Lee sizing die leaves scratches on 9 mm brass, how safe ?

ViktorC · March 12, 2013, 09:13 PM

Hi everyone,
I could use some help, being not totally new to reloading I'm still new to reloading handgun ammunition. I got myself new Beretta in 9 mm Luger and successfully loaded few dozen rounds.
4.2 grain of Bullseye behind 115 grain berry's plated bullet with OAL 1.142 inch (2.900 mm) They cycle the action just fine and no signs of over pressure. However my sizing die leaves horizontal scratches just like loaded round isn't coming straight into the die. Looking inside the die up side down I can't see any sharp edges...plus, it's not doing this with every case...
aesthetically, I couldn't case less but would like to know if these are safe to shoot (cases are not scratched bad, and by no means dented, looks like surface marks)...I'm aware it might be hard to tell without the photos which I don't have at this point...but, maybe some of you had similar experience...
Thank you all...

Brian Pfleuger · March 12, 2013, 09:50 PM

It's not going to hurt anything.

You can try cleaning it with regular gun cleaning supplies and if you really want to go crazy, get yourself some Flitz polish at an auto parts store, put some on a bore mop that fits snugly in the die and run it in a cordless drill for a few seconds. It'll smooth as a babies...

In any case, it won't hurt anything the way it is.

Mike / Tx · March 13, 2013, 04:39 AM

Similar to what Brian mentions, on occasion I take an older bronze bore brush and wrap a patch around it then run it through my sizers with a touch of Hoppe's on it to clean out the residual brass. I just chuck them up in my cordless screwdriver and give it a few spins then swap out the wet patch for a dry one.

After I'm done I swab them down with a q-tip and some Imperial sizing wax and they are ready for the next time I need them.

Just be sure when you clean it out really good to use some case lube and slather the insides down again. If not the first case you run in there might stick. Not sayin it is a guaranteed, but I have had it happen even with a well lubed case.

Magnum Wheel Man · March 13, 2013, 06:44 AM

I have had some scratched dies ( I now use a universal decapper & clean my cases, before I resize ) ( some die makers blame nickel cases for the scratched die surfaces, so I'm curious if you have been loading nickel cases )... most times, the scratches, if not too deep will fire form out of your brass, however if kinda deep, it can cause the cases to split upon firing...

also a word of caution about polishing out your sizer die... if the die is dirty, you won't do any harm cleaning it, but if you have some actual "scratches" in your die, you need to be carefull not to polish out the diameter of your die too much, in the case of something like 9mm, it could cause .001 - .002" bigger diameter cases, & a failure to feed if you have a tight chamber...

I generally will try cleaning the die, but if I have something with deep enough scratches, I toss it...

Brian Pfleuger · March 13, 2013, 07:46 AM

Theoretically true, but you'd have to run Flitz on a cordless drill for a loooong time to change the dies dimensions.

Varmint Al says he does it for 30 seconds and a test on a mild steel rod showed no measurable change after 2 minutes at 500 rpm...

http://www.varmintal.com/arelo.htm

Magnum Wheel Man · March 13, 2013, 07:59 AM

I think the key here, is... "how deep are the scratches"... I'm not afraid to polish a "little" but only if they are cosmetic... any deeper & I don't want to fish belly or open up the die diameter...

ViktorC · March 13, 2013, 02:14 PM

Uuuugh, I had a feeling I was way too tired to make sense of anything last night so I owe you an apology ... what I meant was SEATING die, and not sizing die.
And yes, I understand that without photos it's kinda hard to tell what's the level of damage on the case...so, I'll try to take some close up pics and post them...
Thanks people, and once again I'm sorry for confusion...

Brian Pfleuger · March 13, 2013, 02:24 PM

The seating die?!

The seating die shouldn't be touching the case except for the mouth, and then only if you're crimping.

Magnum Wheel Man · March 13, 2013, 02:26 PM

scratching the bullet ???

ViktorC · March 13, 2013, 02:54 PM

Nope, scratching the case, right in the middle...

