Thinking About Trap & Skeet

NavArch · May 1, 2010, 06:45 PM

I just joined a shooting club for its pistol/rifle range, but would also like to consider trying the trap and skeet ranges as well. The question is which type of shotgun should a newbie get? I grew up with a 20ga single shot Winchester and dropped a fair number of quail with it when hunting with my dad. Doubles using that gun, either in trap or skeet, could get a bit more "sporting" than intended if I tried to re-load between birds in a double throw. It worked quite nicely for single trap about 45 years ago.

In "trying it out" mode, a zillion dollar shotgun just won't fit in today's budget. Suggestions?

zippy13 · May 1, 2010, 07:09 PM

Greetings NavArch, and welcome aboard

I, like many, shot my first rounds of targets with a borrowed gun. I hate to see someone shell out the money for something he may not stick with. Is there a local trap and skeet club that has loaners or rental guns? Although not advertised, my club has several loaners that are available for free. In another thread, I recommended the OP, "Try as many guns as possible: rent, beg or borrow as many guns, for fit and firing as possible. Only with shooting experience will you learn what stock dimensions work for you." Then you can start to develop a short list. For now, you can strart to think about a realistic budget.

oneounceload · May 1, 2010, 07:13 PM

If all you do is trap singles, a single shot will suffice. However, for trap doubles, skeet, 5-stand and sporting, a gun capable of two shots is needed.

Gun fit is paramount for success. While at the club ask folks about their guns, explain your newness - most will offer to let you try their guns out shooting them. Shouldering a gun in the store once or twice is NOT a good indicator whether the gun fits or not - shooting them at targets and being successful (or not) is. While a pump can be used, you will rarely see them on a skeet field - that extra necessary step of shucking the empty and chambering a new round tends to have most folks pulling the gun off the flight line and their cheek off the gun - resulting in misses.

A decent used semi from the likes of Beretta can be had for most folks' budgets and as it holds its value, will be easy to sell if you decide these games aren't for you.

I, personally, prefer O/U (though I do have an 1100 in 28 gauge that works well for me). I reload, and I'm tired of bending over to retrieve my hulls. I also am LH and I prefer not having empties fly across my face and field of view.

Used Beretta semis can be found in the 7-800 range around here, while a good TARGET O/U can be found for about 50-100% more. I emphasized target because many companies make similar models for field and target use, with the target versions generally being more robust and therefore heavier. In target shooting, weight is your friend. In field use weight is not.

Whatever gun you get, shoot light target loads - your shoulder will thank you. A 12 shooting 7/8oz or a 20 shooting 3/4 oz will break every skeet target and every 16 yard trap target there is. Those loads are easily realized through reloading.

Good luck!

BigJimP · May 2, 2010, 01:30 PM

Another vote for taking it slow / maybe renting or at least trying a few different guns before you make a decision.

The first shotgun I bought myself was a Browning BPS pump gun, 12ga, 28" barrel ...in the 70's ...and I still have it even though I've moved on to Browning O/U's for all my target shooting ... you don't need to spend $3,000 to get started in these games.

A good pump gun / a good used semi-auto / or even a new semi-auto ( if they Fit ) are good solid, long term choices. In fact at one of the big box stores last weekend, I saw a Brownng silver series, semi-auto for around $ 850 new / that looks to me like a very good gun for the money.

swmp9jrm · May 2, 2010, 01:50 PM

I've also started out with a Browning BPS Trap. Trust me - you can dust just as many birds with a $600 gun as you can with a $3000 gun.

That said, I will someday have a Cynergy Classic Trap Unsingle Combo with Adjustable Comb!!

BigJimP · May 3, 2010, 10:57 AM

The cost of the gun has nothing to do with it ...." It is All About Fit" ...
...and if a $ 600 gun or a $3,000 gun doesn't Fit you ....your shooting will suffer ....

loverme85 · May 19, 2010, 08:14 PM

The fit is the most important aspect as these guys stressed. If your gun fits you right the birds wont care how much your gun costs. I've only shot trap in my life, skeet has just never appealed to me. I can blame that on my father because he started me shooting trap at a very young age, and its all the competitive shooting I've ever done, and he's ever done. Trap or skeet I wouldn't shoot doubles for at least a year (this is just my own opinion others may disagree). You may get discouraged easier and end up quitting just because your not an instant success. I would get the singles down first then get into doubles. That being said a good gun to start with would probably be Beretta 391, or Remington 1100.

zippy13 · May 20, 2010, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loverme85

Trap or skeet I wouldn't shoot doubles for at least a year (this is just my own opinion others may disagree).

