Different manufacturers of the M1A

[dginsd]

Let me start off by starting my gun knowledge is limited, I don't own any guns but have always been a staunch supporter and defender of the second amendment. The recent legislation in California has caused me to take a great interest in and ultimately decide to make my first firearm purchase. After some research I've decided on the M1A, specifically the Springfield M1A SOCOM 16 http://http://www.springfield-armory...com-16/#AA9626. The reason I've chosen this particular rifle is it's a semi automatic that meets the featureless criteria of the new California laws. My only problem with this selection is it's fairly expensive at $1900+. So my question is twofold are there other manufacturers that make this rifle that might be less expensive? My other question is there any other semi-automatic rifles I might consider, within CA compliance for featureless? Before I get the "build your own" I'd like to mention also I'd like to take the guns out and go shooting every so often. I'd consider an AR build after I had at least one I can take to practice with.

[Screwball]

Other M1A builders than Springfield Armory will cost more... and most try for M14 mirrors/CMP shoots.

For as much as it sucks to say, a Springfield Armory rifle will be your best bet.

I would join M14 Forum and ask around for info. I was looking at one, and happened to have a member living within an hour of me, selling one older M1A that had a lot of USGI parts. It was a N/M model (standard model sent back for the upgrade), and I paid less than a similar new gun (all commercial parts, no USGI). Had less than 50 rounds through it. Used market will turn up some gems...

[P5 Guy]

dginsd, there are others but in different calibers. I'm not up on CA gun restrictions so maybe I'm not much help.
Ruger makes a semi-auto called the Mini-14 or Mini-30, the 14 is a 223 caliber and the 30 is 7.62x39. The rifle you are looking at is 7.62x51 or the commercial name for the round 308 Winchester.
The father of the military m14 or commercial named M1A from Springfield is the M1 Garand, available from the CMP >cmp.com<. You'll have a bit of a wait but Garand rifles are under $1000 for the most part.

[1stmar]

Try Fulton armory

[T. O'Heir]

M1A is a registered trade mark. Nobody makes one but Springfield Armory Inc. Everything else is a clone. As such, like Screwball says, will cost more. Suggest you rethink the SOCOM 16 model. Too much velocity loss with the wee barrel.
The Standard with a walnut stock(lots of assorted aftermarket stocks around. The GI issue fibreglass stock makes my semi'd Winchester M-14 a dream to carry. Negligible felt recoil too.) weighs exactly the same and retails for $1,599.99 at Cabela's. No bayonet lugs on it either. Looses a lot of fun factor without it though. snicker. Anyway, shop around. The $1900 is high for retail.
The Mini-14/Mini-30 only look like M-14/M1A's. No other similarities.
"...an AR..." Just ain't the same. Gotta agree with P5 Guy about the M1 Rifle too. There ain't no rifle that quite like an M1. I think it's the perfect balance. Very much prefer the M1 to the M-14 myself.
The link doesn't work with the extra HTTP. Not to worry.

[turtlehead]

That's an interesting choice for a first rifle. You're not fooling around.

[Mobuck]

"Suggest you rethink the SOCOM 16 model. Too much velocity loss with the wee barrel."

I totally agree with this comment. Nothing but blast and recoil comes from such a short barrel. I carried an M-14 in combat theater and will attest to the effectiveness of the platform BUT patently disdain the abbreviated(emasculated) versions.

[Oldbrowngun]

I dont know the laws there but im assuming the gun has to look like grandpa's old rifle instead of a "scary" gun. Mini 14 would qualify. Its not a battle rifle, but your shooting the same 556 the Ar uses. Would a FAL be legal? If so i'd look into a FAL. Some M1 Garand's would be cheaper then m1a.

[peggysue]

Fulton armory is above the $3800. Price.

[markallen]

Not trying to get you to change your mind, but have you looked at either the Ruger Mini 14, or
Mini 30 ? I don't know the California statutes, so I don't know if the above qualify. But it's worth a look.

[1stmar]

Check gunbroker and look for an m1a scout squad. Very similar to socom 16 with a bit longer barrel and no night sights. Look hard enough you can get one below $1500 in wood and perhaps under $1400 in synthetic. Minis are good guns but imo not as nice as the m1a and I have both. Else you can look at cmp and check for a service grade garand for under $800. No magazine, clip fed 8 rounds. You will wait some though.

