Pin Tumbler results - Page 2

hounddawg · December 12, 2012, 06:06 AM

if it leaks try doing a search for Gamma Seal plastic lids, they are less than ten bucks, reusable, and are air/water tight. I was thinking about doing what you are doing about a year ago but found out I can wash a couple of hundred cases by hand in 5 minutes with good results

thedaddycat · December 13, 2012, 06:04 PM

Snuffy, that's some really clean and shiny brass. Looks about like mine does. Can you spell OCD?

Are you getting similar results on the insides and primer pockets? I would think so, please confirm this is you would.

Though I can't get a good pic of the inside of these .223 cases, it shines like the outside does. The pink tub on the right holds those yet to be processed. With what I consider minimal effort on my part, I get cases as clean as I can get them unless I buy them new. I am quite satisfied with the results I'm getting. For me, this was a good investment in reloading equipment.

Guys, if you're going to make a home version of this tumbler, remember that a standard 5 gallon bucket is tapered and will not roll evenly. You may need to consider having different size rollers or some other means of compensation.

5R milspec · December 13, 2012, 10:29 PM

Looks good man.I cannot wait till mine is made.I hope that making a drum will be the way to go for me.Can you to how many you can do at one time.I hope to do 1000 or more in 9mm.

hounddawg · December 15, 2012, 07:05 AM

here is a review from accurate shooter on them looks there is a 2 pound limit on brass which translates out to about 350 9mm, 250 .45 etc etc

http://www.accurateshooter.com/techn...ainless-media/

are the pins really necessary? Has anyone ever tried it without using the pins? I use a wet method similar to the pin method but only wash for 5 minutes instead of a couple of hours and the brass comes out very clean inside and out including primer holes on deprimed brass. It is not as shiny as the stuff in the pics but I suspect the shine comes from the acidic action of the lemi shine over a couple of hours.

Vance · December 15, 2012, 12:27 PM

http://biggdawgtumblers.com/5601.html
This guy builds larger tumblers. The largest will do 2500 9mm cases. I am going to build my own. Sourcing my parts from ebay and local shops, I can do it for myself for about a third of the cost of what he wants. I won't build one for anyone else as that would not be ethical of me.

I do have a Thumblers model B tumbler and it does do an awesome job, but is a pain in the rear to do only a few hundred at a time. The pins are neccesary to get the shine. The lemishine really only softens the water and allows the dish soap to do a better job.

hounddawg · December 15, 2012, 03:20 PM

from the way that article read the lemi shine makes em shiny, just tumbling with the pins detergent and water cleans but does not shine. Best guess on the net of the composition of lemishine is it is just citric acid hemihydrate. That would act as a water softener as well as descaling the brass.I did a experiment a year or so ago where I soaked a couple of pieces of LC brass in a quart of water with some lemon juice for an hour and I had a pink film which was easily removed.

Speculating here but I think the lemon juice removed a small layer of zinc near the surface and just left the copper but once I cleaned the pink film off the brass underneath appeared entirely normal. I think I will repeat that tonight and post before and after pics. I don't have any super scrungy brass but I doi have a lot that isn't shiny so we will see. Sacrificing a few .223's and 45's to science as of 3:40 est

hounddawg · December 15, 2012, 05:50 PM

Well I found what I was looking for. The pins clean the interior of the cases and primer pockets. I soaked some cases ( 45 ACP & .223) for an hour some were primed and some deprimed. None were as scroungy as the cases others have posted but all were dull from oxidization. Pretty close to what is in post 27. Ater 1.5 hours of soaking in water, dawn dishwashing detergent, and a 1/4 teaspoon of lemon juice all were as shiny on the outside as a new case which was straight from the bag. Interior case walls of the .45 ACP were clean but not shiny, case bottoms and primer pockets still had some black residue.

I took pics but unless someone really wants to see I won't bother posting.

Oh and while I doubt if I will ever go to a wet pin method, Snuffy's pics are making me thing about going back to the dry method if I start doing a lot of pistol stuff again. Just dropping em in the tumbler before bed and next morning run em through the media separator sounds pretty good.

snuffy · December 16, 2012, 12:33 PM

Daddy C, no the insides are NOT shiny, and the primer pockets do NOT get cleaned----MUCH! The finer corncob media does a better job of cleaning the primer pockets, but still leaves some carbon in the bottoms.

