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March 12, 2013, 09:52 PM | #1 |
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Any moderates around here?
I dunno about others experience, but the new buying scares (and the shortages ) seem to have bought out the extremists in the left and right. I don't agree with restrictive gun laws or the talk about another scary black gun ban, but there's something somewhat unsettling about the holster rattling from even some guys I thought were pretty sensible about things like this, which just gives the left more to be misinformed about and something more for the right to get angry about. Does anyone think that maybe there could be some compromise or is this the new normal?
Last edited by Evan Thomas; March 14, 2013 at 11:36 PM. Reason: language. |
March 12, 2013, 10:49 PM | #2 |
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Extinct....like the tasmanian tiger. Bush killed the last one.
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March 12, 2013, 11:07 PM | #3 |
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Compromise on what? Personally I have not heard any "holster rattling", whatever that is. What I have heard are a lot of blowhards trying to demonize gun owners and guns in general, and semi-autos in particular.
If you mean compromising in gun further gun restrictions, we've been doing that since 1934 and look where it has gotten us. 20,000+ gun laws and none of them make the world safer. What I have heard from the gun owner community is anger at being further threatened, yet reasoned and factual disagreement with those who are lying through their teeth about effectiveness of more gun laws. Some people like to appear neutral by claiming both sides are hysterical. Yet that is a dishonest appraisal of a situation driven by one side that is rabidly trying to take away legal ownership of self defense weapons, lying about their intentions, and lying about the correlation of gun laws and safety. Maybe you need to find different people to hang out with because I am not seeing "holster rattling" y anyone other than the gun grabbing politicians.
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March 12, 2013, 11:50 PM | #4 |
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While more laws that limit our Constitutional freedoms does not meet my definition of acceptable “compromise” there are some things I feel we could agree on. I wish Mr. Obama would focus his efforts exclusively on the common ground before he ventures into taking away freedom.
For instance: Enforce existing firearms laws. Increase penalties for violating existing firearms laws. Assure information is entered into the NICS database that is already supposed to be there. Focus on the real criminals that commit acts of violence everyday and not so much on the folks waving Gadsden Flags.
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March 13, 2013, 12:13 AM | #5 |
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There is quite a few moderates out there. They are on the left and the right along with a fair amount of centrists. They believe in the RKBA. They don't campaign, they don't evangalize. But mind you they are listening. Just look at TFL. Go to the user CP and see all the guests who are viewing daily, but not registered yet and posting.
Nope, If your a moderate, I'm quite positive there are a fair number like you watching what is taking place. Bad as some may say it is, I have faith in a lot of my fellow americans and respect them. Not all and especially not the politicians. We as Americans always come through and a super majority of us will not roll over and play dead. And when the time comes they won't be silent either.
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March 13, 2013, 12:33 AM | #6 |
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I belong to a very big gun club. I have never heard anyone say they would give up their guns no matter what is passed. If that is "holster rattling", then so be it. I am not advocating breaking any laws.
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March 13, 2013, 12:42 AM | #7 | |
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March 13, 2013, 02:16 AM | #8 | |
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March 13, 2013, 05:15 AM | #9 |
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Compromise?
Read this: http://thelawdogfiles.blogspot.com/2.../a-repost.html I am a moderate. Always have been. But words have meaning, and when one side lies and tries to twist the meaning of words beyond recognition, there can be no compromise. Connecticut is a perfect example. Connecticut has an AWB -- theirs never went away when the Federal AWB expired in 2004. So the rifle used at Sandy Hook School was, by definition, not an assault weapon. But that didn't prevent the incident, so now Connecticut thinks if they just define MORE guns as "assault weapons" that's going to make a difference. You can't compromise with people who refuse to acknowledge the issue and who refuse to discuss the real problem(s). Last edited by Aguila Blanca; March 13, 2013 at 04:33 PM. |
March 13, 2013, 07:12 AM | #10 | |
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I think the intranetz and people isolating themselves by utilzing new technologies has really pushed discourse and politics in many areas in the USA now. Just look at Congress, and online commentary for any newspaper. |
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March 13, 2013, 08:29 AM | #11 |
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Give them an inch and they take a mile. No thank you.
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March 13, 2013, 08:48 AM | #12 | |
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If they did, . . . they would compromise on their absolute stand against enforcing the gun laws already on the books. If they did, . . . they would compromise on their demand that we legitimize the millions of criminals who broke felony grade laws illegally entering this country. If they did, . . . instead of concentrating on the comparative few killed with firearms, . . . they would compromise on their willingness to look the other way at drunen driving, drugged drivers. I could continue, . . . but you are probably bored by now, . . . and either you do or do not see the fallacy of liberal thinking. Changing your mind will be something you have to do, . . . I've given you some information, . . . what you do with it is your answer or your problem. May God bless, Dwight
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March 13, 2013, 08:50 AM | #13 |
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No
Not now........not ever............never!