[SDF880]

I have the SOCOM16. If I had to do it over I would buy the M1A scout model
but the 16 suits me just fine!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6ybkiUl30Q

[zincwarrior]

Apologies but I thought CA required rifle with attached (bullet button) mag-and that was before last year's extensive (translation prohibition) revamp on firearms?

[1stmar]

I have a scout and prefer it too. But fired a socom and have to admit I liked it

[Grumpy_Bottom]

If I could go totally off track, let me throw something out there to stew...you're in CA, which means you're essentially prevented from having a removable magazine anyway. You're looking at semi-auto battle style rifles which meet their criteria and don't look too spooky. Why not save a fortune and go with an SKS...shoots a .30 cal round, albeit shorter than the 308 round, is stripper clip fed similar to the original M1 Garand, can be fed cheap (7.62x39 being half or better the price of .308) so you can get tons of practice, and is literally a quarter of the startup price as well? Heck, it's half the price of a mini-30, and the only benefit of the Mini-30 would be the 30 round non-removeable magazine...with practice you could easily load 3 stripper clips pretty efficiently...just my random noodling, carry on.

[Skans]

Personally, I'd prefer a good Norinco or Polytech M14s with USGI parts over a Springfield. The Chinese barrels and receivers are IMHO superior to Springfield because they are decent forged receivers and the barrels are chrome lined.

You have to really look for one with the USGI parts - but if you can find one, they are usually sell for a substantial discount to what it cost someone to put that together. Add a nice new walnut stock to it and you will have one of the nicest M1A/M14s's around!

[John C]

M1A's with a "muzzle brake" instead of a "flash suppressor" are featureless rifles in CA. You can still buy, own, and use them without restrictions, assuming you have a 10 round mag.

The M1A is a better rifle in all respects compared to the SKS. The SKS is only better in that ammo is cheaper if you just want to blast with it. An M1A is a superior rifle. Also, cheap steel cased .308 is only 15-20 cents per round compared to steel case 7.62x39, if you want to blast with it.

[Pathfinder45]

My buddy got the SOCOM16 and after a while it lost its charm. It's louder than *#*#!!! Even with the best earplugs, I can't be around that blasted thing when it goes off. I have to walk away from it, literally, and be quick about it. It's a very anti-social weapon. If you get directly behind the shooter, or if you are the shooter, it's not quite so bad. But we can't shoot beside one another on the firing line.

[brianinca]

If you scrounge around you may be able to find a newer M1A in the used section of pawn shops / local forums starting at $1300. If you want a better rifle, look for an older M1A. Edit to add: Yeah, 16" in a 308 SUCKS. Braked? REALLY SUCKS! 18" is as short as I will go, and I rebarreled my fussy 308 Tanker Garand back to 24" this month. Standard M1A = 22", good to go.

I lucked into a pawnshop gem a few years ago, a first-generation non-"assault weapon" from Nov-94. No bayonet lug, no flash hider, MOSTLY USGI including barrel. Unshot since the factory, I assume someone bought it in a panic, sat on it for 20+ years and then they or their heirs wanted the cash. Well, it still had Lubriplate on it, I doubt someone who didn't shoot it would have applied that.

Regardless, you will be good for a few years in CA with a non-scary M1A, until the next Governor closes the "detachable magazine without a pistol grip" loophole. I expect within five years ANY semi-automatic centerfire, including SKS/Garand types, will be deemed "assault weapons" and required to be registered. I aim to enjoy what I have and educate the masses in the meantime.

The Mini-14 / Mini-30 is a neat series of rifles, but a whole different ball of wax. Cheaper to shoot as 556/223 Rem/762x39 is significantly cheaper than 308 Win/762 NATO, steel case included, cheaper to acquire (~$600-800) used, and plenty of fun. They are not as much gun, by a long shot, but they are fine in their niche.

A surplus or modern M1 Carbine is another choice, again steel cased ammo is $.25/rd compared to $.35/rd for 308 Win, it's a light handy rifle in the $800-$1200 range. I bought only one as I realized for the same money I could have another Garand, and I didn't need any more.

