AR15 for HD...what condition? - Page 2

BIG P · July 4, 2012, 03:39 AM

I live in the country & no kids With a dog that is pretty good early warning.So no# 2 works for me,with a Glock on the night stand the same way.

btmj · July 4, 2012, 08:16 AM

I BELIEVE (but I am not certain), that nearly all long guns lack a firing pin safety which pevents firing pin movement. This means that a dropped weapon can fire the round in the chamber, even if the trigger safety is on.

I know with certainty that this can happen with a mossberg pump shotgun, because in my foolish youth I dropped one while climbing a tree... shell in the chamber, safety on. After that I took more seriously the old NRA Hunters Safety rules "no round in the chamber while climbing or running".

This is why I do not keep any long gun in my house with a round in the chamber.

As far as I know, all modern handguns have a hammer/firing pin safety. Handguns can be safely carried with a round in the chamber.

Skadoosh · July 4, 2012, 08:29 AM

You would be better served to use "rifle conditions" to ask the question:

Condition 0 - A round is in the chamber, hammer is cocked, and the safety is off.

Condition 1 - Also known as "cocked and locked," means a round is in the chamber, the hammer is cocked, and the safety is on.

Condition 2 - A round is in the chamber and the hammer is down.

Condition 3 - The chamber is empty and hammer is down with a full magazine in the gun.

Condition 4 - The chamber is empty, hammer is down and no magazine is in the gun.

_____________________________________

I keep my HD rifles inside in condition 4. I also keep a couple of steel mags loaded with 60gr TAP at the ready attached to the outside of my rifle locker.

1911Alaska · July 4, 2012, 08:39 AM

Referring to your conditions where are you getting this from? I always go with Jeff Coopers.

Condition Four: Chamber empty, no magazine, hammer down.
Condition Three: Chamber empty, full magazine in place, hammer down.
Condition Two: A round chambered, full magazine in place, hammer down.
Condition One: A round chambered, full magazine in place, hammer cocked, safety on.
Condition Zero: A round chambered, full magazine in place, hammer cocked, safety off.

That being said. I am always condition one with my carry 1911 and my HD shotgun. For you though it depends. If your AR is the only gun you have for HD then I really hope you have it in condition 1 (like stated above). If you have a pistol or shotgun ready then I could understand not having it in condition one.

Caliber · July 24, 2012, 06:42 PM

fully loaded 30+1 in chamber, short barrel and a reeeeally bright flashlight on it and you're good to go. "condition 1"

Mr2005 · August 7, 2012, 04:48 PM

Another #1 vote

2damnold4this · August 7, 2012, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Condition 2 - A round is in the chamber and the hammer is down.

Isn't that condition "bang" with an AR?

Justice06RR · August 8, 2012, 08:10 PM

#1 for me also. Since the rifle is not in the open and I have to retrieve it from its concealed location in my home, I have time to chamber a round as I retreive it.

Pistols are always chambered ala "cocked and locked". As they say, you fight your way to your rifle with your pistol...

Shawn Thompson · August 10, 2012, 03:02 PM

Storage Mode: Charged magazine properly seated, bolt closed, hammer down on a empty chamber.

Tactical Jackalope · August 10, 2012, 03:16 PM

I only have my AR out for home defense if there's a hurricane happening, or some kind of nut bag on the loose. When I do it's chambered and ready to go man. No other way. No kids in the home either by the way

R1145 · August 15, 2012, 02:40 PM

Long answer: As a practical concern, the overriding consideration when keeping a weapon for home defense is protecting it from misuse. YMMV, but in my life I am far more likely to have someone accidentally discover my weapon than need to use it...just sayin'. You are generally criminally negligent if your home defense weapon is accessed by a child, for example.

Tactically, how the weapon is stored doesn't make much difference. The main thing is that you do it the same way every time so that when you wake up in the middle of the night, freaking out because someone is trying to kill you, you are not fumbling in the dark for your weapon.

Some good points were brought up, however. I had never considered the cook-off factor in the event of a house fire, and that seems valid. Also, ARs don't have a positive firing pin disconnect, so in theory it seems that empty chamber is safer, though practically, it is extremely unlikely that an AR will fire unless the trigger is pulled.

There is an issue with ARs, in that to load an empty chamber, generally you release the bolt to slam a round into the chamber, which makes quite a bit of noise. One technique is quietly ride the bolt forward with the charging handle, pushing the forward assist with the firing hand's thumb to ensure it locks in battery.

My $.02 worth, then, is a HD AR should be in a quick-release locking device, mag in, bolt forward, empty chamber, safety on. Practice deploying from the device in the dark, charging chamber and switching safety to fire as you do so.

lilgunz83 · August 31, 2012, 04:43 AM

Proper condition codes for the AR-15, aka M4/M16 service rifle.
Military firearms instruction.

Condition 1: Magazine inserted, Round in the chamber, Bolt forward, Safety on.

Condition 2: Does not apply to this weapon.

Condition 3:Magazine inserted, NO round in the chamber, Bolt forward, Safety on.

Condition 4: NO magazine inserted, NO round in the chamber, Bolt forward, Safety on.

Clear and Safe: NO magazine inserted, NO round in the chamber, Bolt Locked to the Rear, Safety on.

