Martial Arts Advice

Caeca Invidia Es · January 30, 2000, 07:13 AM

I'm thinking of taking up a martial arts course, mostly to get in shape. I was just wondering if there was warning signs I should watch for when scoping out local training facilities, that would say go some where else?

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"Freedom has always existed in a very percurious balance. And when buildings stop blowing up, people’s priorities tend to change..." Enemy of the State

KaliSIG · January 30, 2000, 04:34 PM

Visit a few martial arts schools of varrying styles to get a feel for them. DON'T buy into their hype. A lot of them will try to tell you that their style is THE BEST AND MOST EFFECTIVE. In reality, it's the fighter that actually makes the style. Hope that makes sense to you. Keep in mind that there are three distances in any given fight. First distance is long distance or kicking distance. Second is medium distance or punching distance. And third is short/close distance, which is grappling/wrestling distance. Make sure that whichever style or school you decide to go to trains it's students in all distances. Although your main purpose to train is to get in shape, you should consider keeping your training as realistic as possible. Often times, people will take an aerobic kickboxing class and think they're fighters. They're given a false sense of security. The way you train in a dojo or gym will be the way you react in a real situation. So learn it right the first time, or all you'll be doing is perfecting the wrong technique. Hope that helps.

Adrian

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"No matter how deadly you may be, you must contain your art within the sphere of good motives against a background of peaceful intentions."
G.M. Ramiro U. Estalilla

Caeca Invidia Es · January 30, 2000, 05:17 PM

I see self-defense as an added bonus to getting into shape through martial arts, that is why I am looking into this option as opposed to standard exercise. Thanks for the advice, I'll keep the three distances in mind when I am looking at facilities.

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"Freedom has always existed in a very percurious balance. And when buildings stop blowing up, people’s priorities tend to change..." Enemy of the State

Boneyard · January 30, 2000, 09:49 PM

As a martial artist and instructor myself I can give you some insight on this matter...
First decide what it is you are after..if you want to learn traditional martial arts for discipline, physical fitness, and unity of mind and Body, seek out a traditional, Asian master and train diligebtly under him.
If you are looking for a more self-defense/street fighting type of thing, Look up a good Jeet Koon Do instructor...
One thing to look out for, Is a school that trains constantly for tournaments and competitions...I have seen too many young people messed up trying to get a plastic trophy...besides real life situations have no rules as the competitions do..As you practice so shall you perform...
Also Kali left out something...There are FOUR ranges that a fight can happen..
1.Punching distance
2.Kicking distance
3.Grapling/wrestling distance(and I don't mean the wwf either)
4.TRAPPING distance
this is the range most martial artists dont know how to use...this is where you work up close and use Elnows,knees, headbutts, eyepokes earslaps...etc...

By the way I have trained Mostly in Tae-Kwon-do, Tang soo Do Pa kua chang kung foo and Jeet koon do...

so to sum it up...
It doesn't really matter what style you train in..just stick with it...Use what works for you and dont try to do what wont work for you..
Hope this helps

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Gun Control is being able to put two rounds in the same hole at 25 yards..

larry_minn · January 31, 2000, 04:37 PM

Boneyard: You sound like someone I might know. Do you know a Mr. Church?? Vangorup?
I would agree with above and also add to ask if you can just observe a few classes. Also don't commit to year long contracts until you have been there at least a month. I personally like the instructors mindset over other concerns. First class he said words to the effect. "If you are here to learn how to be a bad ass and beat up people there is the door! If I or anyone else hears that you have been using what we teach here to harm someone I will have one of the junior instructors have a talk with you. If that isn't enough the assistant instructor will (talk with you) if need be I will have a private (talk) with you. etc etc."
Don't be discouraged if you don't get to spar for a few months. It was almost 5 months before we were allowed to spar. Now I hear it is the 3rd class. "too short attention spans"IMO

Boneyard · January 31, 2000, 05:14 PM

No, Larry, I don't know any of them...

One of the first things I tell my students is "that the prisons are full of people who can kick someone in the head"

Also I tell them "To fight 1000 battles and have 1000 victories is nothing:
To subdue your opponent without fighting is the true meaning of victory"

Remember: it's very easy to hurt someone, be it physically or mentally...One should train in the Martial arts to Not hurt people...think about it..

