Light strikes or bad primers??

admiral44 · March 30, 2013, 02:42 PM

Hey Guys. Been working on an old Rossi 68 and wanted some opinions. I've just replaced the hammer spring cause I was getting "failure to fire" every now and again. Even after replacing spring I got 3 out of 50 today.

Take a look at the pic and tell me if you think its light strikes or maybe a bad primer issue?.. they are off center, but I think they should have gone boom.

Failures were all Remington small pistol primers BTW.

Thanks.

nanewt02 · March 30, 2013, 05:19 PM

I would bet my money on a damaged firing pin

jimmy lowboy · March 30, 2013, 06:12 PM

Cylinder not locking up on double action pull,or out of time? Just my guess.

BumbleBug · March 30, 2013, 08:12 PM

Some of those firing pin hits are really off-center. The first problem solver to try is different primers. Your primers maybe extra finicky to the off-center hits.

Do they go off if you snap them a second time? Try rotating them & shooting again. If they go off on a second chance it probably is due to tough cap or uneven primer compound. Try Fed match primers.

James K · March 30, 2013, 08:38 PM

If the firing pin strike is off center the chamber is not lined up with the firing pin hole, which probably means it is not lined up with the barrel either, and probably is not locking up properly.

That revolver needs some heavy duty work and it might not be worth it.

Jim

admiral44 · March 30, 2013, 10:06 PM

The firing pin is mounted on the hammer. The hits are not off center left-to-right... they are actually hitting low (closer to center of cylinder).

The primers do go off if hit a second time. The first hits seem strong enough though???

I probably need a new firing pin. As the hammer enters the frame, the firing pin (top rear) looks like it contacts the frame and elevates the nose of the firing pin. Maybe mine is wore at the top and not elevating it enough. There is a little play in there for more upward travel.

Thanks for the responses.

I will also try different primers. I know the gun is not worth much. But it has sentimental value and I would like it to be reliable.

jag2 · April 2, 2013, 12:25 AM

I have read that usually if round goes off on the second try its because the primer was too high and the first strike just seated it the rest of the way. I found it hard to believe at first but eventually came around and think it is valid. However, these are hard to figure out. Some of those look okay but some are really far off center. I don't think I've ever read anything about how far a strike needs to be off center before it makes a difference. Could be you actually have a couple of problems or maybe just ran across a few bad primers but I even question that because it looks like there a couple of copper looking primers that are a different brand. I'm stumped but I do have a question, do you have some shells that did go off the first time where the strike was way off?

Surgeon · April 2, 2013, 12:34 AM

Firing Pin.

What is the protrusion length?

Being off-center hits, all this tells you is that the mating of the barrel and action are off.

scottbird · November 4, 2013, 09:44 PM

I just got a rossi 223/20 guage. the shot gun barrel shoots every time, but the 223 just goes click. just bought some remington shells today, one shot the rest just went click. it is strikeing the primer well. is there a way to adjust the hammer spring tension?

Bart B. · November 7, 2013, 08:57 AM

I think the problem's two fold. Maybe three fold.

One issue is how much the firing pin sticks out of the breech face. Most primers have to be indented about .020" to reliably fire them. Some dents in those case heads shown look too shallow to me.

The other is the cylinder apears to be out of time; it doesn't lock up at the same place every time. The cylinder lock is worn, it fits too loose in the half-moon cutouts in the cylinder where it's supposed to fit tight and keep the chambers well aligned with both the bore and firing pin. With an empty chamber, cock then lower the firing pin all the way holding the trigger back, then see how much rotational slop there is for the cylinder. Do this for all chambers. If its circumference moves around any amount, that's a sign the lock is worn too much and possibly the cylinder, too.

And the firing pin, if a floating one, may be worn enough to strike different distances from cylinder center making the dents different distances from center.

James K · November 8, 2013, 01:25 PM

IIRC, that Rossi is made like an S&W. The firing pin moves up and down to conform to the firing pin channel in the frame so the firing pin strikes the primer straight on instead of downward. It looks to me like one problem is that the channel is oversize and allowing the firing pin to drop down. The solution is to replace the firing pin bushing in the frame, but that is not a part often found outside the factory or a major factory authorized service station. (Most owners and gunsmiths don't even know it's there.)

Since Rossi is now part of Taurus, you might try calling Taurus and seeing if they will repair the gun, but I wouldn't hold too much hope. Replacing the firing pin or the firing pin spring (mainspring) probably won't help; the good strikes seem perfectly adequate. It does look like there may be a few light strikes, though. The two cases on the right, second row from the front seem to have some primer extrusion, which indicates both an oversize firing pin hole (see above) and/or a light strike. The firing pin might be dragging on the bushing.

