The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old May 5, 2014, 08:53 PM   #1
grisbald
Member
 
Join Date: October 23, 2011
Posts: 75
Question about rifle cartridge not chambering

Last week I was at the range with my .243, shooting rounds that I had loaded with varying amounts of powder, looking for one my rifle liked the most. One of my rounds wouldn't chamber, bolt handle wouldn't close. So when I got home I dropped it in my LE Wilson gauge, and it fit fine. After inspecting the round further, I noticed that the primer wasn't set in fully.

These were Tula primers, and I have found that they can sometimes be a real tight fit getting them seated. Never experienced a high primer before since I've been reloading.

I figured that the bolt face was contacting the primer instead of the base of the case, so that meant the distance between bolt face and shoulder would have been increased, thus not allowing it to chamber. Am I close or totally wrong?
grisbald is offline  
Old May 5, 2014, 09:07 PM   #2
jepp2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 24, 2008
Location: Loveland, CO
Posts: 1,476
Quote:
I figured that the bolt face was contacting the primer instead of the base of the case, so that meant the distance between bolt face and shoulder would have been increased, thus not allowing it to chamber. Am I close or totally wrong?
Sounds like you are correct. You should be able to measure and confirm.
__________________
NRA Benefactor Life member
jepp2 is offline  
Old May 5, 2014, 09:24 PM   #3
Dave P
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 16, 1999
Location: North Florida
Posts: 1,346
FYI: wilson gage will give you headspace, but it does not verify the diameter of the cartridge.
__________________
I think this country is screwed.
Dave P is offline  
Old May 6, 2014, 01:09 AM   #4
Jim243
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 5, 2009
Location: Just off Route 66
Posts: 5,067
Quote:
Am I close or totally wrong?
Sounds like you are exact on your analysis. Simple test reset the primer deeper and try it in your rifle again.

Jim

__________________
Si vis pacem, para bellum
Jim243 is offline  
Old May 6, 2014, 07:05 AM   #5
steve4102
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 23, 2005
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,949
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim243
Sounds like you are exact on your analysis. Simple test reset the primer deeper and try it in your rifle again.
Please do not do this! You do not want to re-seat the primer on a loaded round.

Pull the bullet, remove the powder, then re-seat and see if it chambers.
steve4102 is offline  
Old May 6, 2014, 08:41 AM   #6
adrians
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 6, 2010
Location: mountain view ,ar.
Posts: 184
^^^ A+ advice.
Pull,Dump, then reseat the primer,,, I don't use Tula primers for this very reason,
__________________
instant karma's gonna get you , knock you right in the face...... j.w.l.
adrians is offline  
Old May 6, 2014, 08:51 AM   #7
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Austin, CO
Posts: 19,578
Question about rifle cartridge not chambering

Reseating a primer on a loaded round is not particularly dangerous. Don't apply undue force, it's not going to blow up. If I were worried about applying pressure to seat the primer, I'd be a lot more worried about hammering away on the whole round with a kinetic puller.

My biggest concern is that you'd even notice a high primer when chambering a round in a bolt gun. That bolt has unbelievable camming force. You can crush fit cartridges without much effort. Seating a primer shouldn't be very hard to do. I'd be surprised that you could even feel it.

Plus, how high could it be? You wouldn't be able to get it in and out of a shell holder if it was very high.

In other words, it seems to me that it's something besides the primer?
Brian Pfleuger is offline  
Old May 6, 2014, 09:06 AM   #8
waveslayer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 22, 2013
Posts: 246
It's your primer that needs to be seated deeper. I have experienced this before. Not a big deal just go back and seat the primer deeper. That's the biggest complaint about those primers is their size. They tend to be a tad larger then the other large primers
waveslayer is offline  
Old May 6, 2014, 09:28 AM   #9
Jim243
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 5, 2009
Location: Just off Route 66
Posts: 5,067
Quote:
You do not want to re-seat the primer on a loaded round.
You need approximately 35 ft. lbs to set off the primer powder into the anvil of the primer. Using a slow consistent pressure to re-seat the primer will not set it off, if it would you would never get any primers into your cases in the first place.

If you feel uneasy about doing this, then just toss the round away.

Brian has a good point about how high the primer is, if primed on a press, how did you get the case out of the case holder?? The other point is that a bolt does produce a lot of force when locking the lugs, and should have finished pushing the primer into the case.