ViktorC · March 13, 2013, 03:01 PM

http://s1301.beta.photobucket.com/us...tml?sort=3&o=0

ViktorC · March 13, 2013, 03:03 PM

Same round, different view

http://s1301.beta.photobucket.com/us...a2d86.jpg.html

Fire_Moose · March 13, 2013, 03:21 PM

That first one looks like a scrape...maybe clean the shell holder. Might be holding the casing cockeyed

Brian Pfleuger · March 13, 2013, 03:21 PM

Is this a Lee Factory Crimp Die?

ViktorC · March 13, 2013, 03:30 PM

Yes Fire Moose, it is scrape...more than a scratch...line is where that scrape ends leaving bad looking edge...
Brian, I do use Lee FCD as a last stage...I don't crimp with bullet seater, but I'm pretty sure that scrape came out of lee bullet seating die...Just to mention I load VERY slow and careful, one-by-one round...looking close at every round after every step, no day dreaming etc...

Brian Pfleuger · March 13, 2013, 03:32 PM

The seating die should not be touching the case in that location. I can't even imagine how you could MAKE it touch the case in that spot. That looks like a fairly significant gouge.

Magnum Wheel Man · March 13, 2013, 03:35 PM

almost looks like somethings binding... the New Diminsion Hornady dies ( I like them ) could possibly bind & cause a scrape like that... does the Redding Die have a floating seater ???

ViktorC · March 13, 2013, 03:54 PM

I agree, that gouge looks pretty bad, to the point I will discard the round and say safe...
Other examples are nearly as bad and I feel they can be discharged safely. it doesn't give me too much headache as I had this happened roughly 5 out of 50 rounds but still would like to find out what causes it

"Floating seater", don't know if question was for me, but just to repeat I use LEE 4 set dies and not sure what "floating seater" exactly is but tip inside of the die that pushes the bullet does move freely ...

Magnum Wheel Man · March 13, 2013, 03:56 PM

ooops... sorry... Redding dies were another thread

dacaur · March 14, 2013, 12:26 AM

I get marks EXACTLY like that from my FCD on the rare occasion it post sizes a case, how sure are you its from the seater? If you are anything less than 100.00% sure, I would bet its from the FCD....

If that's not it, you definitely have a problem.... There is plenty of clearance inside my 9mm seating die.... If you take an unsized case , can you drop it into the die and have it drop out easily? If not, that's an issue. If you can, then the plot thickens....

Ted D · March 14, 2013, 04:20 AM

Mine does the same thing its not from the FCD its some where in the bullet seat die.I ran over 2000 rds through my M&P9Sheild with no problems.As of right now I'm checking my fired cases and I see no sratches after I tumbeled them Still a have about 1200 more cases to check.

TimSr · March 14, 2013, 06:23 AM

I had one like that. Had a tiny burr in it from the factory. About 4 seconds from a small stone on the dremel and its been perfect for years.

William T. Watts · March 14, 2013, 04:45 PM

Flitz or JB bore cleaner will not remove metal in any measurable amount, if there is any removal it's in MICRONS, they will both polish metal and remove carbon which is desirable.. William

PA-Joe · March 14, 2013, 05:27 PM

Are you belling the case after resizing. It looks like the bullet is going in crocked (leaning to one side).

dacaur · March 14, 2013, 06:00 PM

since its the seating die not the sizing die, you don't have to worry about taking off too much material... I would think... if I am wrong, someone please let me know....

March 12, 2013, 09:13 PM	#1
ViktorC Member Join Date: August 3, 2011 Posts: 15	Lee sizing die leaves scratches on 9 mm brass, how safe ? Hi everyone, I could use some help, being not totally new to reloading I'm still new to reloading handgun ammunition. I got myself new Beretta in 9 mm Luger and successfully loaded few dozen rounds. 4.2 grain of Bullseye behind 115 grain berry's plated bullet with OAL 1.142 inch (2.900 mm) They cycle the action just fine and no signs of over pressure. However my sizing die leaves horizontal scratches just like loaded round isn't coming straight into the die. Looking inside the die up side down I can't see any sharp edges...plus, it's not doing this with every case... aesthetically, I couldn't case less but would like to know if these are safe to shoot (cases are not scratched bad, and by no means dented, looks like surface marks)...I'm aware it might be hard to tell without the photos which I don't have at this point...but, maybe some of you had similar experience... Thank you all...

