NFA question

Brandon · January 15, 1999, 11:08 PM

Ok, I bet this has been covered before, but I am new to this. If I have a post ban AR and I have it registered as a SBR, does it then not fall under the so called Crime Bill of 94? This would, of course, be more expensive and not worth it but I think it is a good question.

Thanks,
Brandon

Daren Thompson · January 15, 1999, 11:46 PM

Brandon in the past I asked the same question. I called i Post with Pre features, I forget with forum probably legal. But any way Rob answered me and said he was in the process of doing just exactly what U and me are only thinking about. Now I have one more ? for Rob, have U checked this with the ATF? Doesn't section 922v still apply? U are still assebling a rifle with 2 many evil features. I read a blip about were U used to be able to do this with imported rifles to get around the 89 ban but then that door was closed. it did not say why.
Later
Daren

Brandon · January 16, 1999, 03:14 PM

OK I have done some checking. It "appears" that if you register a rifle as a SBR, it is now governed under laws covering NFA weapons exclusivly. Thus, with a $5 registration fee and a long wait on the ATF, you can do anything you want with this weapon SHORT of making it a MG. The only questions that remain for me are (1) Can you do this with a Post Ban receiver/rifle? (2) Does it require the assistance of a class III dealer? (I would rather register a receiver and then by a short bbl compleation kit)
Anybody want to shead light onto this? The laws and regs read like stereo insatructions.

Thanks
Brandon

danbrew · January 16, 1999, 07:12 PM

A SBR is still considered a "firearm" and thus falls under 922. You cannot have multiple evil features on a post ban gun, even if you make it a SBR. I'm positive of this.

The only way that you could put evil features on a post ban gun would be to turn it into a machinegun (the gun would then be considered a "machinegun", not a "firearm" - I know, it's stupid, but I didn't write the rules) -- and the only way that you could turn a post ban gun into a machinegun would be by dropping a registered DIAS into a post ban AR. Or by being a Class 2 manufacturer and then you could drill the holes. But then you would have a post-dealer sample - transferable only to LE or military.

BTW, the tax on a SBR is $200, not $5.

So, net/net, no you cannot have evil features on a post ban SBR.

Sorry...

danbrew :->

Rob Pincus · January 18, 1999, 02:20 AM

Danbrew,

I have recieved conflicting Info from a Licensed dealer/manufacturer who has consulted with the local ATF office.

Hopefully, we will have the paperwork back within the millenium...

AS has been demonstrated in the past this is an arcane matter in which 10 different ATF agents may have 12 different opinions on.

FWIW, I Do Not recommend using NFA registration as a means to circumvent the "Assault" features ban. If you want an NFA weapon, by all means get one. If all you want is a pre-ban AR, just go buy one.

BTW- I noticed on another thread that GLV says he has an SBR AR, perhaps he would like to share his experiences....

**Rich Lucibella** · January 18, 1999, 08:48 AM

Follow up to Rob's post:
The ability of ATF offices to give out erroneous information on the phone is legendary. When in doubt, get it in writing....it's just not worth a felony firearms conviction.
Rich

danbrew · January 18, 1999, 09:42 AM

And there have been several instances where somebody had it in writing from the local office and still got screwed -- when in doubt, get it in writing from the Technology Branch of NFA.

I hate to sound like a little kid here... but I *know* I'm right about not being able to add evil features to a post ban gun when you turn it into a SBR.

And, btw, there's nothing wrong with "using" NFA registration to get around the evil ban features.... except you'll be going the MG route and it's likely going to cost a heck of a lot more than the pre-ban route.

danbrew :->

Rob Pincus · January 18, 1999, 09:52 AM

It is precisely that cost coupled with the "hassle" factor that are the things I consider "wrong" with using NFA to get around "assault" feature restrictions.

Brandon · January 18, 1999, 11:33 PM

Hmmmm, looks like a call to ATF is in order to settle this. BTW, the main issue here for me is that a SBR (10.5 inch or so) would be brutal as far as flash without the flash suppressor. Also, it would look rather silly sans the collapsable stock. That is the key here; getting a SBR for less (the post ban receiver) AND the added bonus of the preban goodies. I still haven't found my first personnal AR yet, but I will let you know when I run into it

Brandon

PS Thanks to everyone for the responces. ALL were helpful.