So my question is "DO YOU HAVE TUMBLER MEDIA IN THE PRIMER POCKET OR FLASH HOLE???" Or was the case neck sized only and the shoulder of the case not set back enough, the picture I posted was of a case that was not set back enough to close the bolt?? Another issue might be that the profile of the bullet you are using and the OAL MAYBE too long for the throat of your rifle and it is getting hung up before fully filling the chamber.

jIM
__________________
Si vis pacem, para bellum

Last edited by Jim243; May 6, 2014 at 09:49 AM.
Jim243 is offline  
Old May 6, 2014, 09:51 AM   #10
Palmetto-Pride
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 31, 2009
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 2,071
I would never try to re-seat a primer on a charged round. Why temp Mr. Murphy and for what the cost of a primer...

To the OP what tool do you use to seat your primers? I use the Hornady hand press and I know with mine if the primer is not fully seated I cant remove the case from the shell holder because the primer will lock it in place if it sticks out pass the bottom of the case, I have had to take the shell holder with the stuck case in it and de-prime it on the press before to get the primer out and start over.
__________________
“The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”

-Margaret Thatcher-
Palmetto-Pride is offline  
Old May 6, 2014, 10:08 AM   #11
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Austin, CO
Posts: 19,578
Quote:
I use the Hornady hand press and I know with mine if the primer is not fully seated I cant remove the case from the shell holder because the primer will lock it in place if it sticks out pass the bottom of the case, I have had to take the shell holder with the stuck case in it and de-prime it on the press before to get the primer out and start over.
If you were just now trying to seat the primer and you didn't get it deep enough, what could possibly be the danger of simply pushing on it again? I've pressed on the same primer half a dozen times. None of them objected. I've seated them, unseated them, reseated them, seated them 1/2 way and then the rest of the way, unseated them half way and reseated them... I don't understand the fear of the primer.
__________________
Nobody plans to screw up their lives...
...they just don't plan not to.
-Andy Stanley
Brian Pfleuger is offline  
Old May 6, 2014, 01:03 PM   #12
Blindstitch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 14, 2013
Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Posts: 2,685
I had this problem last week and was using a lever action and it wouldn't press the primer in. I would be willing to try a bolt action.

For my case the primer was barely sticking up. Usually my lee prime tool doesn't release the shell if the primer is low. This one must have been a fluke.

If I sat it upright on a flat surface it had the slightest of wobble. I took the projectile out, reset the primer and assembled.

But another time I intentionally tried to blow a primer in an empty case. No matter how hard I pressed it didn't go boom. I even placed a small bb between the primer and hand prime and it still wouldn't blow.

But when it involves a loaded round i'm leery on pressing the primer anywhere. Just feels like a Wile E Coyote moment.

Blindstitch is offline  
Old May 6, 2014, 01:50 PM   #13
William T. Watts
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 20, 2010
Location: Central Arkansas
Posts: 1,074
"I would never try to re-seat a primer on a charged round, why tempt Mr. Murphy and for what the cost of a primer." I totally agree with this point of view, if you follow this logic there is no way anything can be damaged nor yourself injured. The logic that nothing will happen if you try to reseat the primer is lost on me, I believe in protect myself/yourself at all times then nothing will happen! William
William T. Watts is offline  
Old May 6, 2014, 11:14 PM   #14
steve4102
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 23, 2005
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,949
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim243
You need approximately 35 ft. lbs to set off the primer powder into the anvil of the primer. Using a slow consistent pressure to re-seat the primer will not set it off, if it would you would never get any primers into your cases in the first place.
I have had one primer in my life go off during seating, so it does happen.

We also do not know why the primer is high, it is possible, although unlikely, that there is something in the primer pocket keeping it high. Re-seating up against this may indeed set it off.

You and Brian go right ahead and seat primers in loaded rounds, I'll pass.
steve4102 is offline  
Old May 7, 2014, 11:25 AM   #15
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Austin, CO
Posts: 19,578
There are two question.

One, how likely is the primer to detonate?

Two, what will happen if it does?

The answer to one is, very unlikely. Primer compound takes a significant impact/shock to cause detonation. It is very difficult to set one off any other way. The odds are extremely low, particularly in the device that is DESIGNED to SAFELY seat primers.