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A MASTER OF HIS ART REVEALS IT IN EVERYTHING HE DOES

Skorzeny · February 1, 2000, 02:32 PM

Since the original question was about what martial art to choose "mostly to get into shape," rather than for self-defense, I recommend the following:

Boxing
Kickboxing
Muay Thai
Judo
Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

Thse are basically arts that incorporate, dynamic, uncooperative, even competitive, sparring and training.

Come to think of it, most of them (particularly Muay Thai and BJJ) are great for self-defense, too.

Skorzeny

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For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the supreme excellence. Sun Tzu

Cyric13 · February 3, 2000, 12:59 AM

Also look for a style that suits your body type. Certain things you can't change about your body so make sure whatever style you chose it fits your basic body type. Do a lot of reseach reading and narrow it down to a few and go and see it in action. Then pick.

Cyric13

sryan · February 4, 2000, 06:21 PM

JKD Jeet Kune Do "The correct spelling"
is a good all around Martial Art it covers
all the different ranges. Thats way Bruce Lee was so good.

Boneyard · February 5, 2000, 06:02 PM

Pardon my spelling..."The way of the intercepting fist" or Jeet Kune Do is an eclectic art designed mainly for self defense and focusing on economy of motion..
I believe it to be one of the most practical fighting techniques in the world..

------------------
A MASTER OF HIS ART REVEALS IT IN EVERYTHING HE DOES

Schmit · February 5, 2000, 11:21 PM

Caseca

I, too, am also looking for the same reasons. Unfortunitly there is only one Dojo located within 50 miles of where I live.

Boneyard; What are your impressions of Kuk Sool Won? I attended a class this past Thursday with my daughter who will be joining me. Another class is scheduled for Tuesday. Is it a "practical" Art?

I was more concerned with the Instructor during the first class and how he interacted with the students. Got there .5 hour early and watched his "Middle" class (7 - 13 year olds). What impressed me the most was that in our class there was a lady that had some physical disabilities (looked to me like a bad stroke had damaged her right side, she could not walk very well and had almost no use of her right hand).

He was teaching the class a takedown technique for when someone grabs you by/up around your collar. It was a "lock wrist joint pressure" (???) technique. When it was this ladies turn she hobbled up. The assistant grabbed her and the Instructor had him stop. You could see the Instructor thinking, he started "thinking" with his arms, trying out something. He then instructed her to reach like this, grab like this, step in, bend, etc. He adapted the technique to her physical limitations.

That, IMO, is a good tacher.

------------------
Schmit
GySgt, USMC(Ret)
NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS
"Si vis Pacem Para Bellum"

Skorzeny · February 7, 2000, 10:19 AM

Schmit:

IMHO, the practicality of Kuk Sul Won is limited.

Another good system for both fitness and self-defense is Shooto (also called Shootfighting or Shootwrestling), which incorporates both standup striking and grappling techniques and makes use of static drills and dynamic, full-force sparring/grappling for training.

Shooto is becoming more popular as Shooto practitioners are becoming more dominant in no-holds barred events.

Skorzeny

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For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the supreme excellence. Sun Tzu

[This message has been edited by Skorzeny (edited February 07, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Skorzeny (edited February 07, 2000).]

scyman · February 8, 2000, 04:45 PM

i would also recommend brazilian jiu jitsu (if you can find a qualified teacher in your area) as well as muay thai. i primarily train bjj, and started out training muay thai. i've dabbled in jeet kune do, but found the trapping rather unrealistic (i don't posess the same talents as bruce himself) and feel only few people can really pull it off in a real fight situation against someone who knows what they're doing. i wouldn't really include the trapping distance as a fighting distance, since you rarely find youself in that position for much longer than a split second. if a guy is that close to you, it most likely means he trying for a clinch, which he'll most likely get if you're trying to trap. i'm very biased towards brazilian jiu jitsu since it's such a unique art, as it allows people of ALL body types to easily learn it and use it effectively. it's a proven system in the streets, as it was primarily designed for the real street fight situation, but you have to remember it's probably not as practical when fighting several other people at the same time, or fighting against an opponent who has a weapon. it's also one of the best workouts you can get since you must use every muscle in your body, EVERY muscle! plus, you'll just fall in love with it once you start training, it eventually becomes an integral part of your life. what i do like about jkd is the eye gouges, which could save you from a dangerous situation if you pull it off. good luck, by starting any martial art, when you find a good school, your quality of life will improve regardless of the style!

Schmit · February 8, 2000, 07:30 PM

Thanks for the advice.