March 12, 2013, 09:50 PM	#2
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	It's not going to hurt anything. You can try cleaning it with regular gun cleaning supplies and if you really want to go crazy, get yourself some Flitz polish at an auto parts store, put some on a bore mop that fits snugly in the die and run it in a cordless drill for a few seconds. It'll smooth as a babies... In any case, it won't hurt anything the way it is. __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

March 13, 2013, 04:39 AM	#3
Mike / Tx Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2000 Posts: 2,101	Similar to what Brian mentions, on occasion I take an older bronze bore brush and wrap a patch around it then run it through my sizers with a touch of Hoppe's on it to clean out the residual brass. I just chuck them up in my cordless screwdriver and give it a few spins then swap out the wet patch for a dry one. After I'm done I swab them down with a q-tip and some Imperial sizing wax and they are ready for the next time I need them. Just be sure when you clean it out really good to use some case lube and slather the insides down again. If not the first case you run in there might stick. Not sayin it is a guaranteed, but I have had it happen even with a well lubed case. __________________ LAter, Mike / TX

March 13, 2013, 06:44 AM	#4
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	I have had some scratched dies ( I now use a universal decapper & clean my cases, before I resize ) ( some die makers blame nickel cases for the scratched die surfaces, so I'm curious if you have been loading nickel cases )... most times, the scratches, if not too deep will fire form out of your brass, however if kinda deep, it can cause the cases to split upon firing... also a word of caution about polishing out your sizer die... if the die is dirty, you won't do any harm cleaning it, but if you have some actual "scratches" in your die, you need to be carefull not to polish out the diameter of your die too much, in the case of something like 9mm, it could cause .001 - .002" bigger diameter cases, & a failure to feed if you have a tight chamber... I generally will try cleaning the die, but if I have something with deep enough scratches, I toss it... __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

March 13, 2013, 07:46 AM	#5
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	Lee sizing die leaves scratches on 9 mm brass, how safe ? Theoretically true, but you'd have to run Flitz on a cordless drill for a loooong time to change the dies dimensions. Varmint Al says he does it for 30 seconds and a test on a mild steel rod showed no measurable change after 2 minutes at 500 rpm... http://www.varmintal.com/arelo.htm

March 13, 2013, 07:59 AM	#6
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	I think the key here, is... "how deep are the scratches"... I'm not afraid to polish a "little" but only if they are cosmetic... any deeper & I don't want to fish belly or open up the die diameter... __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

March 13, 2013, 02:14 PM	#7
ViktorC Member Join Date: August 3, 2011 Posts: 15	Uuuugh, I had a feeling I was way too tired to make sense of anything last night so I owe you an apology ... what I meant was SEATING die, and not sizing die. And yes, I understand that without photos it's kinda hard to tell what's the level of damage on the case...so, I'll try to take some close up pics and post them... Thanks people, and once again I'm sorry for confusion...

March 13, 2013, 02:24 PM	#8
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	The seating die?! The seating die shouldn't be touching the case except for the mouth, and then only if you're crimping. __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

March 13, 2013, 02:26 PM	#9
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	scratching the bullet ??? __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

March 13, 2013, 02:54 PM	#10
ViktorC Member Join Date: August 3, 2011 Posts: 15	Nope, scratching the case, right in the middle...

