Wolf vs. coyote

[silvrjeepr]

Never seen a wolf in MS either. I'm glad of that.

[hogdogs]

If you want a first hand idea of the size and strength potential of a wolf, go visit a farm with working Great Pyrenees livestock guard dogs...

They are one of the closest relatives to a wolf. Double dew claws and all...
My father's pet gyp weighs 100#+ and is in no way overweight. The males are significantly heavier going upwards of 130#...
Stretched out for "hugs", her front legs drape over my dad's shoulders and he is 6' even.

A wolf would be a handful for any man even if he has his awares and fortitude to square off with it.

A coyote... I would take him on face to face in a heart beat with out a man made weapon.

Brent

[IdahoHombre]

Wolves are not easy to hunt. They're pretty elusive, and difficult to call in. Much easier to go out and trick a few coyotes into range. Fish & Game is disgusted enough with the poor wolf harvest numbers, that they're going to start helicopter gunning them down (once we get some snow)!

[shortwave]

My shephard, which was Czech and West German bloodlines, weighed 134#'s. Which is considered large for a shephard by US butchered standards but a bit small in Czech or West Germany. He was long with a big head and long snout.
I know his strength,stamina and have seen him in action several times. Hard to handle.
Couldn't imagine fending off a wolf bare-handed, let alone a pack of wolves.

[IdahoHombre]

I wouldn't want to face a wolf in the wild either no matter how big it is. But the truth is, most of the wolves harvested have weighed less than 100# (here in Idaho).

[Hunter Customs]

deepforks, thanks for the info on the license and tag fees, I sure would like to head out there to hunt some of those big brutes.

Thanks to everyone that posted pictures, I really enjoyed looking at them.

Best Regards
Bob Hunter

[tahunua001]

Fish & Game is disgusted enough with the poor wolf harvest numbers, that they're going to start helicopter gunning them down (once we get some snow)!

amen to that...these are the only species that I would condone exterminating.

[warbirdlover]

We had a cougar on our leased hunting land this November all week. One guy had a close encounter walking to his stand in the dark.

I didn't think anyone saw any wolves this year but one of the guys said one was howling very close to his blind.

[Double Naught Spy]

ugh here we go again...these things were not reintroduced...they were introduced.

the indigenous wolves of idaho were red wolves...little larger than that coyote but a damn bit smaller than that wolf and they weren't pack hunters and had a higher mortality rate because they were not acclimatized to a harsher environment.

Um, no. There are no historic records of Red Wolf (Canis niger) in Idaho. This is per Hall and Kelson's Mammals of North America which is a compendium of traits, documented ranges, and marginal records as well.

If you don't have Hall and Kelson, see here... http://www.iucnredlist.org/apps/redlist/details/3747/0
This site has some revised information on the Red Wolf's historic ranges that are now shown to go up from Gulf states region up through Pennsylvania and up into extreme eastern Canada via the fossil record.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_wol...istoric_record

You are right in that there is overlap in size between the Red Wolf and the Coyote, but there is absolutely no historic or fossil evidence for the Red Wolf in Idaho.

The wolf indigenous to Idaho was indeed the Gray Wolf (Canis lupus). The re-indroduced variety is a subspecies (Canis lupus occidentalis) that was not in Idaho, but at the species level, it is a Gray wolf. Idaho's predominant subspecies was Canis lupus irremotus, recently combined as Canis lupus nublilus.

[IDAHO83501]

See them shoot them,,,These wolves have ruined Elk hunting in Idaho,,,Washington and Oregon hunters take note. Be pro-active on this issue,,,if you see one shoot it,,tell nobody...These evil dogs will ruin your hunting too...It won't happen overnight,,it will happen though...The warm and fuzzy crowd be damned,,,these animals are 100% evil,,a land shark.

[(*_*)]

Why would anybody want more of the big scarey looking one roaming about? The people who put them there should have to go camp with them.

[Double Naught Spy]

Be pro-active on this issue,,,if you see one shoot it,,tell nobody.

What you are advocating is poaching, an illegal activity that can result in some hefty fines, possible permanent loss of hunting priviledges, and possible jail time.