Speaking of the Garand, you need to know what you're buying as a prettied up junker can cost you a lot of money to make right. Not a good first firearm. I *really* like all of mine, but I have >20 years into collecting/competing with them. Skip for now.

Lastly, the SKS is more a rifle than a carbine, not at all inaccurate if not shot out, super reliable, a little homely, and cheap to feed. I like them a lot, but as a fun gun / Jeep gun. $400 now seems like a lot when they used to be 15% of that price ('90s). Expensive rifle to make, forged components and hell for strong, lots of aftermarket doodads to hang off of them, and still a fixed magazine so currently exempt from all the STUPID that is CA firearms law. Don't put a detachable mag on, instant FELONY.

So, $$$$ for an M1A, $$$ for a Ruger Mini, $$ for an SKS. Your call.

[Grumpy_Bottom]

So is the M1A 4x as accurate, 4x as powerful, can it carry 4x the range? Or maybe just 2x as accurate and 2x as powerful? Point being, an out of the box M1A is not sub MOA, it's a battle rifle just like an SKS, and most seem to agree that the M1A is good for about 2MOA, 3 for the SKS. Again, for a general purpose plinker, just in case kind of rifle, at 4x the price, I am simply making the argument that you're not getting 4x the performance, and you get the added bonus of non-detachable mag and cheaper plinking ammo along with your 75% savings.

[44 AMP]

an SKS...shoots a .30 cal round, albeit shorter than the 308 round, is stripper clip fed similar to the original M1 Garand,

The only similarity between a stripper clip and the enbloc clip of the Garand is the word "clip".

With a stripper clip, rounds are held in the clip, then "stripped" from the clip (by hand, usually) into the magazine. The now empty clip must be removed from the action by hand, generally, though some guns (Mauser 98 and similar) can pop the empty clip out by closing the bolt.

The M1 Garand uses an "enbloc" clip, 8 rounds are held together in the clip and the entire loaded clip goes into the rifle. The clip is automatically ejected from the rifle when empty.

As to comparing the M1A and the SKS based on price..

for a general purpose plinker, just in case kind of rifle, at 4x the price, I am simply making the argument that you're not getting 4x the performance,

I won't argue that prices on M1As are stupid expensive these days. But they NEVER were cheap. The SKS has never, until now, been anything but cheap, since the fall of Soviet Communism. And by cheap I mean ONLY the price, not the workmanship.

I got a rack grade M1A for $500 when SKS was $75. And it was a fair deal.

No, you don't get 4x the performance (in some areas) for 4x the price. You DO get more for the higher price, but like a lot of other things in life, its NOT linear.

First off, there is the difference in the rounds. (and for simplicity, we'll stick to standard GI ball ammo for comparison)

The 7.62x39 fires a 123gr bullet at approx. 2300fps.
The 7.62x51 (7.62NATO ) fires a 150gr bullet at 2750fps +/- 30fps (GI specs)

SO, the M1A fires a significantly heavier bullet, significantly faster. It also has a flatter trajectory. Does this matter? Depends on what you want to do with it.

The M1A has one of the best peep sights ever put on a production rifle. SKS open sights are much cruder and a bit coarse in comparison.

Also, I have yet to find an M1A that has a poor trigger stock from the box. The same does not hold true for the SKS.

For anything other than plinking, SKS vs M1A is an apples to oranges comparison. The SKS is somewhat lighter, shorter, cheaper, ammo is cheaper, and has less power and effective range than the M1A.

The M1A has greater potential precision, power and range. IF the shooter can use it.

Picking a military style centerfire semiauto for your very first firearm is going to make the learning curve steeper than it has to be, but not impossibly so.

If you have the funds I would get an M1A, to hang on to, and get something else cheaper (like a .22LR) to use developing your shooting skill.

Good Luck, and let us know what you decide.

Oh, also want to add that the only REAL advantage to the shorter barrel guns is for troops getting in and out of vehicles, or in tight quarters, like house clearing. They are a little lighter, and much handier in some ways, but there's no free lunch, and you pay for that with reduced velocity and increased muzzle blast.