First impressions: Remington 11-87 Police

Oleg Volk · October 20, 2000, 03:49 PM

A generous TFLer let me try his 1187P.

Last weekend I fired five slugs through it just to see how much it kicked (1oz Federals). Doesn't kick much, certainly less than my 20ga Winchester 1300 pump with 3/4ox slugs does.

This weekend, I went to shoot trap. Hardly any recoil at all, feels like a single-shot .410. Shot 100 rounds and do not feel them at all: even an AR15 would have more kick to it. Rifle sights turned out to be very good for trap: I broke pretty much every single and almost all doubles. With 20ga I am only good for 90% of singles. Down side is that Federal 7 1/2 trap loads didn't cycle properly 20% of the time: I got either stovepipes or the bolt locked back with ammo still in the magazine. Didn't matter much as to how I held the gun. I did not have other ammo types (AA trap, for instance) to see if that would have made any difference.

Good sides: hardly any recoil, good sights, comfortable mount and balance. Magazine holds sever 2 3/4" shells.

Bad sides: bolt carrier handle too small and badly shaped (fixable). Not reliable with light loads: not my gun so I am not sure as to why.

Other: weird manual of arms, though simpler by far than a Benelli M1 or Beretta 1201. The bolt release is built into the shell lifter so there's no way to load the magazine with the bolt open. OTOH, it is possible to load one in the chamber and then to start loading the mag: the first round into the tube also closes the bolt. The strong magazine spring makes loading in weird positions a bit tought, esp. as the shell must depress the slide release botton on the shell lifter in order to be loaded. Manual of arms is sensible but not similar to rifles (i.e. pulling the bolt handle back and releasing it does not close the bolt).

At least with trap shells, the gun hardly moves on recoil so I could fire very fast w/o losing my sight picture. It was MUCH faster than a Remington 11 (long recoil type). Can't compare it to the Benelle for speed but the ergonomics are more to my taste.

I like the gun and would forgo the ghost rings as the rifle sights are surprisingly good. For trap, the rear sight disappears and only the front sight registers at all.

------------------
Oleg "peacemonger" Volk

http://www.a-human-right.com
http://www.olegvolk.net

9x45 · October 20, 2000, 04:12 PM

Oleg, the SP is not designed for trap loads, as you found out. And there are aftermarket oversized bolt handle and safeties, plus a speed loader ramp that most guys put on the guns anyway.

Oleg Volk · October 20, 2000, 04:16 PM

The gun I used was a P, not an SP. Otherwise you are probaly correct. Could just use #4 or #6 shot on singles for practice, those ought to cycle. I let a left-handed 14yo try the gun and the empties did not hit him: they ejected right and front. Good gun, though I can't find one anywhere.

ljlcdl · October 20, 2000, 04:25 PM

Oleg - Where can one find information on this 11-87? It is not on Remington's website. I suspect it is some slight variation on their turkey 11-87.

ljlc

Oleg Volk · October 20, 2000, 04:47 PM

I found harly any info on it. Search TF archives for 11-87 or 1187. I will be posting pictures and a mini-review next week.

fed168 · October 20, 2000, 05:37 PM

When we were prepping for the NC Police Olympics, two colleagues were shooting the 11-87. I shot one and the extractor came apart into my hands, and the other gun was having functioning difficulties, for the life of me I cannot remember what caused it. Both problems easily fixed, and the guns were trouble free after that. I liked the handling and accuracy of it, no money to get one though.

Will Beararms · October 20, 2000, 10:53 PM

Oleg you already know this but for the benefit of others, I have shot an 11-87 SP 26" 3" magnum duck hunting for about three years. Once you get used to the manual of arms, the loading technique is great for duck hunting where you can only have three shells in the gun at a time any way.

As a lefty, the shells do eject but you still get powder in the face which is not good. The Beretta 390 I used before that was very reliable but it kept powder in my face. One more thing, I have raised up to quickly shoot the 11-87 SP in a hurry when an unexpected flight of Ducks landed on top of us in flooded timber and I would have my right hand over the ejection port. Believe me when I tell you that a hot ejected hull on your hand in 20 degree weather standing in water up to your waist does not feel good. I did it twice in one day last year.

Will Beararms · October 20, 2000, 11:01 PM

With regards to the kick. My father hunted until recently with a Benelli Super Black Eagle that was unbearable to use with 3 1/2" magnum shells and even 3" for that matter. He now has the new Remington SPS (I believe) 3 1/2" magnum which is much easier to shoot.