I couldn't disagree more; but, it's nice to have a fresh opinion expressed. I've introduced quite a few new shooters to Skeet. They may skip doubles for the first round or two; but, they're trying doubles by the end of the day.
I have a rainy day/loaner gun set that's an R-1100 Trap model with an extra shortened barrel for Skeet. A similar rig could work for a new trap and Skeet shooter.

loverme85 · May 20, 2010, 01:30 AM

It definitely depends on the person, but some people can get discouraged when everyone else is shooting 50's and they're not. Kind of through some personal experience. I took a friend that was not new to shooting, but new to trap, up to the field one VERY windy day. He shot very poorly no matter how much I tried to help him, and I shot extremely well. I was very supportive, and I was constantly reassuring him that its difficult to shoot when its that windy, and I know he'd do better next time. He's yet to join me again.

zippy13 · May 20, 2010, 03:49 AM

Different people have different natural abilities and different likes and dislikes. I know some folks who love to shoot clay targets despite their clumsiness and others who are naturals with a shotgun, but aren't interested in shooting. From my club, there's a few members who were AAA Skeet shooters or AA/27-Yard trap shooters 10 or 15 years ago but are now avid golfers and seldom shoot anymore.

Let's hope NavArch, the OP, will enjoy tarp and Skeet. The clay sports can provide a lifetime of enjoyment. Perhaps in a few years he'll be seeking advice on upgrading to a custom comp trap or Skeet gun.

2500ak · May 20, 2010, 05:07 AM

Any Winchester with Speedpump rotary-bolt action pump gets my vote. They were well built guns whose actions work many times smoother and faster than the Remingtons and Mosbergs, and can be had cheaply in good condition. I got my Ranger 120 for around 120$ and its almost flawless.

They're also a lot lighter due to the aluminum receivers. My wood stocked 120 with 28in barrel is lighter than my 18in barrel 870 with pistol grip. They don't make them anymore sadly.

oneounceload · May 20, 2010, 07:18 AM

Quote:

I know some folks who love to shoot clay targets despite their clumsiness

Now, Zippy - you didn't have to go and tell on me!.....

I'm trying to shoot some sporting tomorrow - going to do the harder course, because IMO if they're too easy to hit, they get boring real fast. I'll take a lower score from challenging targets over a high score from easy ones any day of the week.

Glock_19 · May 20, 2010, 08:37 AM

I'm pretty new to skeet as well but my personal choice was based soley on what fit me well. The 870's don't quite sit right in my shoulder and consequently I just bought a Benelli Supernova because it feels completely natural to me, even though most people think a Benelli feels awful and unwieldy. Just goes to show what fits someone else isn't what is right for you. That being said the Supernova is a great gun but a little pricey for a pump. In the future I'm hoping to get a Benelli Supersport. Don't rule out Benelli!

BigJimP · May 21, 2010, 04:05 PM

A couple of thoughts ...

new Skeet shooters ....
Getting good instruction is important. On new shooters - when we can get a field to ourselves - we start them on singles at station 7 - first the high house / then the low house ---then we move them into pairs on station 7. If they can repeatedly hit the pair on 7 /then we go to station 6 / double whatever lead you saw on station 7 singles and work on singles / then pairs. If they have issues - we go back to station 7 / then to 6 again and on to 5, 4 and 3 ( treat 2 and 1 the same as 6 and 7 ) ...with some talk on hold points, followthru, etc ....most shooters pick it up really quickly. We save stat 8 for last.....

But, like Zippy said, they are usually shooting a standard round of Skeet by the end of the day ...and having a good time. No they aren't proficient yet / but having a good time is important. If they aren't having fun /do something different.
------------------------------
Benelli Super Sport is a solid gun - in my opinion / suitable as a competition level gun if you want to shoot a semi-auto. New they are around $ 1875 but I'm starting to see a few used ones around for about $ 1,000 - $1,200.

The key to any long term competition level gun is adjustability / so you can really adjust it for your eye / mount, etc -- so it really hits where you look / with the right weight, feel, etc ......and durability for 50,000 - 100,000 shells minimum. I think the Benelli Super Sport will fit that criteria ( I have them in 12 and 20ga ). But I think a lot of the better semi-autos will probably meet that criteria as well - Beretta 391's, etc ....

