.357 Snubbie Load

[ipscchef]

Hi everyone.
I am looking for a load for my 340PD (1.75"bbl,) that will hopefully send a 125gr. XTP out at about 1000fps fairly efficiently without any more muzzle flash than is neccesary. I do not want a full house load if I can avoid it as with the heavy stuff the thing is very, very painful to my Arthritis ridden hands. I usually have a lot of fun working up all my loads by myself but do not want to waste any more of my PRECIOUS Powder and Primers than I have to.
Powders on Hand;
HP38-1lb
Unique -2lb
H110-2LB
Titegroup-2lb
Universal Clays -1lb

And I consider myself lucky to have those. I cannot find didly anywhere still!
I was just in Vermont for my Grandaughters Graduation and the Gun Store in Vermont and the Owner said he had actualy driven to Pa.(where I live) to
get the few pounds of powder he had on hand.
As for Primers, all I have on hand for this would be 400 Fed small pistol match primers.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.
P.S. Does anyone know what the min. velocity threshold is for the 125.gr. XTP to ensure expansion?

Thanks again,

Bill Henderson

[BobCat45]

Bill, this may not do you any good since I do not think any of the powders you list are as fast as Green Dot, but I found that a moderate amount (about 6.5 grains) of Green Dot drives a 125 grain jacketed bullet about 1100-1150 feet per second out of my 3"-barrel Model 13.

Full-power rounds, factory or reloaded using traditional magnum powders like H110, did not chronograph much over 1100 fps out of the short 3" barrel. Lots of shock and noise from powder still burning after the bullet left. In a 4" Security Six, or especially a 5" Vaquero, these same rounds were quite a lot faster.

I decided to try a much faster powder and, having a bunch of Green Dot on hand, looked in the old Alliant pamphlet and saw that it listed 7.3 grains of Green Dot as a max load. I started at 6 grains and worked up until the velocities matched the factory rounds. Same speed, much less drama.

If you can find some Bullseye (which is even faster, start low and watch out for double charges), or anything a little faster than Unique, you can accomplish what you desire. Unique will work but may not get you quite to 1,000 fps in your 1.75" barrel, with modest loads.

Wish I could be of more help.

Regards,
Andrew

[ipscchef]

Bobcat45,
thank you for the info, that might help a lot actually. The Gander Mountain near me had some Green Dot on the shelf on Thursday, the only reason I did not buy any was I had not worked with it before.
If they still have any I will see how it works and get back to you!

Thanks again,

Bill

[Hydraulicman]

Hmmm, I don't see a 125 grain bullet listed in my speer shortbarrel section


I do see a 135 grain gold dot short barrel

2.5 inch barrel 1109 with a max load of 7.8 grains unique.

That should land you close to 1000 fps out of your gun.

Sorry that's the best i can do with the manuals i have.

you could just call allient and ask them.


oh and use at your own risk.

[rn22723]

The go to powder would be H110, but you can not load it down so to speak. You can only reduce the max load by 3 percent. But, H110 or W296 are great for high performance 357 loads.

[zxcvbob]

That's a .357 Magnum, ain't it? If so, 8.0 grains of either Universal or Bullseye. If it's a .38 Special, the best you can do is 5.3 grains of Bullseye for about 800 fps.

[ipscchef]

Bob,
Yes it is a .357, a thirteen ounce .357!, but what I am trying to do is come up with a compramise load. I have advanced Ostioarthritis,well, everywhere and the full power stuff makes my hands feel like they have been hit with a drilling hammer after even one round. As a matter of fact your .38 load is exactly what I have stuffed into the thing now, and I am getting just under 800fps like you said.
I believe I can tolerate the recoil up to about 950-1000fps and am looking for a load someone has used in a snubbie that will give me that speed without excsessive flash and recoil. I am a firm believer in practicing with my carry load and want to be able to at least put 100 rounds a week through the gun without having to go back on pain pills.

I do not think H110 is going to give me the results I am looking for as it is slow burning. I need a quick burning powder to get the desired velocity from a 1.78" bbl.

Hydraulicman;
thank you for the info and I will try the load.

[zxcvbob]

8 grains of either Bullseye or Universal is a near-max load that will burn almost completely in a short barrel, and should give you between 1050 and 1100 fps with a 125 grain jacketed bullet. Start at 7.0 (either powder) and work your way up (or down) until you find something you like.

[Hydraulicman]

looks like .38+P could do what your asking

http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/cat...roducts_id=215

[Archie]

The H110 will give you the fastest velocity, without question. However, you don't want that, and as mentioned, H110 does not lend itself well to downloading.

Universal Clays, to my understanding, is a fairly fast powder. Getting to the velocity you want might put you at maximum or close to it.

HP38 is very similar (identical in composition) to WW231. I've used WW231 in .357 Magnum loads for 'middle magnum' load levels. That is, between 900 and 1100 fps with 158 grain loads. According to the Hodgdon Cartridge Data Center, HP38 minimum load is 7.3 grains and delivers about 1335. I don't remember it going that fast in my 4" revolver when chronographed. That might be too much of a good thing. But you can do it with the stuff you have. http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp if you want to look for yourself.

Unique - according to Lyman's #47 manual - says SEVEN (7) grains of Unique pushes a 125 grain JHP (Hornady bullet) from a .357 Magnum case at 990. Maximum load, somewhere around 9.5 (and I'm being vague on purpose) does 1359. Sounds like what you want with what you got. Again, 7.0 is the starting load.

These are for .357 Magnum cases, not .38 Special cases.

The flash is what the flash is. Both HP38 and Unique are faster than H110, so both should have less muzzle flash than H110. You're on your own, the Secretary disavows all knowledge, caveat emptor, Amen.

[Hydraulicman]

I put 15 or so 158 magtech .357 magnum threw a 340PD

That was enough for one day.

and I like shooting .500 smith and wesson and BFR in 45/70


that little .357 will blow your hair back.

[Unclenick]

Bill,

The short barrel is the challenge. The traditional H110/296 even with the case packed 100% does no better with that short tube than the faster powders for the reason that too little of it has burned by the time the bullet exits. Also, the short barrel guns suffer a lot of velocity extreme spread with slower powders. For that reason you really want to use the fastest stuff you've got. That's Tightgroup, which Hodgdon's burning rate chart shows is a little faster than Green Dot.

QuickLOAD thinks 7.2 grains of Tightgroup will get you to 1000 fps. QuickLOAD had good agreement with Hodgdon's velocity data for this powder with a 10" tube, so it is probably right within 50 fps. It is also a load recommendation that falls within Hodgdon's posted load data for the 125 grain XTP. That is 6.8 grains of Tightgroup to start and 7.5 grains max. I would try the starting load first and work up, seeing how it goes with your hands? Total recoil should be about as good as you will get for the velocity you want, since the fast powder ejects the least gas mass at the lowest muzzle pressure of the powders in your collection.

[ipscchef]

Thanks to everyone. The information you all have provided should get me on track for the load I am looking for.

Bill Henderson