With that said, however, there are parts of the state that have no bag limit for wolves, but require all areas require wolf tags. In the no limit parts of the state, the wolf season is 7-10 months long.

http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/public/hunt/?getPage=121

[warbirdlover]

Why would anybody want more of the big scarey looking one roaming about? The people who put them there should have to go camp with them.

I agree. Unarmed, overnight in a tent with their wife and kids....

[Alaska444]

Dear DNS, not that I have ever disagreed with any of your posts, but I believe you are in error about the native Idaho wolf vs the Canadian wolf. Here is an article on the native vs the invasive Mackenzie Valley wolf:

http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2011/...n-gray-wolves/

My friends that grew up here in Idaho and have lived here for over 70 years also disagree that the Canadian gray wolf is native to this area. They don't read many fancy books, they do read, but they lived and watched the native wolf that did not bother their livestock. You cannot make the same claims about these monster Canadian wolves that are wiping out the elk herds here in northern Idaho.

This truly is an invasive and dangerous species that is also spreading parasitic disease that is a known danger to people. All of this information was available to our govn't before they ever placed one of these interlopers in the lower 48.

[hogdogs]

I cannot profess to condone a behavior that may jeopardize a man's 2A or voting rights...

Brent

[IdahoHombre]

Well, I wish we could get some solid answers on the original wolves in Idaho, which ones have been introduced, etc.

Just had an old timer up near St. Maries tell me that all of the wolves in his neck of the woods have naturally relocated over from Minn./Wisconsin, and are that brand of timberwolf.

Never heard that before.

I almost wonder if our IF&G biologists know all the answers. I'll get to the bottom of it, but, gez, it may take a long time to get an authoritative answer.

I don't know.

[warbirdlover]

All I can contribute is that the wolves in Wisconsin are killing cattle and deer and who knows what else. Now as far as the cougar we had on our land the whole week of gun deer season, I can't say.....

[Double Naught Spy]

Dear DNS, not that I have ever disagreed with any of your posts, but I believe you are in error about the native Idaho wolf vs the Canadian wolf. Here is an article on the native vs the invasive Mackenzie Valley wolf:

http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2011/...n-gray-wolves/

My friends that grew up here in Idaho and have lived here for over 70 years also disagree that the Canadian gray wolf is native to this area. They don't read many fancy books, they do read, but they lived and watched the native wolf that did not bother their livestock.

Okay, so you are playing the curmudgeon card? The, "We're old and don't read no fancy books because we done lived it" card? I am sorry if my citation of relevant scientific information is troubling for you, but what we are discussing does come down to biology. What I stated does not cast any doubts on the long term observations of old timers. I am not even sure why you are trying to set up this dichotomy of conflict, but your deed is misplaced. You seem to want to challenge me on statements I didn't make and that just does not make any sense.

Where am I in error? Are you suggesting that the Canadian Wolf isn't actually a Gray Wolf or are you suggesting that the wolf native to Idaho isn't a Gray Wolf? They are both Gray Wolves, the same species.

Maybe you are suggesting that I stated that the Canadian Gray Wolf was indiginous? I did not state this.

You cannot make the same claims about these monster Canadian wolves that are wiping out the elk herds here in northern Idaho.

I did not make any such claims.

So specifically what did I state that was in error? The only claims that I made were that the Red Wolf was never in Idaho as the indigenous wolf species and that the indigenous species was the Gray Wolf and the predominant subspecies of Idaho Gray Wolf was different from the introduced Canadian subspecies.

Nothing in the blog you posted is contrary to statements I made. It does discuss differences between the wolves, but these are difference of subspecies members of the same species.

This truly is an invasive and dangerous species that is also spreading parasitic disease that is a known danger to people. All of this information was available to our govn't before they ever placed one of these interlopers in the lower 48.

I never commented one way or the other that the Canadian Gray Wolf was invasive or dangerous or what information the government did or did not have, but I think I have found your problem. You don't seem to have a working understanding between the differences of what constitutes a species versus what consitutes a subspecies and so are using the terminology incorrectly which is causing confusion for you. The Gray Wolf and Red Wolf are different species, but the native Idaho Gray Wolf and the Canadian Gray Wolf are the same species, but different subspecies (see my post above). So your statement that the introduced wolves are a truly invasive species isn't exactly correct because what was introduced wasn't a different species, but a different subspecies.