LSnSC · May 22, 2010, 07:07 PM

The Beretta 391 is the best semiauto on the market and is adjustable enough to get a good basic gun fit. Unless youre very tall or very short, a 391 will fit you more than well enough to start breaking targets. You can get into one for half of what a good O/U will cost and its easier on your wallet and shoulder.

zippy13 · May 23, 2010, 01:37 AM

I have to agree with LSnSC, although BigJimP's Benelli is a very nice gun (I've only seen one of them), the Beretta dethroned the R-1100 some years ago. Beretta autos are quite popular at the target ranges. Also, you can take advantage of the added exercise from picking up those grounded hulls (if allowed), or remembering to use with a shell catcher when appropriate.

BigJimP · May 23, 2010, 12:15 PM

At the last sporting clays weekend shoot - there were about 70 shooters --and there were 3 Benelli Super Sports that I saw on the course (and I didn't take mine)...

At my local club - I only see one occasionally ...

so Zippy is right ....it isn't a gun that has really caught on ...( I think the price is hurting it at $ 1,875 )...vs the options of adjustability, durability, etc that this model has... I still think its an awful good gun for the money.

zippy13 · May 23, 2010, 01:41 PM

Back in the day, it was the new Remington Wingmaster 870's low cost that dethroned the venerable Winchester Model 12. The 870 wasn't a better gun, new shooters were shopping price. Remington and Winchester have been corporate rivals for decades, and Remington used cost saving manufacturing techniques that undercut traditional Winchester quality. About the time Remington introduced their "cost effective" 1100 auto loader, Winchester had their Super-X auto built to old Model 12 standards. Again, the Remington's lower cost prevailed.

With the Beretta it was a totally different story, their auto cost more than an R1100 or R11-87, experienced shooters were shopping performance over price. When comparing the Benelli and the Beretta, it's really a moot point because Benelli is part of Beretta -- they'll get your money one way or another. We may think of Winchester and Remington as being old names in firearms, but Beretta is about to celebrate their 500th anniversary! Ya think they learned a trick or two along the way?

darkgael · May 23, 2010, 03:04 PM

I'm new enough at the Trap game that I can tell you how many rounds I've shot.

Quote:

/ but having a good time is important.

That is the truth. I'm using two of my field guns (a 12 ga. SXS and a 20 ga. O/U - I shoot the 20 slightly better). As long as the guns go bang, I'm having a good time.
Pete

oneounceload · May 23, 2010, 04:06 PM

Quote:

That is the truth. I'm using two of my field guns (a 12 ga. SXS and a 20 ga. O/U - I shoot the 20 slightly better). As long as the guns go bang, I'm having a good time.

And having fun is the best part!

zippy13 · May 23, 2010, 04:39 PM

darkgael
Pete, my friend, glad to hear your guns are going bang and you're having a good time on the trap field. With all of your other shooting activities (as your diverse postings in the other fora attest), I'm surprised you can find the time.

darkgael · May 23, 2010, 05:29 PM

Quote:

the time.

Find the time? Yeah, me too. The indoor gallery season which started in Sept. on Wednesday evenings just ended. The Trap Club is open on Wednesday afternoon and evening. No matches at the present, though Summer brings a lot of "stuff". Days should be longer - they were long enough when I was working.
Pete

May 1, 2010, 06:45 PM	#1
NavArch Junior Member Join Date: May 1, 2010 Posts: 2	Thinking About Trap & Skeet I just joined a shooting club for its pistol/rifle range, but would also like to consider trying the trap and skeet ranges as well. The question is which type of shotgun should a newbie get? I grew up with a 20ga single shot Winchester and dropped a fair number of quail with it when hunting with my dad. Doubles using that gun, either in trap or skeet, could get a bit more "sporting" than intended if I tried to re-load between birds in a double throw. It worked quite nicely for single trap about 45 years ago. In "trying it out" mode, a zillion dollar shotgun just won't fit in today's budget. Suggestions?

May 1, 2010, 07:09 PM	#2
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	Greetings NavArch, and welcome aboard I, like many, shot my first rounds of targets with a borrowed gun. I hate to see someone shell out the money for something he may not stick with. Is there a local trap and skeet club that has loaners or rental guns? Although not advertised, my club has several loaners that are available for free. In another thread, I recommended the OP, "Try as many guns as possible: rent, beg or borrow as many guns, for fit and firing as possible. Only with shooting experience will you learn what stock dimensions work for you." Then you can start to develop a short list. For now, you can strart to think about a realistic budget.

