel in a gun barrel would do damage? Then I chucked the nylon bristle directly in the drill so I could apply pressure. I ran it against the metal rod for two minutes at high speed moving it back and forth. Didn't even touch the finish on the rod, seemed to clean the grunge off a bit but didnt even polish the finish. I am having a hard time seeing how a lubricated nylon brush would hurt a hardened gun barrel with a few low speed passes. Or that a quick accidental touch of a plastic cleaning rod would do the same. Thank you for the opportunity to work my gray matter. I respect all opinions. I understand this goes a bit against the grain, no pun intended Respectfully, Jim Last edited by Jim567; March 21, 2014 at 06:13 PM.

March 21, 2014, 11:43 PM	#34
Heavy Metal 1 Senior Member Join Date: January 17, 2012 Posts: 247	OP you appear to be trying to justify and defend your method and rejecting the opinions you are asking for. If you are happy with your method then just go with it. Wipe Out foaming bore cleaner is really easy to use and requires nearly no effort. It isn't cheap, but it is easy. __________________ The blood runs free, the rain turns red, give me the wine, you keep the bread.

March 22, 2014, 07:32 AM	#35
Jim567 Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2014 Location: NE FL Posts: 656	I just wasn't buying the answers I was getting about a lubricated nylon brush and plastic rod damaging the bore so I did my own experiment. Could have gone either way. Still have not entirely convinced myself and as I keep saying my test was unscientific. I may experiment with an old gun barrel today. That it worked very well and fast cheaply - there is no question. That there are other ways to accomplish the task was never in question. Respectfully, Jim Last edited by Jim567; March 22, 2014 at 07:44 AM.

March 22, 2014, 09:09 AM	#37
Jim567 Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2014 Location: NE FL Posts: 656	Just took a new unused Springfield Armory mil-spec barrel to the garage. I placed it in my vice. Chucked up the plastic rod, inserted it in the barrel from the muzzle and applied downward pressure. I ran it in the same spot for two minutes at high speed. No visible wear to the finish. All pressure on the crown and rifling. Did not wear even the finish there. Chucked the nylon bore brush directly into the drill. Ran it for two minutes in the muzzle. High speed never moving it from the first inch of the muzzle, the barrel became warm to the touch. Never even wore the finish. The SA finish on the barrel I experimented on can't touch the Sig and Glock finish for durability in my opinion. I have my answer . Thanks to all who contributed,made me cautious, and think. I am not recommending this method to anyone. Not trying to change the world. Your miliage may vary. Respectfully. Cheers, Jim Last edited by Jim567; March 22, 2014 at 09:15 AM.

March 22, 2014, 11:15 AM	#38
Cheapshooter Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 2007 Location: Missouri Posts: 8,306	An electric drill is completely inappropriate for cleaning the bore of your pistols. This would be much better! __________________ Cheapshooter's rules of gun ownership #1: NEVER SELL OR TRADE ANYTHING!

March 21, 2014, 10:03 AM	#27
Jim567 Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2014 Location: NE FL Posts: 656	I answered based o information I believe to be accurate - that plastic cleaning rods attract nasty abrasive crap. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Hal, by no means am I attempting to be difficult - But the plastic cleaning rod never touched the bore or barrel. Respectfully, Jim

March 21, 2014, 10:18 AM	#28
Hal Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 1998 Location: Ohio USA Posts: 8,563	Dude - that's why they refer to those pleasant little moments in life, when something horrible goes wrong, as "Oh S^#T" moments. (If I had a buck for every time a Dremel caused misery to a firearm, I could probably buy IBM.) You're saying it all yourself - 4 passes on low speed. Low speed on my DeWalt is 450 RPM. Let's say you spend 30 seconds, that's still 225 times that rod is spinning around in the bore - -or - - 225 times more chances it's going to knock against the side or the crown.

March 21, 2014, 10:33 AM	#29
Jim567 Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2014 Location: NE FL Posts: 656	You're saying it all yourself - 4 passes on low speed. Low speed on my DeWalt is 450 RPM. ------------------------------------------------- Good point, I just chucked up and got about 40 rotations per pass x 4 = 160 Respectfully, Jim

March 21, 2014, 11:44 AM	#30
Bob Wright Senior Member Join Date: July 10, 2012 Location: Memphis, Tennessee Posts: 2,989	I have often used a bronze bore brush to clean leading from the charge holes in the cylinder. However, I have a short section of old cleaning rod, about 6" in length to hold the bruch, chunking the rod in the drill chuck. Prevents getting the chuck too close to the cylinder. Bob Wright

March 21, 2014, 10:14 PM	#33
Jim567 Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2014 Location: NE FL Posts: 656	Realized that both Glock and Sig provided plastic rods and nylon bore brushes with the weapons. For what's it's worth.

March 22, 2014, 08:06 AM	#36
Jim567 Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2014 Location: NE FL Posts: 656	Heavy Metal, I have been looking for that foam bore cleaner in all the local shops. No one carries it, I will have to look online. When I started taking multiple pistols to the range again that was my first thought.