With the Benelli, he had given up on the 3 1/2" but he is considering going back to it with the new Remington.

The Remington is a much sturdier design in areas that count and they can take the punishment of being dropped in the water which is a factor of not if but when if you hunt in waders in flooded timber.

I still have the 11-87 SP but have gone with a lefty 870 Express for a change of pace this year. When it REALLY gets cold, the pumps keep on keeping on but they kick like a mule.

FWIW, Oleg as soon as I get a scanner, I will send you some surreal pictures of hunting in the hardwood river bottoms of South Arkansas. It appears as the land that time forgot and is quite peaceful.

Intel6 · October 21, 2000, 10:13 AM

Oleg,

great report on the 11-87P. I am glad you were able to try one out and found some things you like about them.

A few things:

I have fired lots of different loads through my 11-87P. My normal reload is a 3+ dram load with 1 oz. of shot which cycles fine. I tried some of the Federal 1 1/8 oz. loads I got a Wal Mart and they worked fine. The cheap 7/8 oz. loads they sell for dove season don't work at all. I am not sure but it may be an issue of being broken in? My 11-87P is has been fired quite a bit so I know it is broken in, not sure if that makes a difference?

As was said above, there are aftermarket bolt handles that really improve over the stock one. The handle snaps in with a ball detent so it is an easy change. The most common one (the one I have on mine) permits easy minpulation with the weak hand from either under or over the reciever.

Understand your dislike of the bolt release/lifter release. It "was" my one real complaint about the 1100/11-87 series SG's. There are a few different ways to make it better. There is a thing called an easy loader that replaces the button and gives you a little set of rails to guide the shell into the magazine. It works great but I personally feel it doesn't belong on a "tactical" shotgun. Another choice is an extended version of the button. It sticks out more so it is easier to hit as you load. Theses are OK but the final option is my choice as the best for a SG of this type. It was something I saw Vang Comp offer as a conversion for the 1100/11-87. They basically converted the lifter of the 11-87 to an 870 version. When I found this out I just orderd a 870 lifter and installed it in my 11-87P. What you end up with is a 11-87 that loads like an 870, no buttons to push, just stick it in. Doing this removes the bolt hold open mechanism. Since I have only done this to my dedicated "tactical" 11-87P I don't have a problem with it. Since you should never have an empty gun, having a bolt hold open is useless.

ljlcdl,

The 11-87P is the Police version of the 11-87. It is like the SP version but it has an extended magazine and it parkerized. It is made to function with heavier loads only unlike the regular 11-87. Since Remington has a policy of not offering their "Police" tpe weapons to the public, you will not find any info about them on their site.

Here is a pic (I know, it fuzzy) of my 11-87P with a side saddle and a set of MMC ghostrings installed:

[This message has been edited by Intel6 (edited October 21, 2000).]

hksigwalther · October 21, 2000, 12:56 PM

Whoa Intel6,

Is that debris behind your shotgun or do you have a shark fin on top of the muzzle (for the MMC GR).

------------------
- Ron V.

Intel6 · October 23, 2000, 08:23 AM

It does kind of look like that doesn't it. That is the MMC band front sight. You usually see the front blade on the VC guns with MMC's but they have to be soldered on and then I would have had to refinish the barrel. This one slips on and is tightened without having to do anything else other than knock off the front bead. Go here and scroll down for a better look:
http://www.mmcsight.com/mmcghost.html

I actually like this front sight alot. It has a tritium dot and has the wings on the sides that protect it and keep it from hanging up on things. I also like ti becasue it gives you a classic sight picture, kind of like looking through a garand.

hksigwalther · October 23, 2000, 06:10 PM

Oh I've got the MMCs on one of my 590s but I didn't recall it being that tall (non-tritium). (Don't have it with me right now.) Maybe I should look at it from the side once in a while, it's probably as tall if not taller than your's. I thought maybe you did get a front sight soldered on.

------------------
- Ron V.