What I'm going to do is start with Kuk Sool Won and "get back into shape" then after about a year... with "some" experience under my belt look to expand into another Art.

Again... Thanks.

------------------
Schmit
GySgt, USMC(Ret)
NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS
"Si vis Pacem Para Bellum"

Caeca Invidia Es · February 9, 2000, 07:03 AM

Thanks for all the advice everyone.

------------------
"Freedom has always existed in a very percurious balance. And when buildings stop blowing up, people’s priorities tend to change..." Enemy of the State

Devin · February 9, 2000, 05:18 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KaliSIG:
Visit a few martial arts schools of varrying styles to get a feel for them. DON'T buy into their hype. A lot of them will try to tell you that their style is THE BEST AND MOST EFFECTIVE. In reality, it's the fighter that actually makes the style. Hope that makes sense to you. Keep in mind that there are three distances in any given fight. First distance is long distance or kicking distance. Second is medium distance or punching distance. And third is short/close distance, which is grappling/wrestling distance. Make sure that whichever style or school you decide to go to trains it's students in all distances. Although your main purpose to train is to get in shape, you should consider keeping your training as realistic as possible. Often times, people will take an aerobic kickboxing class and think they're fighters. They're given a false sense of security. The way you train in a dojo or gym will be the way you react in a real situation. So learn it right the first time, or all you'll be doing is perfecting the wrong technique. Hope that helps.

Adrian
[/quote]

I disagree on one thing. You have forgotten one range. That is trapping range. This range if practiced along with the other three you mentioned can be the most effective. Trapping range allows you to use other weapons that kicking range, and punching range is stuck with. JKD emphasized this alot. It is very useful and I reccomend everyone see it it applies to them.

January 30, 2000, 07:13 AM	#1
Caeca Invidia Es Staff Alumnus Join Date: November 18, 1999 Location: Earth Posts: 834	I'm thinking of taking up a martial arts course, mostly to get in shape. I was just wondering if there was warning signs I should watch for when scoping out local training facilities, that would say go some where else? ------------------ "Freedom has always existed in a very percurious balance. And when buildings stop blowing up, people’s priorities tend to change..." Enemy of the State

January 30, 2000, 04:34 PM	#2
KaliSIG Member Join Date: January 12, 2000 Posts: 29	Visit a few martial arts schools of varrying styles to get a feel for them. DON'T buy into their hype. A lot of them will try to tell you that their style is THE BEST AND MOST EFFECTIVE. In reality, it's the fighter that actually makes the style. Hope that makes sense to you. Keep in mind that there are three distances in any given fight. First distance is long distance or kicking distance. Second is medium distance or punching distance. And third is short/close distance, which is grappling/wrestling distance. Make sure that whichever style or school you decide to go to trains it's students in all distances. Although your main purpose to train is to get in shape, you should consider keeping your training as realistic as possible. Often times, people will take an aerobic kickboxing class and think they're fighters. They're given a false sense of security. The way you train in a dojo or gym will be the way you react in a real situation. So learn it right the first time, or all you'll be doing is perfecting the wrong technique. Hope that helps. Adrian ------------------ "No matter how deadly you may be, you must contain your art within the sphere of good motives against a background of peaceful intentions." G.M. Ramiro U. Estalilla

January 30, 2000, 05:17 PM	#3
Caeca Invidia Es Staff Alumnus Join Date: November 18, 1999 Location: Earth Posts: 834	I see self-defense as an added bonus to getting into shape through martial arts, that is why I am looking into this option as opposed to standard exercise. Thanks for the advice, I'll keep the three distances in mind when I am looking at facilities. ------------------ "Freedom has always existed in a very percurious balance. And when buildings stop blowing up, people’s priorities tend to change..." Enemy of the State

January 30, 2000, 09:49 PM	#4
Boneyard Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2000 Posts: 158	As a martial artist and instructor myself I can give you some insight on this matter... First decide what it is you are after..if you want to learn traditional martial arts for discipline, physical fitness, and unity of mind and Body, seek out a traditional, Asian master and train diligebtly under him. If you are looking for a more self-defense/street fighting type of thing, Look up a good Jeet Koon Do instructor... One thing to look out for, Is a school that trains constantly for tournaments and competitions...I have seen too many young people messed up trying to get a plastic trophy...besides real life situations have no rules as the competitions do..As you practice so shall you perform... Also Kali left out something...There are FOUR ranges that a fight can happen.. 1.Punching distance 2.Kicking distance 3.Grapling/wrestling distance(and I don't mean the wwf either) 4.TRAPPING distance this is the range most martial artists dont know how to use...this is where you work up close and use Elnows,knees, headbutts, eyepokes earslaps...etc... By the way I have trained Mostly in Tae-Kwon-do, Tang soo Do Pa kua chang kung foo and Jeet koon do... so to sum it up... It doesn't really matter what style you train in..just stick with it...Use what works for you and dont try to do what wont work for you.. Hope this helps ------------------ Gun Control is being able to put two rounds in the same hole at 25 yards..