As I said before, you don't NEED them any cleaner. The media gets inside the cases, cleans chunks of unburned powder from the inside. More than that is just not needed. As for the primer pockets, I almost never clean them. It's been shown time and again that primer residue doesn't build up and does not affect the firing of the primer.

IF I were worried about the insides and primer pockets, I would run them through my US unit.. It DOES get all the carbon out of the inside and clean the primer pocket. It does not shine them up though.

As for the carbon inside a case, it too does not build up, it's more of a stain than having any substance to it. Any liquid media with citric acid in it will remove all the carbon. It will also bleach out the dark tarnish on the outside of the cases. Brass found exposed to rain and sun will be darkly stained. The acid bath removes, changes the chemical structure of the stain.

I once bought some,(500), NEW LC brass. Never fired, imagine not having to trim or remove the primer crimp! It was clearly rejected because it had gotten WET! It was stained pretty much all over the entire case. 16 minutes in my ultrasonic cleaner with Hornady case cleaner made them all brass colored!

Vance · December 16, 2012, 02:29 PM

Not neccesary, but cool to get them that clean. To each his own choice.

leadchucker · December 20, 2012, 10:41 AM

Okay, after reading this and a few other threads on pin/tumbler brass cleaning, I'm interested... but not to the point of shelling out several hundred bucks for the ready-made setup.

I'm thinking of kluging together a tumbler setup from junk box parts (I have an extensive junk box.

)

Anyone else done this, and did it work for you?

How much pin media would I need for say, a five gallon paint bucket?

Can I use my existing media separator system? (consists of a homemade rotary sieve made from wood and hardware cloth.)

Final question. Can I use this process dry?

snuffy · December 20, 2012, 01:59 PM

Here's a place to buy the pins, and also a whole kit.

http://www.stainlesstumblingmedia.com/

Or just the pins;

http://www.stainlesstumblingmedia.co...ing-media.html

Your "tumbler" will need to have paddles inside it to insure the media actually tumbles. Just sliding around inside the pail won't do anything. Also, 5 gallon pails are tapered enough to fit inside each other when empty. This makes them not "track" straight when rolled on it's side.

Then there's the problem of sealing them water tight. And no, the media HAS to be wet, and the liquid must have some citric acid in it. That's what changes the black stains back to brass color.

leadchucker · December 20, 2012, 02:22 PM

I was thinking of building the tumbler so that the pail rests at about a 45 degree angle. The taper of the pail won't cause any problem then, and there will be no need for a watertight lid. Fabricating some plastic baffles from a second pail and gluing them in shouldn't be a problem either.

Maybe if I have some free time shortly.

hounddawg · December 20, 2012, 02:34 PM

google gamma seal for leak proof bucket lids, looks like that might solve the waterproof issue.

nevermind I like your idea better but put the baffles in at a spiral so they act like the baffles in a cement mixer

jaguarxk120 · December 20, 2012, 03:54 PM

Bufalo Arms has the stainless media and cleaning compound for $45. Take a look at thir web site.

5R milspec · December 20, 2012, 05:18 PM

If you can find a treadmill and the motor works then you'll have a good head start.To this is what I am making mine out of.It's all together but the drum,I am still thinking on this part.I reall want to dry a 8-10 inch piece of PVC and putting paddels in it,all so made from PVC.( cut in half then placed round side up ) For some reason I want to over think this part of the project.I'm OCD so I want it right the first time I guess,you just gotta love being OCD.

December 12, 2012, 06:06 AM	#26
hounddawg Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2009 Posts: 4,232	if it leaks try doing a search for Gamma Seal plastic lids, they are less than ten bucks, reusable, and are air/water tight. I was thinking about doing what you are doing about a year ago but found out I can wash a couple of hundred cases by hand in 5 minutes with good results __________________ “How do I get to the next level?” Well, you get to the next level by being the first one on the range and the last one to leave.” – Jerry Miculek

December 13, 2012, 10:29 PM	#28
5R milspec Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2009 Location: South Carolina Posts: 360	Looks good man.I cannot wait till mine is made.I hope that making a drum will be the way to go for me.Can you to how many you can do at one time.I hope to do 1000 or more in 9mm. __________________ life is great but its better when you can own as many guns you wish to own.for me I haven't bought enough yet.