October 20, 2000, 03:49 PM	#1
Oleg Volk Staff Alumnus Join Date: December 6, 1999 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 7,022	A generous TFLer let me try his 1187P. Last weekend I fired five slugs through it just to see how much it kicked (1oz Federals). Doesn't kick much, certainly less than my 20ga Winchester 1300 pump with 3/4ox slugs does. This weekend, I went to shoot trap. Hardly any recoil at all, feels like a single-shot .410. Shot 100 rounds and do not feel them at all: even an AR15 would have more kick to it. Rifle sights turned out to be very good for trap: I broke pretty much every single and almost all doubles. With 20ga I am only good for 90% of singles. Down side is that Federal 7 1/2 trap loads didn't cycle properly 20% of the time: I got either stovepipes or the bolt locked back with ammo still in the magazine. Didn't matter much as to how I held the gun. I did not have other ammo types (AA trap, for instance) to see if that would have made any difference. Good sides: hardly any recoil, good sights, comfortable mount and balance. Magazine holds sever 2 3/4" shells. Bad sides: bolt carrier handle too small and badly shaped (fixable). Not reliable with light loads: not my gun so I am not sure as to why. Other: weird manual of arms, though simpler by far than a Benelli M1 or Beretta 1201. The bolt release is built into the shell lifter so there's no way to load the magazine with the bolt open. OTOH, it is possible to load one in the chamber and then to start loading the mag: the first round into the tube also closes the bolt. The strong magazine spring makes loading in weird positions a bit tought, esp. as the shell must depress the slide release botton on the shell lifter in order to be loaded. Manual of arms is sensible but not similar to rifles (i.e. pulling the bolt handle back and releasing it does not close the bolt). At least with trap shells, the gun hardly moves on recoil so I could fire very fast w/o losing my sight picture. It was MUCH faster than a Remington 11 (long recoil type). Can't compare it to the Benelle for speed but the ergonomics are more to my taste. I like the gun and would forgo the ghost rings as the rifle sights are surprisingly good. For trap, the rear sight disappears and only the front sight registers at all. ------------------ Oleg "peacemonger" Volk http://www.a-human-right.com http://www.olegvolk.net

October 20, 2000, 04:12 PM	#2
9x45 Senior Member Join Date: January 14, 2000 Location: Southern California Posts: 1,089	Oleg, the SP is not designed for trap loads, as you found out. And there are aftermarket oversized bolt handle and safeties, plus a speed loader ramp that most guys put on the guns anyway.

October 20, 2000, 04:16 PM	#3
Oleg Volk Staff Alumnus Join Date: December 6, 1999 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 7,022	The gun I used was a P, not an SP. Otherwise you are probaly correct. Could just use #4 or #6 shot on singles for practice, those ought to cycle. I let a left-handed 14yo try the gun and the empties did not hit him: they ejected right and front. Good gun, though I can't find one anywhere.

October 20, 2000, 04:25 PM	#4
ljlcdl Member Join Date: July 9, 2000 Posts: 80	Oleg - Where can one find information on this 11-87? It is not on Remington's website. I suspect it is some slight variation on their turkey 11-87. ljlc

October 20, 2000, 04:47 PM	#5
Oleg Volk Staff Alumnus Join Date: December 6, 1999 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 7,022	I found harly any info on it. Search TF archives for 11-87 or 1187. I will be posting pictures and a mini-review next week.

October 20, 2000, 05:37 PM	#6
fed168 Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2000 Posts: 1,040	When we were prepping for the NC Police Olympics, two colleagues were shooting the 11-87. I shot one and the extractor came apart into my hands, and the other gun was having functioning difficulties, for the life of me I cannot remember what caused it. Both problems easily fixed, and the guns were trouble free after that. I liked the handling and accuracy of it, no money to get one though.

October 20, 2000, 10:53 PM	#7
Will Beararms Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 1999 Location: North Texas Posts: 2,834	Oleg you already know this but for the benefit of others, I have shot an 11-87 SP 26" 3" magnum duck hunting for about three years. Once you get used to the manual of arms, the loading technique is great for duck hunting where you can only have three shells in the gun at a time any way. As a lefty, the shells do eject but you still get powder in the face which is not good. The Beretta 390 I used before that was very reliable but it kept powder in my face. One more thing, I have raised up to quickly shoot the 11-87 SP in a hurry when an unexpected flight of Ducks landed on top of us in flooded timber and I would have my right hand over the ejection port. Believe me when I tell you that a hot ejected hull on your hand in 20 degree weather standing in water up to your waist does not feel good. I did it twice in one day last year.