January 31, 2000, 04:37 PM	#5
larry_minn Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 1999 Location: Minnesota, wow Posts: 219	Boneyard: You sound like someone I might know. Do you know a Mr. Church?? Vangorup? I would agree with above and also add to ask if you can just observe a few classes. Also don't commit to year long contracts until you have been there at least a month. I personally like the instructors mindset over other concerns. First class he said words to the effect. "If you are here to learn how to be a bad ass and beat up people there is the door! If I or anyone else hears that you have been using what we teach here to harm someone I will have one of the junior instructors have a talk with you. If that isn't enough the assistant instructor will (talk with you) if need be I will have a private (talk) with you. etc etc." Don't be discouraged if you don't get to spar for a few months. It was almost 5 months before we were allowed to spar. Now I hear it is the 3rd class. "too short attention spans"IMO

January 31, 2000, 05:14 PM	#6
Boneyard Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2000 Posts: 158	No, Larry, I don't know any of them... One of the first things I tell my students is "that the prisons are full of people who can kick someone in the head" Also I tell them "To fight 1000 battles and have 1000 victories is nothing: To subdue your opponent without fighting is the true meaning of victory" Remember: it's very easy to hurt someone, be it physically or mentally...One should train in the Martial arts to Not hurt people...think about it.. ------------------ A MASTER OF HIS ART REVEALS IT IN EVERYTHING HE DOES

February 1, 2000, 02:32 PM	#7
Skorzeny Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 1999 Posts: 1,938	Since the original question was about what martial art to choose "mostly to get into shape," rather than for self-defense, I recommend the following: Boxing Kickboxing Muay Thai Judo Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Thse are basically arts that incorporate, dynamic, uncooperative, even competitive, sparring and training. Come to think of it, most of them (particularly Muay Thai and BJJ) are great for self-defense, too. Skorzeny ------------------ For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the supreme excellence. Sun Tzu

February 3, 2000, 12:59 AM	#8
Cyric13 Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 1999 Location: Statsboro Posts: 159	Also look for a style that suits your body type. Certain things you can't change about your body so make sure whatever style you chose it fits your basic body type. Do a lot of reseach reading and narrow it down to a few and go and see it in action. Then pick. Cyric13

February 4, 2000, 06:21 PM	#9
sryan Junior Member Join Date: February 2, 2000 Posts: 7	JKD Jeet Kune Do "The correct spelling" is a good all around Martial Art it covers all the different ranges. Thats way Bruce Lee was so good.

February 5, 2000, 06:02 PM	#10
Boneyard Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2000 Posts: 158	Pardon my spelling..."The way of the intercepting fist" or Jeet Kune Do is an eclectic art designed mainly for self defense and focusing on economy of motion.. I believe it to be one of the most practical fighting techniques in the world.. ------------------ A MASTER OF HIS ART REVEALS IT IN EVERYTHING HE DOES

February 5, 2000, 11:21 PM	#11
Schmit Staff Alumnus Join Date: March 11, 1999 Location: Masquito infested flatlands of Mid-FL Posts: 1,857	Caseca I, too, am also looking for the same reasons. Unfortunitly there is only one Dojo located within 50 miles of where I live. Boneyard; What are your impressions of Kuk Sool Won? I attended a class this past Thursday with my daughter who will be joining me. Another class is scheduled for Tuesday. Is it a "practical" Art? I was more concerned with the Instructor during the first class and how he interacted with the students. Got there .5 hour early and watched his "Middle" class (7 - 13 year olds). What impressed me the most was that in our class there was a lady that had some physical disabilities (looked to me like a bad stroke had damaged her right side, she could not walk very well and had almost no use of her right hand). He was teaching the class a takedown technique for when someone grabs you by/up around your collar. It was a "lock wrist joint pressure" (???) technique. When it was this ladies turn she hobbled up. The assistant grabbed her and the Instructor had him stop. You could see the Instructor thinking, he started "thinking" with his arms, trying out something. He then instructed her to reach like this, grab like this, step in, bend, etc. He adapted the technique to her physical limitations. That, IMO, is a good tacher. ------------------ Schmit GySgt, USMC(Ret) NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS "Si vis Pacem Para Bellum"