Jim

March 30, 2013, 02:42 PM	#1
admiral44 Junior Member Join Date: September 28, 2006 Posts: 3	Light strikes or bad primers?? Hey Guys. Been working on an old Rossi 68 and wanted some opinions. I've just replaced the hammer spring cause I was getting "failure to fire" every now and again. Even after replacing spring I got 3 out of 50 today. Take a look at the pic and tell me if you think its light strikes or maybe a bad primer issue?.. they are off center, but I think they should have gone boom. Failures were all Remington small pistol primers BTW. Thanks.

March 30, 2013, 08:12 PM	#4
BumbleBug Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2013 Location: Near Heart of Texas Posts: 870	Some of those firing pin hits are really off-center. The first problem solver to try is different primers. Your primers maybe extra finicky to the off-center hits. Do they go off if you snap them a second time? Try rotating them & shooting again. If they go off on a second chance it probably is due to tough cap or uneven primer compound. Try Fed match primers. Last edited by BumbleBug; March 30, 2013 at 09:20 PM.

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March 30, 2013, 05:19 PM	#2
nanewt02 Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2013 Posts: 249	I would bet my money on a damaged firing pin

March 30, 2013, 06:12 PM	#3
jimmy lowboy Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Posts: 19	Cylinder not locking up on double action pull,or out of time? Just my guess.

March 30, 2013, 08:38 PM	#5
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	If the firing pin strike is off center the chamber is not lined up with the firing pin hole, which probably means it is not lined up with the barrel either, and probably is not locking up properly. That revolver needs some heavy duty work and it might not be worth it. Jim

March 30, 2013, 10:06 PM	#6
admiral44 Junior Member Join Date: September 28, 2006 Posts: 3	The firing pin is mounted on the hammer. The hits are not off center left-to-right... they are actually hitting low (closer to center of cylinder). The primers do go off if hit a second time. The first hits seem strong enough though??? I probably need a new firing pin. As the hammer enters the frame, the firing pin (top rear) looks like it contacts the frame and elevates the nose of the firing pin. Maybe mine is wore at the top and not elevating it enough. There is a little play in there for more upward travel. Thanks for the responses. I will also try different primers. I know the gun is not worth much. But it has sentimental value and I would like it to be reliable.

April 2, 2013, 12:25 AM	#7
jag2 Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2009 Location: dallas Posts: 773	I have read that usually if round goes off on the second try its because the primer was too high and the first strike just seated it the rest of the way. I found it hard to believe at first but eventually came around and think it is valid. However, these are hard to figure out. Some of those look okay but some are really far off center. I don't think I've ever read anything about how far a strike needs to be off center before it makes a difference. Could be you actually have a couple of problems or maybe just ran across a few bad primers but I even question that because it looks like there a couple of copper looking primers that are a different brand. I'm stumped but I do have a question, do you have some shells that did go off the first time where the strike was way off?

April 2, 2013, 12:34 AM	#8
Surgeon Member Join Date: March 30, 2013 Posts: 16	Firing Pin. What is the protrusion length? Being off-center hits, all this tells you is that the mating of the barrel and action are off.

November 4, 2013, 09:44 PM	#9
scottbird Member Join Date: October 16, 2013 Location: jewell ridge va Posts: 20	I just got a rossi 223/20 guage. the shot gun barrel shoots every time, but the 223 just goes click. just bought some remington shells today, one shot the rest just went click. it is strikeing the primer well. is there a way to adjust the hammer spring tension?

November 7, 2013, 08:57 AM	#10
Bart B. Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 8,927	I think the problem's two fold. Maybe three fold. One issue is how much the firing pin sticks out of the breech face. Most primers have to be indented about .020" to reliably fire them. Some dents in those case heads shown look too shallow to me. The other is the cylinder apears to be out of time; it doesn't lock up at the same place every time. The cylinder lock is worn, it fits too loose in the half-moon cutouts in the cylinder where it's supposed to fit tight and keep the chambers well aligned with both the bore and firing pin. With an empty chamber, cock then lower the firing pin all the way holding the trigger back, then see how much rotational slop there is for the cylinder. Do this for all chambers. If its circumference moves around any amount, that's a sign the lock is worn too much and possibly the cylinder, too. And the firing pin, if a floating one, may be worn enough to strike different distances from cylinder center making the dents different distances from center.

November 8, 2013, 01:25 PM	#11
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	IIRC, that Rossi is made like an S&W. The firing pin moves up and down to conform to the firing pin channel in the frame so the firing pin strikes the primer straight on instead of downward. It looks to me like one problem is that the channel is oversize and allowing the firing pin to drop down. The solution is to replace the firing pin bushing in the frame, but that is not a part often found outside the factory or a major factory authorized service station. (Most owners and gunsmiths don't even know it's there.) Since Rossi is now part of Taurus, you might try calling Taurus and seeing if they will repair the gun, but I wouldn't hold too much hope. Replacing the firing pin or the firing pin spring (mainspring) probably won't help; the good strikes seem perfectly adequate. It does look like there may be a few light strikes, though. The two cases on the right, second row from the front seem to have some primer extrusion, which indicates both an oversize firing pin hole (see above) and/or a light strike. The firing pin might be dragging on the bushing. Jim