May 1, 2010, 07:13 PM	#3
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	If all you do is trap singles, a single shot will suffice. However, for trap doubles, skeet, 5-stand and sporting, a gun capable of two shots is needed. Gun fit is paramount for success. While at the club ask folks about their guns, explain your newness - most will offer to let you try their guns out shooting them. Shouldering a gun in the store once or twice is NOT a good indicator whether the gun fits or not - shooting them at targets and being successful (or not) is. While a pump can be used, you will rarely see them on a skeet field - that extra necessary step of shucking the empty and chambering a new round tends to have most folks pulling the gun off the flight line and their cheek off the gun - resulting in misses. A decent used semi from the likes of Beretta can be had for most folks' budgets and as it holds its value, will be easy to sell if you decide these games aren't for you. I, personally, prefer O/U (though I do have an 1100 in 28 gauge that works well for me). I reload, and I'm tired of bending over to retrieve my hulls. I also am LH and I prefer not having empties fly across my face and field of view. Used Beretta semis can be found in the 7-800 range around here, while a good TARGET O/U can be found for about 50-100% more. I emphasized target because many companies make similar models for field and target use, with the target versions generally being more robust and therefore heavier. In target shooting, weight is your friend. In field use weight is not. Whatever gun you get, shoot light target loads - your shoulder will thank you. A 12 shooting 7/8oz or a 20 shooting 3/4 oz will break every skeet target and every 16 yard trap target there is. Those loads are easily realized through reloading. Good luck!

May 2, 2010, 01:30 PM	#4
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	Another vote for taking it slow / maybe renting or at least trying a few different guns before you make a decision. The first shotgun I bought myself was a Browning BPS pump gun, 12ga, 28" barrel ...in the 70's ...and I still have it even though I've moved on to Browning O/U's for all my target shooting ... you don't need to spend $3,000 to get started in these games. A good pump gun / a good used semi-auto / or even a new semi-auto ( if they Fit ) are good solid, long term choices. In fact at one of the big box stores last weekend, I saw a Brownng silver series, semi-auto for around $ 850 new / that looks to me like a very good gun for the money.

May 2, 2010, 01:50 PM	#5
swmp9jrm Member Join Date: September 1, 2008 Posts: 95	I've also started out with a Browning BPS Trap. Trust me - you can dust just as many birds with a $600 gun as you can with a $3000 gun. That said, I will someday have a Cynergy Classic Trap Unsingle Combo with Adjustable Comb!!

May 3, 2010, 10:57 AM	#6
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	The cost of the gun has nothing to do with it ...." It is All About Fit" ... ...and if a $ 600 gun or a $3,000 gun doesn't Fit you ....your shooting will suffer ....

May 19, 2010, 08:14 PM	#7
loverme85 Senior Member Join Date: March 26, 2010 Location: Jamestown NY Posts: 117	The fit is the most important aspect as these guys stressed. If your gun fits you right the birds wont care how much your gun costs. I've only shot trap in my life, skeet has just never appealed to me. I can blame that on my father because he started me shooting trap at a very young age, and its all the competitive shooting I've ever done, and he's ever done. Trap or skeet I wouldn't shoot doubles for at least a year (this is just my own opinion others may disagree). You may get discouraged easier and end up quitting just because your not an instant success. I would get the singles down first then get into doubles. That being said a good gun to start with would probably be Beretta 391, or Remington 1100.

May 20, 2010, 01:30 AM	#9
loverme85 Senior Member Join Date: March 26, 2010 Location: Jamestown NY Posts: 117	It definitely depends on the person, but some people can get discouraged when everyone else is shooting 50's and they're not. Kind of through some personal experience. I took a friend that was not new to shooting, but new to trap, up to the field one VERY windy day. He shot very poorly no matter how much I tried to help him, and I shot extremely well. I was very supportive, and I was constantly reassuring him that its difficult to shoot when its that windy, and I know he'd do better next time. He's yet to join me again.

May 20, 2010, 03:49 AM	#10
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	Different people have different natural abilities and different likes and dislikes. I know some folks who love to shoot clay targets despite their clumsiness and others who are naturals with a shotgun, but aren't interested in shooting. From my club, there's a few members who were AAA Skeet shooters or AA/27-Yard trap shooters 10 or 15 years ago but are now avid golfers and seldom shoot anymore. Let's hope NavArch, the OP, will enjoy tarp and Skeet. The clay sports can provide a lifetime of enjoyment. Perhaps in a few years he'll be seeking advice on upgrading to a custom comp trap or Skeet gun.

May 20, 2010, 05:07 AM	#11
2500ak Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2010 Posts: 132	Any Winchester with Speedpump rotary-bolt action pump gets my vote. They were well built guns whose actions work many times smoother and faster than the Remingtons and Mosbergs, and can be had cheaply in good condition. I got my Ranger 120 for around 120$ and its almost flawless. They're also a lot lighter due to the aluminum receivers. My wood stocked 120 with 28in barrel is lighter than my 18in barrel 870 with pistol grip. They don't make them anymore sadly.