Truly invasive? That isn't exactly right. They were fairly well isolated (hence the subspecies designation) before we forced their invasion by transporting them to a new region. Now they are simply expanding to fill the void and right or wrong, this is what was hoped for via the relocation program. They are invasive, but only because we made it possible for them to do so. This is yet another example of humans trying to manage nature and failing to comprehend the consequences of the course nature will take.

Without geting into all the fancy distinctions, a species is a naturally interbreeding population. A subspecies is an isolated (usually by geography) sub group within a given population.

[(*_*)]

http://youtu.be/v_pdTLZOOvM

In russia, traffic cop encounters band of roving wolves and hops into stopped car.

Edit: http://youtu.be/U9-MrPQV_ho in parking lot eating someones grocery's. These look about 1/2 the size of the pictures in this thread.

[comn-cents]

"In russia, traffic cop encounters band of roving wolves and hops into stopped car"

fake video!

[Double Naught Spy]

Yep, both videos are faked. They were part of an ad campaign for Eristoff Vodka in Russia. Apparently the wolves are CGI or some such digital manipulation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s00HQm_rWpk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uv4c3yd0nis

[shortwave]

Yep, both videos are fake.

That one with the Russian cop reminded me of the commercial we have here... and I forget the topic of the commercial but it shows two guys with meat strapped on their bodies taking off running and wolves being turned loose on them. Only one guy makes it back to the starting line.

[Alaska444]

Dear DNS, did you know that all dogs are the same species? Theoretically, you could breed a chiwawa with a great dane and have viable offspring. Yes, the wolf is a wolf is a wolf, but are all wolves the same? NO.

The critter that the Feds placed as an invasive wolf into Idaho and the west is the Mackenzie Valley wolf, the great dane of wolves. It is the largest, most aggressive wolf known in the Americas. It harbors Echinococcus found in 62% of all reintroduced wolves tested in one recent report. Look up Finland and their battle against the wolf why they consider this parasite one of the greatest public health hazards to their population.

There is little doubt that Idaho had a native wolf that was on the rebound after they stopped the poisoning program. It behaved differently than the huge Mackenzie Valley wolf, was not as small and didn't harm livestock and was afraid of people. Not so with the new monster wolf in Idaho today giving to us by special present from the Feds. In addition, I never claimed it was a red wolf.

So, are all housecats the same? Are all dogs the same? No. Within a single species, you can find great variety. Did you know that you can breed a wolf or coyote with a dog and have viable offspring? Did you know that people come in great variety? All the same species my friend, but who will state that there are not consistent medically important differences among the different races? That is a subject of many of the medical studies on how the different races handle different medicines.

No the Canadian, Mackenzie Valley wolf is NOT the same as the native Idaho wolf. It is an interloper running ruin of the Idaho eco-system. If you believe that they are the same wolf, then I suppose a chiwawa is really a great dane in disguise.

[Buzzcook]

I wouldn't want to face a wolf in the wild either no matter how big it is. But the truth is, most of the wolves harvested have weighed less than 100# (here in Idaho).

No they're monster huge giant wolves. The great Dane, Mastiff, Pit Bull of wolves.
"It's got sharp nasty pointy teeth"

[Double Naught Spy]

Dear DNS, did you know that all dogs are the same species? Theoretically, you could breed a chiwawa with a great dane and have viable offspring. Yes, the wolf is a wolf is a wolf, but are all wolves the same? NO.

You start out by saying I am in error in my post and then go through and argue with me over points I never made. When I ask you where I was in error, you continue to argue with me over points I have not made without answering my query for you to point out where I was wrong.

I realize that you are just trying to save face over your original obvious gaff, but in continuing to do so, you are just embarrassing yourself.

I know you find this really hard to believe and it causes you discomfort, but you are in agreement with me that the native species of Idaho wolf and the government introduced version are the same species but different subspecies. You can't change this by stating I am in error or by posing provocative questions and throwing out subspecies trait differences. You cited Tim Kemery's stuff and he is also in agreement that they are the same species, but different subspecies.

I know you are trying really hard to make a point about the validity of my statements, but you haven't actually offered any sort of valid counter information, just a lot of posturing.