The answer to two is, almost nothing will happen. See this video from SAAMI, watch from 2 minutes to about 3:30. Even the most powerful cartridges won't penetrate drywall from 7" away. Wear ear and eye protection, that's a good idea. Otherwise, its not going to hurt you.
__________________
Nobody plans to screw up their lives...
...they just don't plan not to.
-Andy Stanley
Brian Pfleuger is offline  
Old May 7, 2014, 08:40 PM   #16
Clark
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 4, 1999
Location: WA, the ever blue state
Posts: 4,678


In 2002 I necked down this 308 brass to 243 and some did not want to chamber.
So I pushed down on the bolt handle with ~ 100 pounds of force.

Then I had to pound open the bolt handle and pound out the case.

It seems that pinching the neck hard delays the bullet from moving, and that makes a pressure spike.
__________________
The word 'forum" does not mean "not criticizing books."
"Ad hominem fallacy" is not the same as point by point criticism of books. If you bought the book, and believe it all, it may FEEL like an ad hominem attack, but you might strive to accept other points of view may exist.
Are we a nation of competing ideas, or a nation of forced conformity of thought?
Clark is offline  
Old May 7, 2014, 11:15 PM   #17
steve4102
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 23, 2005
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,949
Brian, there is a difference between a round that is set off from the heat of a fire and a round where the primer ignites the powder charge.

I think you should test this for yourself. Take a loaded round, put it into a shell holder, then lock the shell holder in a vice of some sort making sure the entire case is exposed.

Now, take a punch and set the primer off. Report back if you can.
steve4102 is offline  
Old May 8, 2014, 07:09 AM   #18
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Austin, CO
Posts: 19,578
If you watch the video, you'd see that is exactly what they did.
Brian Pfleuger is offline  
Old May 8, 2014, 10:39 AM   #19
603Country
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 6, 2011
Location: Thornton, Texas
Posts: 3,995
There's very little chance that reseating a primer on a loaded round will blow up in your face. But...there is a chance. I'm not doing it, and I'm not going to ever recommend it. And I think anyone that does it is making a mistake.
603Country is offline  
Old May 8, 2014, 11:15 AM   #20
Jim243
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 5, 2009
Location: Just off Route 66
Posts: 5,067
Quote:
You and Brian go right ahead and seat primers in loaded rounds, I'll pass.
Steve, I said if you feel uneasy about doing this then toss the round away. But EVERY, not some not few, but EVERY case I reload is inspected for media in the primer pocket and EVERY flash hole is reamed to insure proper ignition of the round. EVERY SINGLE ONE.

Jim
__________________
Si vis pacem, para bellum
Jim243 is offline  
Old May 8, 2014, 01:32 PM   #21
Palmetto-Pride
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 31, 2009
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 2,071
Quote:
If you were just now trying to seat the primer and you didn't get it deep enough, what could possibly be the danger of simply pushing on it again?
Brian in the scenario I was describing I wasn't really trying to say that there would be any danger in trying to push on it again or harder on a uncharged case. I was simply explaining how with the Hornady hand press you pretty much have to seat the primer all the way or you cant get the case out of the shell holder.........so I was wondering what tool or method the OP uses to seat his primers that would allow the case to be removed from the shell holder and still stick out to far as not to be able to chamber a round because of it.
__________________
“The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”

-Margaret Thatcher-
Palmetto-Pride is offline  
Old May 8, 2014, 02:37 PM   #22
Slamfire
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 27, 2007
Posts: 5,261
I don't trust primers. I don't think anyone should trust primers. The least risky approach is to pull the bullet, dump the powder, maybe even, deprime, and start all over.

This guy tried to force a federal pistol primer in his LNL press. Probably a tight pocket. The primer went off.




I would not want to experience the effects of a full powder charge going off in my face, or in my press, regardless of any predicted theoretical benignness.
__________________
If I'm not shooting, I'm reloading.
Slamfire is offline  
Old May 8, 2014, 03:34 PM   #23
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Austin, CO
Posts: 19,578
I would suggest that anyone who is the least bit uncomfortable with it do not do it.

Alas, that picture took A LOT more than a primer to accomplish... and what part of a Hornady press is that?
__________________
Nobody plans to screw up their lives...
...they just don't plan not to.
-Andy Stanley
Brian Pfleuger is offline  
Old May 8, 2014, 04:25 PM   #24
Slamfire
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 27, 2007
Posts: 5,261
Quote:
Alas, that picture took A LOT more than a primer to accomplish... and what part of a Hornady press is that?
The primer tube. The structure above it is the roof.
__________________
If I'm not shooting, I'm reloading.
Slamfire is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:44 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.07927 seconds with 8 queries