March 13, 2013, 03:01 PM	#11
ViktorC Member Join Date: August 3, 2011 Posts: 15	http://s1301.beta.photobucket.com/us...tml?sort=3&o=0

March 13, 2013, 03:03 PM	#12
ViktorC Member Join Date: August 3, 2011 Posts: 15	Same round, different view http://s1301.beta.photobucket.com/us...a2d86.jpg.html

March 13, 2013, 03:21 PM	#13
Fire_Moose Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2013 Posts: 211	Re: Lee sizing die leaves scratches on 9 mm brass, how safe ? That first one looks like a scrape...maybe clean the shell holder. Might be holding the casing cockeyed

March 13, 2013, 03:21 PM	#14
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	Is this a Lee Factory Crimp Die? __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

March 13, 2013, 03:30 PM	#15
ViktorC Member Join Date: August 3, 2011 Posts: 15	Yes Fire Moose, it is scrape...more than a scratch...line is where that scrape ends leaving bad looking edge... Brian, I do use Lee FCD as a last stage...I don't crimp with bullet seater, but I'm pretty sure that scrape came out of lee bullet seating die...Just to mention I load VERY slow and careful, one-by-one round...looking close at every round after every step, no day dreaming etc...

March 13, 2013, 03:32 PM	#16
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	The seating die should not be touching the case in that location. I can't even imagine how you could MAKE it touch the case in that spot. That looks like a fairly significant gouge. __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

March 13, 2013, 03:35 PM	#17
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	almost looks like somethings binding... the New Diminsion Hornady dies ( I like them ) could possibly bind & cause a scrape like that... does the Redding Die have a floating seater ??? __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

March 13, 2013, 03:54 PM	#18
ViktorC Member Join Date: August 3, 2011 Posts: 15	I agree, that gouge looks pretty bad, to the point I will discard the round and say safe... Other examples are nearly as bad and I feel they can be discharged safely. it doesn't give me too much headache as I had this happened roughly 5 out of 50 rounds but still would like to find out what causes it "Floating seater", don't know if question was for me, but just to repeat I use LEE 4 set dies and not sure what "floating seater" exactly is but tip inside of the die that pushes the bullet does move freely ...

March 13, 2013, 03:56 PM	#19
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	ooops... sorry... Redding dies were another thread __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

March 14, 2013, 12:26 AM	#20
dacaur Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 2010 Posts: 733	I get marks *EXACTLY* like that from my FCD on the rare occasion it post sizes a case, how sure are you its from the seater? If you are anything less than 100.00% sure, I would bet its from the FCD.... If that's not it, you definitely have a problem.... There is plenty of clearance inside my 9mm seating die.... If you take an unsized case , can you drop it into the die and have it drop out easily? If not, that's an issue. If you can, then the plot thickens....

March 14, 2013, 04:20 AM	#21
Ted D Member Join Date: January 27, 2013 Location: Dayton.Ohio Posts: 76	Mine does the same thing its not from the FCD its some where in the bullet seat die.I ran over 2000 rds through my M&P9Sheild with no problems.As of right now I'm checking my fired cases and I see no sratches after I tumbeled them Still a have about 1200 more cases to check. __________________ LIFE MEMBER OF THE NRA.GREENHORN RELOADER

March 14, 2013, 06:23 AM	#22
TimSr Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2013 Location: Rittman, Ohio Posts: 2,074	I had one like that. Had a tiny burr in it from the factory. About 4 seconds from a small stone on the dremel and its been perfect for years.

March 14, 2013, 04:45 PM	#23
William T. Watts Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2010 Location: Central Arkansas Posts: 1,074	Flitz or JB bore cleaner will not remove metal in any measurable amount, if there is any removal it's in MICRONS, they will both polish metal and remove carbon which is desirable.. William

March 14, 2013, 05:27 PM	#24
PA-Joe Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2010 Location: NEPA Posts: 909	Are you belling the case after resizing. It looks like the bullet is going in crocked (leaning to one side).

March 14, 2013, 06:00 PM	#25
dacaur Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 2010 Posts: 733	since its the seating die not the sizing die, you don't have to worry about taking off too much material... I would think... if I am wrong, someone please let me know....

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