February 7, 2000, 10:19 AM	#12
Skorzeny Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 1999 Posts: 1,938	Schmit: IMHO, the practicality of Kuk Sul Won is limited. Another good system for both fitness and self-defense is Shooto (also called Shootfighting or Shootwrestling), which incorporates both standup striking and grappling techniques and makes use of static drills and dynamic, full-force sparring/grappling for training. Shooto is becoming more popular as Shooto practitioners are becoming more dominant in no-holds barred events. Skorzeny ------------------ For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the supreme excellence. Sun Tzu [This message has been edited by Skorzeny (edited February 07, 2000).] [This message has been edited by Skorzeny (edited February 07, 2000).]

February 8, 2000, 04:45 PM	#13
scyman Member Join Date: February 8, 2000 Posts: 27	i would also recommend brazilian jiu jitsu (if you can find a qualified teacher in your area) as well as muay thai. i primarily train bjj, and started out training muay thai. i've dabbled in jeet kune do, but found the trapping rather unrealistic (i don't posess the same talents as bruce himself) and feel only few people can really pull it off in a real fight situation against someone who knows what they're doing. i wouldn't really include the trapping distance as a fighting distance, since you rarely find youself in that position for much longer than a split second. if a guy is that close to you, it most likely means he trying for a clinch, which he'll most likely get if you're trying to trap. i'm very biased towards brazilian jiu jitsu since it's such a unique art, as it allows people of ALL body types to easily learn it and use it effectively. it's a proven system in the streets, as it was primarily designed for the real street fight situation, but you have to remember it's probably not as practical when fighting several other people at the same time, or fighting against an opponent who has a weapon. it's also one of the best workouts you can get since you must use every muscle in your body, EVERY muscle! plus, you'll just fall in love with it once you start training, it eventually becomes an integral part of your life. what i do like about jkd is the eye gouges, which could save you from a dangerous situation if you pull it off. good luck, by starting any martial art, when you find a good school, your quality of life will improve regardless of the style!

February 8, 2000, 07:30 PM	#14
Schmit Staff Alumnus Join Date: March 11, 1999 Location: Masquito infested flatlands of Mid-FL Posts: 1,857	Thanks for the advice. What I'm going to do is start with Kuk Sool Won and "get back into shape" then after about a year... with "some" experience under my belt look to expand into another Art. Again... Thanks. ------------------ Schmit GySgt, USMC(Ret) NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS "Si vis Pacem Para Bellum"

February 9, 2000, 07:03 AM	#15
Caeca Invidia Es Staff Alumnus Join Date: November 18, 1999 Location: Earth Posts: 834	Thanks for all the advice everyone. ------------------ "Freedom has always existed in a very percurious balance. And when buildings stop blowing up, people’s priorities tend to change..." Enemy of the State

February 9, 2000, 05:18 PM	#16
Devin Junior Member Join Date: February 6, 2000 Posts: 13	<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KaliSIG: Visit a few martial arts schools of varrying styles to get a feel for them. DON'T buy into their hype. A lot of them will try to tell you that their style is THE BEST AND MOST EFFECTIVE. In reality, it's the fighter that actually makes the style. Hope that makes sense to you. Keep in mind that there are three distances in any given fight. First distance is long distance or kicking distance. Second is medium distance or punching distance. And third is short/close distance, which is grappling/wrestling distance. Make sure that whichever style or school you decide to go to trains it's students in all distances. Although your main purpose to train is to get in shape, you should consider keeping your training as realistic as possible. Often times, people will take an aerobic kickboxing class and think they're fighters. They're given a false sense of security. The way you train in a dojo or gym will be the way you react in a real situation. So learn it right the first time, or all you'll be doing is perfecting the wrong technique. Hope that helps. Adrian [/quote] I disagree on one thing. You have forgotten one range. That is trapping range. This range if practiced along with the other three you mentioned can be the most effective. Trapping range allows you to use other weapons that kicking range, and punching range is stuck with. JKD emphasized this alot. It is very useful and I reccomend everyone see it it applies to them.