March 22, 2014, 11:16 AM	#39
Hal Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 1998 Location: Ohio USA Posts: 8,563	Jim, Obviously this could ping pong back and forth until eternity. I'd started to look up links to people and companies within the industry that recommend against the use of plastic rods, then figured, why bother? I'm not going to change your mind & you have as much of a chance of changing mine as you do talking me into parachuting again. (slim to none & slim just left town) Good luck to you and I hope you never run into an "Oh crap" moment. As I admitted above, in my younger and dumber years (~ 40 years ago) I tried an electric drill and a wire brush myself, so, your method isn't anything new. Over the years, I've read and heard that plastic cleaning rods can attract/trap abrasive debris. The people that said/wrote this were people that made a living in the firearms industry, so, I tended to believe what they said/wrote. Getting away with something once twice or even a hundred times really doesn't amount to much. Look at how many people waddle out of their favorite watering hole after having a few too many and make it home just fine. Must be tens of thousands of them a week. Just because they get away with it doesn't mean it's not something safe to do.

March 22, 2014, 11:39 AM	#40
Jim567 Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2014 Location: NE FL Posts: 656	No worries I just wanted to satisfy my self not recruit any converts. Your last paragraph although not gun related -- Is well said and - well, well said !!! Expressing your opinions on a forum can be difficult. The same opinions spoken to someone in person over a beer would be much easily ( less stressfully ) bantered back and forth. So - I apologize in advance for this lol! I just read where some Glock and Sig barrels went 30,000 rounds. Hard to worry about a few passes with a lubricated nylon brush. Glock and Sig and other manufacturers issue nylon rods and brushes. Ok ok you don't have to buy the next round of beers now. Cheers to you. Liked the brush mounted to the cabinet idea. Jim

March 22, 2014, 11:43 AM	#41
Jim567 Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2014 Location: NE FL Posts: 656	For the record I would not do this to a revolver for a couple obvious reasons. If had one One of the bad trends in our moden society is- If you disagree with someone on a single issue - You must dispise, hate,put down or totally discount that person. I am old school on the above, I try and respect and learn from everyone's opinion. I play the bagpipes professionally. One day I gotta great tip that I still use today - from someone who couldn't play a lick and had very little experience or respect from me. A wee light went off lol Last edited by Jim567; March 22, 2014 at 11:55 AM.

March 22, 2014, 12:03 PM	#42
Jim567 Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2014 Location: NE FL Posts: 656	If anyone thinks this forum can be tough- visit my bagpipe forum lol!! Yikes bless the moderators here and there. It's people's passions and both endeavors bring out the best and worst of folks Last edited by Jim567; March 22, 2014 at 03:02 PM.

March 22, 2014, 02:39 PM	#43
Heavy Metal 1 Senior Member Join Date: January 17, 2012 Posts: 247	Jim, I am suprised you can't find bore cleaning foam. Cleaning supplies are abundant in my neck of the woods, probably because reloading components are so scarce! If you get the foaming cleaner be careful not to use it in gas operated semi autos because this stuff completely removes all lubricants. __________________ The blood runs free, the rain turns red, give me the wine, you keep the bread.

March 22, 2014, 02:56 PM	#44
Chris_B Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2007 Posts: 3,101	I think I'll go and find my 'Heavy Metal' movie soundtrack. Thanks for reminding me

March 22, 2014, 02:58 PM	#45
Heavy Metal 1 Senior Member Join Date: January 17, 2012 Posts: 247	\m/ __________________ The blood runs free, the rain turns red, give me the wine, you keep the bread.

March 22, 2014, 03:01 PM	#46
Jim567 Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2014 Location: NE FL Posts: 656	The foam sounds perfect for semi auto barrels - always cleaned out of the pistol so no worries in removing lube where you want it in the action.

March 22, 2014, 03:26 PM	#47
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,987	It's just not a good idea for many reasons. And bullets don't speed up after they have left the barrel. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

March 23, 2014, 08:10 AM	#48
Jim567 Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2014 Location: NE FL Posts: 656	Bill the reason I did the test myself on a barrel is because a lot of the comments I was getting were "bad idea" ect with no further reason. I am talking semi auto barrels held in your hand and making low speed passes. Even using high speed passes concentrating on a specific part of the barrel - I didn't even mar the finish. Never mind the steel I'll take your word on bullets not speeding up after they leave the barrel Though there are articles out there that say a bullet is traveling the fastest a few inches out of the barrel . Cheers, Jim Last edited by Jim567; March 23, 2014 at 08:49 AM.

March 23, 2014, 08:23 AM	#49
Jim567 Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2014 Location: NE FL Posts: 656	To me, it just didn't make sense that bullets and hot gases are Ok going down a barrel but a lubricated nylon brush slowly traveling down is not. I could up the test in the barrel to 30 minutes with the drill on high speed?

March 23, 2014, 08:56 AM	#50
Hal Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 1998 Location: Ohio USA Posts: 8,563	Ok - for the last and final time.... It isn't the soft plastic. It's the debris that may get lodged in the soft plastic. If you want to duplicate that scenario, then sprinkle some sand on the wet rod and shake it off. As far as the bullets... I can't say one way or the other if they speed up. I do know I've had a couple slow to a stop inside a barrel....