May 20, 2010, 08:37 AM	#13
Glock_19 Senior Member Join Date: April 19, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 123	I'm pretty new to skeet as well but my personal choice was based soley on what fit me well. The 870's don't quite sit right in my shoulder and consequently I just bought a Benelli Supernova because it feels completely natural to me, even though most people think a Benelli feels awful and unwieldy. Just goes to show what fits someone else isn't what is right for you. That being said the Supernova is a great gun but a little pricey for a pump. In the future I'm hoping to get a Benelli Supersport. Don't rule out Benelli!

May 21, 2010, 04:05 PM	#14
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	A couple of thoughts ... new Skeet shooters .... Getting good instruction is important. On new shooters - when we can get a field to ourselves - we start them on singles at station 7 - first the high house / then the low house ---then we move them into pairs on station 7. If they can repeatedly hit the pair on 7 /then we go to station 6 / double whatever lead you saw on station 7 singles and work on singles / then pairs. If they have issues - we go back to station 7 / then to 6 again and on to 5, 4 and 3 ( treat 2 and 1 the same as 6 and 7 ) ...with some talk on hold points, followthru, etc ....most shooters pick it up really quickly. We save stat 8 for last..... But, like Zippy said, they are usually shooting a standard round of Skeet by the end of the day ...and having a good time. No they aren't proficient yet / but having a good time is important. If they aren't having fun /do something different. ------------------------------ Benelli Super Sport is a solid gun - in my opinion / suitable as a competition level gun if you want to shoot a semi-auto. New they are around $ 1875 but I'm starting to see a few used ones around for about $ 1,000 - $1,200. The key to any long term competition level gun is adjustability / so you can really adjust it for your eye / mount, etc -- so it really hits where you look / with the right weight, feel, etc ......and durability for 50,000 - 100,000 shells minimum. I think the Benelli Super Sport will fit that criteria ( I have them in 12 and 20ga ). But I think a lot of the better semi-autos will probably meet that criteria as well - Beretta 391's, etc ....

May 22, 2010, 07:07 PM	#15
LSnSC Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2010 Posts: 514	The Beretta 391 is the best semiauto on the market and is adjustable enough to get a good basic gun fit. Unless youre very tall or very short, a 391 will fit you more than well enough to start breaking targets. You can get into one for half of what a good O/U will cost and its easier on your wallet and shoulder.

May 23, 2010, 01:37 AM	#16
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	I have to agree with LSnSC, although BigJimP's Benelli is a very nice gun (I've only seen one of them), the Beretta dethroned the R-1100 some years ago. Beretta autos are quite popular at the target ranges. Also, you can take advantage of the added exercise from picking up those grounded hulls (if allowed), or remembering to use with a shell catcher when appropriate.

May 23, 2010, 12:15 PM	#17
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	At the last sporting clays weekend shoot - there were about 70 shooters --and there were 3 Benelli Super Sports that I saw on the course (and I didn't take mine)... At my local club - I only see one occasionally ... so Zippy is right ....it isn't a gun that has really caught on ...( I think the price is hurting it at $ 1,875 )...vs the options of adjustability, durability, etc that this model has... I still think its an awful good gun for the money.

May 23, 2010, 01:41 PM	#18
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	Back in the day, it was the new Remington Wingmaster 870's low cost that dethroned the venerable Winchester Model 12. The 870 wasn't a better gun, new shooters were shopping price. Remington and Winchester have been corporate rivals for decades, and Remington used cost saving manufacturing techniques that undercut traditional Winchester quality. About the time Remington introduced their "cost effective" 1100 auto loader, Winchester had their Super-X auto built to old Model 12 standards. Again, the Remington's lower cost prevailed. With the Beretta it was a totally different story, their auto cost more than an R1100 or R11-87, experienced shooters were shopping performance over price. When comparing the Benelli and the Beretta, it's really a moot point because Benelli is part of Beretta -- they'll get your money one way or another. We may think of Winchester and Remington as being old names in firearms, but Beretta is about to celebrate their 500th anniversary! Ya think they learned a trick or two along the way?

May 23, 2010, 04:39 PM	#21
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	darkgael Pete, my friend, glad to hear your guns are going bang and you're having a good time on the trap field. With all of your other shooting activities (as your diverse postings in the other fora attest), I'm surprised you can find the time.