October 20, 2000, 11:01 PM	#8
Will Beararms Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 1999 Location: North Texas Posts: 2,834	With regards to the kick. My father hunted until recently with a Benelli Super Black Eagle that was unbearable to use with 3 1/2" magnum shells and even 3" for that matter. He now has the new Remington SPS (I believe) 3 1/2" magnum which is much easier to shoot. With the Benelli, he had given up on the 3 1/2" but he is considering going back to it with the new Remington. The Remington is a much sturdier design in areas that count and they can take the punishment of being dropped in the water which is a factor of not if but when if you hunt in waders in flooded timber. I still have the 11-87 SP but have gone with a lefty 870 Express for a change of pace this year. When it REALLY gets cold, the pumps keep on keeping on but they kick like a mule. FWIW, Oleg as soon as I get a scanner, I will send you some surreal pictures of hunting in the hardwood river bottoms of South Arkansas. It appears as the land that time forgot and is quite peaceful.

October 21, 2000, 10:13 AM	#9
Intel6 Senior Member Join Date: October 13, 2000 Posts: 425	Oleg, great report on the 11-87P. I am glad you were able to try one out and found some things you like about them. A few things: I have fired lots of different loads through my 11-87P. My normal reload is a 3+ dram load with 1 oz. of shot which cycles fine. I tried some of the Federal 1 1/8 oz. loads I got a Wal Mart and they worked fine. The cheap 7/8 oz. loads they sell for dove season don't work at all. I am not sure but it may be an issue of being broken in? My 11-87P is has been fired quite a bit so I know it is broken in, not sure if that makes a difference? As was said above, there are aftermarket bolt handles that really improve over the stock one. The handle snaps in with a ball detent so it is an easy change. The most common one (the one I have on mine) permits easy minpulation with the weak hand from either under or over the reciever. Understand your dislike of the bolt release/lifter release. It "was" my one real complaint about the 1100/11-87 series SG's. There are a few different ways to make it better. There is a thing called an easy loader that replaces the button and gives you a little set of rails to guide the shell into the magazine. It works great but I personally feel it doesn't belong on a "tactical" shotgun. Another choice is an extended version of the button. It sticks out more so it is easier to hit as you load. Theses are OK but the final option is my choice as the best for a SG of this type. It was something I saw Vang Comp offer as a conversion for the 1100/11-87. They basically converted the lifter of the 11-87 to an 870 version. When I found this out I just orderd a 870 lifter and installed it in my 11-87P. What you end up with is a 11-87 that loads like an 870, no buttons to push, just stick it in. Doing this removes the bolt hold open mechanism. Since I have only done this to my dedicated "tactical" 11-87P I don't have a problem with it. Since you should never have an empty gun, having a bolt hold open is useless. ljlcdl, The 11-87P is the Police version of the 11-87. It is like the SP version but it has an extended magazine and it parkerized. It is made to function with heavier loads only unlike the regular 11-87. Since Remington has a policy of not offering their "Police" tpe weapons to the public, you will not find any info about them on their site. Here is a pic (I know, it fuzzy) of my 11-87P with a side saddle and a set of MMC ghostrings installed: [This message has been edited by Intel6 (edited October 21, 2000).]

October 21, 2000, 12:56 PM	#10
hksigwalther Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 1998 Location: NE OH, USA Posts: 3,198	Whoa Intel6, Is that debris behind your shotgun or do you have a shark fin on top of the muzzle (for the MMC GR). ------------------ - Ron V.

October 23, 2000, 08:23 AM	#11
Intel6 Senior Member Join Date: October 13, 2000 Posts: 425	It does kind of look like that doesn't it. That is the MMC band front sight. You usually see the front blade on the VC guns with MMC's but they have to be soldered on and then I would have had to refinish the barrel. This one slips on and is tightened without having to do anything else other than knock off the front bead. Go here and scroll down for a better look: http://www.mmcsight.com/mmcghost.html I actually like this front sight alot. It has a tritium dot and has the wings on the sides that protect it and keep it from hanging up on things. I also like ti becasue it gives you a classic sight picture, kind of like looking through a garand.

October 23, 2000, 06:10 PM	#12
hksigwalther Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 1998 Location: NE OH, USA Posts: 3,198	Oh I've got the MMCs on one of my 590s but I didn't recall it being that tall (non-tritium). (Don't have it with me right now.) Maybe I should look at it from the side once in a while, it's probably as tall if not taller than your's. I thought maybe you did get a front sight soldered on. ------------------ - Ron V.