January 15, 1999, 11:08 PM	#1
Brandon Junior Member Join Date: October 28, 1998 Location: White House, TN USA Posts: 8	Ok, I bet this has been covered before, but I am new to this. If I have a post ban AR and I have it registered as a SBR, does it then not fall under the so called Crime Bill of 94? This would, of course, be more expensive and not worth it but I think it is a good question. Thanks, Brandon

January 15, 1999, 11:46 PM	#2
Daren Thompson Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 1998 Location: Elizabethtown,KY,USA Posts: 459	Brandon in the past I asked the same question. I called i Post with Pre features, I forget with forum probably legal. But any way Rob answered me and said he was in the process of doing just exactly what U and me are only thinking about. Now I have one more ? for Rob, have U checked this with the ATF? Doesn't section 922v still apply? U are still assebling a rifle with 2 many evil features. I read a blip about were U used to be able to do this with imported rifles to get around the 89 ban but then that door was closed. it did not say why. Later Daren

January 16, 1999, 03:14 PM	#3
Brandon Junior Member Join Date: October 28, 1998 Location: White House, TN USA Posts: 8	OK I have done some checking. It "appears" that if you register a rifle as a SBR, it is now governed under laws covering NFA weapons exclusivly. Thus, with a $5 registration fee and a long wait on the ATF, you can do anything you want with this weapon SHORT of making it a MG. The only questions that remain for me are (1) Can you do this with a Post Ban receiver/rifle? (2) Does it require the assistance of a class III dealer? (I would rather register a receiver and then by a short bbl compleation kit) Anybody want to shead light onto this? The laws and regs read like stereo insatructions. Thanks Brandon

January 16, 1999, 07:12 PM	#4
danbrew Member Join Date: October 27, 1998 Location: Chicago Posts: 72	A SBR is still considered a "firearm" and thus falls under 922. You cannot have multiple evil features on a post ban gun, even if you make it a SBR. I'm positive of this. The only way that you could put evil features on a post ban gun would be to turn it into a machinegun (the gun would then be considered a "machinegun", not a "firearm" - I know, it's stupid, but I didn't write the rules) -- and the only way that you could turn a post ban gun into a machinegun would be by dropping a registered DIAS into a post ban AR. Or by being a Class 2 manufacturer and then you could drill the holes. But then you would have a post-dealer sample - transferable only to LE or military. BTW, the tax on a SBR is $200, not $5. So, net/net, no you cannot have evil features on a post ban SBR. Sorry... danbrew :->

January 18, 1999, 02:20 AM	#5
Rob Pincus Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 1998 Location: Hotels Posts: 3,668	Danbrew, I have recieved conflicting Info from a Licensed dealer/manufacturer who has consulted with the local ATF office. Hopefully, we will have the paperwork back within the millenium... AS has been demonstrated in the past this is an arcane matter in which 10 different ATF agents may have 12 different opinions on. FWIW, I Do Not recommend using NFA registration as a means to circumvent the "Assault" features ban. If you want an NFA weapon, by all means get one. If all you want is a pre-ban AR, just go buy one. BTW- I noticed on another thread that GLV says he has an SBR AR, perhaps he would like to share his experiences....

January 18, 1999, 08:48 AM	#6
Rich Lucibella Staff Join Date: October 6, 1998 Location: South Florida Posts: 10,229	Follow up to Rob's post: The ability of ATF offices to give out erroneous information on the phone is legendary. When in doubt, get it in writing....it's just not worth a felony firearms conviction. Rich

January 18, 1999, 09:42 AM	#7
danbrew Member Join Date: October 27, 1998 Location: Chicago Posts: 72	And there have been several instances where somebody had it in writing from the local office and still got screwed -- when in doubt, get it in writing from the Technology Branch of NFA. I hate to sound like a little kid here... but I know I'm right about not being able to add evil features to a post ban gun when you turn it into a SBR. And, btw, there's nothing wrong with "using" NFA registration to get around the evil ban features.... except you'll be going the MG route and it's likely going to cost a heck of a lot more than the pre-ban route. danbrew :->

January 18, 1999, 09:52 AM	#8
Rob Pincus Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 1998 Location: Hotels Posts: 3,668	It is precisely that cost coupled with the "hassle" factor that are the things I consider "wrong" with using NFA to get around "assault" feature restrictions.

January 18, 1999, 11:33 PM	#9
Brandon Junior Member Join Date: October 28, 1998 Location: White House, TN USA Posts: 8	Hmmmm, looks like a call to ATF is in order to settle this. BTW, the main issue here for me is that a SBR (10.5 inch or so) would be brutal as far as flash without the flash suppressor. Also, it would look rather silly sans the collapsable stock. That is the key here; getting a SBR for less (the post ban receiver) AND the added bonus of the preban goodies. I still haven't found my first personnal AR yet, but I will let you know when I run into it Brandon PS Thanks to everyone for the responces. ALL were helpful.