July 4, 2012, 08:29 AM	#28
Skadoosh Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2010 Location: Virginia Beach Posts: 2,016	You would be better served to use "rifle conditions" to ask the question: Condition 0 - A round is in the chamber, hammer is cocked, and the safety is off. Condition 1 - Also known as "cocked and locked," means a round is in the chamber, the hammer is cocked, and the safety is on. Condition 2 - A round is in the chamber and the hammer is down. Condition 3 - The chamber is empty and hammer is down with a full magazine in the gun. Condition 4 - The chamber is empty, hammer is down and no magazine is in the gun. _____________________________________ I keep my HD rifles inside in condition 4. I also keep a couple of steel mags loaded with 60gr TAP at the ready attached to the outside of my rifle locker. __________________ NRA Life Member USN Retired

July 4, 2012, 08:39 AM	#29
1911Alaska Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 2012 Posts: 139	Referring to your conditions where are you getting this from? I always go with Jeff Coopers. Condition Four: Chamber empty, no magazine, hammer down. Condition Three: Chamber empty, full magazine in place, hammer down. Condition Two: A round chambered, full magazine in place, hammer down. Condition One: A round chambered, full magazine in place, hammer cocked, safety on. Condition Zero: A round chambered, full magazine in place, hammer cocked, safety off. That being said. I am always condition one with my carry 1911 and my HD shotgun. For you though it depends. If your AR is the only gun you have for HD then I really hope you have it in condition 1 (like stated above). If you have a pistol or shotgun ready then I could understand not having it in condition one. Last edited by 1911Alaska; July 4, 2012 at 09:47 AM.

August 10, 2012, 03:02 PM	#34
Shawn Thompson Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2009 Location: Oklahoma City Posts: 101	Storage Mode: Charged magazine properly seated, bolt closed, hammer down on a empty chamber. __________________ Qui non proficit deficit

August 15, 2012, 02:40 PM	#36
R1145 Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 351	Short answer: Option 1 (with safety on)... Long answer: As a practical concern, the overriding consideration when keeping a weapon for home defense is protecting it from misuse. YMMV, but in my life I am far more likely to have someone accidentally discover my weapon than need to use it...just sayin'. You are generally criminally negligent if your home defense weapon is accessed by a child, for example. Tactically, how the weapon is stored doesn't make much difference. The main thing is that you do it the same way every time so that when you wake up in the middle of the night, freaking out because someone is trying to kill you, you are not fumbling in the dark for your weapon. Some good points were brought up, however. I had never considered the cook-off factor in the event of a house fire, and that seems valid. Also, ARs don't have a positive firing pin disconnect, so in theory it seems that empty chamber is safer, though practically, it is extremely unlikely that an AR will fire unless the trigger is pulled. There is an issue with ARs, in that to load an empty chamber, generally you release the bolt to slam a round into the chamber, which makes quite a bit of noise. One technique is quietly ride the bolt forward with the charging handle, pushing the forward assist with the firing hand's thumb to ensure it locks in battery. My $.02 worth, then, is a HD AR should be in a quick-release locking device, mag in, bolt forward, empty chamber, safety on. Practice deploying from the device in the dark, charging chamber and switching safety to fire as you do so. Last edited by R1145; August 15, 2012 at 03:10 PM.

July 4, 2012, 03:39 AM	#26
BIG P Senior Member Join Date: July 8, 2010 Location: North Georgia Posts: 1,679	I live in the country & no kids With a dog that is pretty good early warning.So no# 2 works for me,with a Glock on the night stand the same way.

July 4, 2012, 08:16 AM	#27
btmj Senior Member Join Date: November 1, 2011 Location: Near St. Louis, Missouri Posts: 864	I BELIEVE (but I am not certain), that nearly all long guns lack a firing pin safety which pevents firing pin movement. This means that a dropped weapon can fire the round in the chamber, even if the trigger safety is on. I know with certainty that this can happen with a mossberg pump shotgun, because in my foolish youth I dropped one while climbing a tree... shell in the chamber, safety on. After that I took more seriously the old NRA Hunters Safety rules "no round in the chamber while climbing or running". This is why I do not keep any long gun in my house with a round in the chamber. As far as I know, all modern handguns have a hammer/firing pin safety. Handguns can be safely carried with a round in the chamber.

July 24, 2012, 06:42 PM	#30
Caliber Member Join Date: January 30, 2008 Location: Louisiana Posts: 45	fully loaded 30+1 in chamber, short barrel and a reeeeally bright flashlight on it and you're good to go. "condition 1"

August 7, 2012, 04:48 PM	#31
Mr2005 Member Join Date: April 30, 2012 Posts: 32	Another #1 vote

August 8, 2012, 08:10 PM	#33
Justice06RR Senior Member Join Date: December 21, 2010 Location: Central FL Posts: 1,360	#1 for me also. Since the rifle is not in the open and I have to retrieve it from its concealed location in my home, I have time to chamber a round as I retreive it. Pistols are always chambered ala "cocked and locked". As they say, you fight your way to your rifle with your pistol...

August 10, 2012, 03:16 PM	#35
Tactical Jackalope Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2010 Location: Miami, Florida Posts: 6,429	I only have my AR out for home defense if there's a hurricane happening, or some kind of nut bag on the loose. When I do it's chambered and ready to go man. No other way. No kids in the home either by the way

August 31, 2012, 04:43 AM	#37
lilgunz83 Junior Member Join Date: August 31, 2012 Posts: 2	Proper condition codes for the AR-15, aka M4/M16 service rifle. Military firearms instruction. Condition 1: Magazine inserted, Round in the chamber, Bolt forward, Safety on. Condition 2: Does not apply to this weapon. Condition 3:Magazine inserted, NO round in the chamber, Bolt forward, Safety on. Condition 4: NO magazine inserted, NO round in the chamber, Bolt forward, Safety on. Clear and Safe: NO magazine inserted, NO round in the chamber, Bolt Locked to the Rear, Safety on.