December 15, 2012, 07:05 AM	#29
hounddawg Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2009 Posts: 4,232	here is a review from accurate shooter on them looks there is a 2 pound limit on brass which translates out to about 350 9mm, 250 .45 etc etc http://www.accurateshooter.com/techn...ainless-media/ are the pins really necessary? Has anyone ever tried it without using the pins? I use a wet method similar to the pin method but only wash for 5 minutes instead of a couple of hours and the brass comes out very clean inside and out including primer holes on deprimed brass. It is not as shiny as the stuff in the pics but I suspect the shine comes from the acidic action of the lemi shine over a couple of hours. __________________ “How do I get to the next level?” Well, you get to the next level by being the first one on the range and the last one to leave.” – Jerry Miculek Last edited by hounddawg; December 15, 2012 at 08:20 AM.

December 15, 2012, 03:20 PM	#31
hounddawg Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2009 Posts: 4,232	from the way that article read the lemi shine makes em shiny, just tumbling with the pins detergent and water cleans but does not shine. Best guess on the net of the composition of lemishine is it is just citric acid hemihydrate. That would act as a water softener as well as descaling the brass.I did a experiment a year or so ago where I soaked a couple of pieces of LC brass in a quart of water with some lemon juice for an hour and I had a pink film which was easily removed. Speculating here but I think the lemon juice removed a small layer of zinc near the surface and just left the copper but once I cleaned the pink film off the brass underneath appeared entirely normal. I think I will repeat that tonight and post before and after pics. I don't have any super scrungy brass but I doi have a lot that isn't shiny so we will see. Sacrificing a few .223's and 45's to science as of 3:40 est __________________ “How do I get to the next level?” Well, you get to the next level by being the first one on the range and the last one to leave.” – Jerry Miculek Last edited by hounddawg; December 15, 2012 at 03:43 PM.

December 15, 2012, 05:50 PM	#32
hounddawg Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2009 Posts: 4,232	Well I found what I was looking for. The pins clean the interior of the cases and primer pockets. I soaked some cases ( 45 ACP & .223) for an hour some were primed and some deprimed. None were as scroungy as the cases others have posted but all were dull from oxidization. Pretty close to what is in post 27. Ater 1.5 hours of soaking in water, dawn dishwashing detergent, and a 1/4 teaspoon of lemon juice all were as shiny on the outside as a new case which was straight from the bag. Interior case walls of the .45 ACP were clean but not shiny, case bottoms and primer pockets still had some black residue. I took pics but unless someone really wants to see I won't bother posting. Oh and while I doubt if I will ever go to a wet pin method, Snuffy's pics are making me thing about going back to the dry method if I start doing a lot of pistol stuff again. Just dropping em in the tumbler before bed and next morning run em through the media separator sounds pretty good. __________________ “How do I get to the next level?” Well, you get to the next level by being the first one on the range and the last one to leave.” – Jerry Miculek Last edited by hounddawg; December 15, 2012 at 06:06 PM.

December 13, 2012, 06:04 PM	#27
thedaddycat Senior Member Join Date: September 25, 2011 Posts: 388	Snuffy, that's some really clean and shiny brass. Looks about like mine does. Can you spell OCD? Are you getting similar results on the insides and primer pockets? I would think so, please confirm this is you would. Though I can't get a good pic of the inside of these .223 cases, it shines like the outside does. The pink tub on the right holds those yet to be processed. With what I consider minimal effort on my part, I get cases as clean as I can get them unless I buy them new. I am quite satisfied with the results I'm getting. For me, this was a good investment in reloading equipment. Guys, if you're going to make a home version of this tumbler, remember that a standard 5 gallon bucket is tapered and will not roll evenly. You may need to consider having different size rollers or some other means of compensation.

December 15, 2012, 12:27 PM	#30
Vance Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2011 Location: North Bend, OR Posts: 743	http://biggdawgtumblers.com/5601.html This guy builds larger tumblers. The largest will do 2500 9mm cases. I am going to build my own. Sourcing my parts from ebay and local shops, I can do it for myself for about a third of the cost of what he wants. I won't build one for anyone else as that would not be ethical of me. I do have a Thumblers model B tumbler and it does do an awesome job, but is a pain in the rear to do only a few hundred at a time. The pins are neccesary to get the shine. The lemishine really only softens the water and allows the dish soap to do a better job.

