Underwater guns?

[mango]

Hi,

Does anyone have any information about guns designed to fire underwater (I kid ye not)?

Particularly US Military (SEALS/UDT) 1960s-1980s?

But any conversation on the wider topic would be great.

[mete]

H&K had one .See www.hkpro.com. But it had to be sent back to HK for reloading !!! It was in a movie also !

[wogpotter]

There was a Soviet specialty one also but I don't remember much about is other than it was designed for Spetsnaz operations.

[Vt.birdhunter]

Thought the Navy had/has an integrally suppressed Ruger Mark 2 that could be fired underwater. They could add a couple of tablespoons of water into the dry suppressor as well for further suppression.

[JD0x0]

Some cool underwater fire arms...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APS_underwater_rifle

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AAI_underwater_revolver

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mk_1_Un...er_Defense_Gun

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPP-1_underwater_pistol

[skizzums]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASM-DT_amphibious_rifle

I wish they had data on energy of the rounds or knots or however it would be measured

I also wonder with all the money and time spent on R&D, how many soldiers actually found a use for underwater combat. maybe I am just naïve, but I would think it would be a rare occurrence

[mango]

I also wonder with all the money and time spent on R&D, how many soldiers actually found a use for underwater combat. maybe I am just naïve, but I would think it would be a rare occurrence

sounds about right

[Water-Man]

SEAL underwater combat is done with knives, not guns.

Shooting a gun underwater is not practical because of how sound carries much more under water. It could be detrimental to hearing.

Back in the 70's, I believe, a type of 'revolver' was used that fired darts. That didn't last long.

[wogpotter]

Firing cartridges under water is not a new thing. Its not suggested that it be done extensively for the reasons discussed, but "power heads" have been around for ever being capable of firing.357, .44 mag & even 12 & 10-gauge magnums They are essentially short barreled single shot firearms.

Yes they are very loud underwater but when "Mr Clark" wants to nibble on a diver's toes the whistling in the ears is a small price to pay.

[JD0x0]

One thing I noticed is none of these designs seem to use a projectile that self propels (kind of like what a torpedo does)

Firing a projectile under water is just not efficient due to the resistance of water. On the other hand, of you had projectiles that could jettison themselves to the proper velocity and maintain their thrust for a decent amount of distance, range and lethality could potentially be greatly increased.

[wogpotter]

Underwater is a whole new ball game. Because of that you can't directly translate the two. Frequently visibility underwater is 5~10 yards if not less. ("Braille divers" are happy when it is enough to see the inside of your mask) so long range is pretty much a pipe dream.
A Practical water~water or water~air scenario would probably be in the order of inches or feet!

[SDC]

The current-issue Russian underwater stuff uses "strelovidny"/"nail" cartridges, which self-stabilize underwater, because the "tail" of the dart follows the "bubble" formed by the point. There's a video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-P578pnctU , showing TsNIITochMash's APS ("Avtomat Podvodny Spetsialny"/Automatic, Underwater, Special) rifle, their SPP ("Spetsialny Podvodny Pistolet"/"Special Underwater Pistol") and the ammunition for each, along with them being loaded and fired.

[skizzums]

cool youtube find

just seeing it being loaded and shot explains it better than the wiki pages do. they look more powerful than I would have thought