December 16, 2012, 12:33 PM	#33
snuffy Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2001 Location: Oshkosh wi. Posts: 3,055	not on the inside Daddy C, no the insides are NOT shiny, and the primer pockets do NOT get cleaned----MUCH! The finer corncob media does a better job of cleaning the primer pockets, but still leaves some carbon in the bottoms. As I said before, you don't NEED them any cleaner. The media gets inside the cases, cleans chunks of unburned powder from the inside. More than that is just not needed. As for the primer pockets, I almost never clean them. It's been shown time and again that primer residue doesn't build up and does not affect the firing of the primer. IF I were worried about the insides and primer pockets, I would run them through my US unit.. It DOES get all the carbon out of the inside and clean the primer pocket. It does not shine them up though. As for the carbon inside a case, it too does not build up, it's more of a stain than having any substance to it. Any liquid media with citric acid in it will remove all the carbon. It will also bleach out the dark tarnish on the outside of the cases. Brass found exposed to rain and sun will be darkly stained. The acid bath removes, changes the chemical structure of the stain. I once bought some,(500), NEW LC brass. Never fired, imagine not having to trim or remove the primer crimp! It was clearly rejected because it had gotten WET! It was stained pretty much all over the entire case. 16 minutes in my ultrasonic cleaner with Hornady case cleaner made them all brass colored! __________________ The more people I meet, the more I love my dog They're going to get their butts kicked over there this election. How come people can't spell and use words correctly?

December 16, 2012, 02:29 PM	#34
Vance Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2011 Location: North Bend, OR Posts: 743	Not neccesary, but cool to get them that clean. To each his own choice.

December 20, 2012, 10:41 AM	#35
leadchucker Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2011 Location: NC Posts: 252	Okay, after reading this and a few other threads on pin/tumbler brass cleaning, I'm interested... but not to the point of shelling out several hundred bucks for the ready-made setup. I'm thinking of kluging together a tumbler setup from junk box parts (I have an extensive junk box.) Anyone else done this, and did it work for you? How much pin media would I need for say, a five gallon paint bucket? Can I use my existing media separator system? (consists of a homemade rotary sieve made from wood and hardware cloth.) Final question. Can I use this process dry?

December 20, 2012, 01:59 PM	#36
snuffy Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2001 Location: Oshkosh wi. Posts: 3,055	Here's a place to buy the pins, and also a whole kit. http://www.stainlesstumblingmedia.com/ Or just the pins; http://www.stainlesstumblingmedia.co...ing-media.html Your "tumbler" will need to have paddles inside it to insure the media actually tumbles. Just sliding around inside the pail won't do anything. Also, 5 gallon pails are tapered enough to fit inside each other when empty. This makes them not "track" straight when rolled on it's side. Then there's the problem of sealing them water tight. And no, the media HAS to be wet, and the liquid must have some citric acid in it. That's what changes the black stains back to brass color. __________________ The more people I meet, the more I love my dog They're going to get their butts kicked over there this election. How come people can't spell and use words correctly?

December 20, 2012, 02:22 PM	#37
leadchucker Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2011 Location: NC Posts: 252	I was thinking of building the tumbler so that the pail rests at about a 45 degree angle. The taper of the pail won't cause any problem then, and there will be no need for a watertight lid. Fabricating some plastic baffles from a second pail and gluing them in shouldn't be a problem either. Maybe if I have some free time shortly.

December 20, 2012, 02:34 PM	#38
hounddawg Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2009 Posts: 4,232	google gamma seal for leak proof bucket lids, looks like that might solve the waterproof issue. nevermind I like your idea better but put the baffles in at a spiral so they act like the baffles in a cement mixer __________________ “How do I get to the next level?” Well, you get to the next level by being the first one on the range and the last one to leave.” – Jerry Miculek Last edited by hounddawg; December 20, 2012 at 03:04 PM.

December 20, 2012, 03:54 PM	#39
jaguarxk120 Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2008 Location: Michigan Posts: 2,619	Bufalo Arms has the stainless media and cleaning compound for $45. Take a look at thir web site.

December 20, 2012, 05:18 PM	#40
5R milspec Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2009 Location: South Carolina Posts: 360	If you can find a treadmill and the motor works then you'll have a good head start.To this is what I am making mine out of.It's all together but the drum,I am still thinking on this part.I reall want to dry a 8-10 inch piece of PVC and putting paddels in it,all so made from PVC.( cut in half then placed round side up ) For some reason I want to over think this part of the project.I'm OCD so I want it right the first time I guess,you just gotta love being OCD. __________________ life is great but its better when you can own as many guns you wish to own.for me I haven't bought enough yet.