Lock and Load! |
March 13, 2013, 09:32 AM | #14 |
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The sense of being powerless and ignored is a strong motivator for people to do strange things. We have the RKBA but they want to tell you what you can have. We have freedom of speech but they want you to say what they say or you're wrong. It's a strange place.
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March 13, 2013, 09:38 AM | #15 | |
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We currently have (at least): The 1934 National Firearms Act The 1968 Gun Control Act Had, the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban and still have various state versions Most state require handgun permits Some states require licenses to own ANY firearm and even ammunition Various state controls on type of ammunition Various state controls making entire classes/models/brands of handguns illegal Felons of any type or violation are prohibited from EVER owning firearms. Writing bad checks totaling over $750 or $1,000, I forget which and it might be state dependent, for example... Some folks guilty of extremely minor misdemeanors are prohibited FOREVER, if the theoretical jail time exceeds an arbitrary and capricious number, which can be changed and prohibit a person suddenly, for a crime committed 50 years ago, who has not be prohibited until the law changed, now. Compromise, you say? Who exactly IS and always has been compromised?
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March 13, 2013, 09:52 AM | #16 |
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A compromise would imply that both parties surrender something and recieve something in return.
We, as gunowners, haven't recieved much in the way of a return for anything we "compromised" on. Hell, even the Firearm Owners Protection Act was attempted to be destroyed by the addition of the Hughes Amendment. I'm fairly libertarian on most things, but bar no compromise on the issue of the 2nd Amendment.
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March 13, 2013, 09:56 AM | #17 |
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Compromise on various measures is not likely unless there is a general agreement that a law abiding citizen can buy a firearm and carry one with something as simple as the current NICS check.
Since Schumers, Feinsteins, Bloombergs and various urban proponents of gun control won't accept this - there is no starting point. If their extreme position did not exist - there could be a conversation of some things. What those might be are conjecture but the ability to own and carry the current range of firearms is the starting point.
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March 13, 2013, 09:59 AM | #18 | |
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We, as gun owners have been compromising, at least since 1934. Did the 1934 NFA save any lives? Probably not. After all, none of the things that were regulated were really any more dangerous than the things that weren't (though, I would say an argument could be made for machine guns, though the number of crimes committed by them, even at the time were miniscule). It was a compromise. It's the attitude that if we compromise, maybe they'll leave us alone. But make no mistake, the anti-gunners ultimate goal is to ban all guns. Every time we compromise, we do not gain anything, but the anti-gunners get one step closer to their ultimate goal. |
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March 13, 2013, 10:01 AM | #19 | |
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http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...,7515323.story The kicker is that one of the suspects has been arrested thirty times and has six convictions and the other has been arrested eight times with two convictions for weapons violations, yet in Chicago, police chief McCarthy blames guns for the violence. It just boggles the mind what purports to be common sense in that city.
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March 13, 2013, 10:03 AM | #20 |
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my personal soap box is that the NFA was nothing but a gun grabbing ploy to disarm most of the citizenry. Heck, even pistols were supposed to be regulated under it.
In addition, the NFA was passed after Prohibition had been repealed, leaving a large number of Revenue Men looking at unemployment. FDR couldn't have any of that. I read somewhere, and will attempt to find it, that most of the the Thompsons and BARs used by the Barrow gang were stolen from the police and assorted National Guard armories. So, yeah, real crime stopper that one was.
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March 13, 2013, 10:10 AM | #21 |
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I think there are plenty of moderates around, but IMO moderates tend not to be the ones that are yelling the loudest on either side. You don't increase your newspaper circulation (or clicks these days) or your ratings by putting moderate and generally rational people in your articles or on your TV show.
If you threaten to increase the scarcity of any item or group of items there will be some level of panic buying and hoarding. It is not just guns, it works that way with other items as well. I don't really consider that to be an extreme behavior, I see it as a perfectly normal and well understood by economist behavior. Congressional redistricting also plays into the political extremes, IMO. If a Republican comes out with a moderate position on gun control (maybe supports small steps) he/she is likely to face an expensive primary challenge. Same for the democrat in the opposite direction. They sort of learn to keep their moderate opinions to themselves. I think that is why we also see many of these private conferences involving people from congress trying to compromise. Look what happened to Coburn when it was leaked he "might" be supporting UBC's. He was killed by the right (rightfully so, IMO). I don't fit in the normal "right vs left" paradigm. I consider my positions on gun control moderate, unfortunately many on the very far side of the gun control argument would not consider them moderate at all. |
March 13, 2013, 10:13 AM | #22 |
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moderate = lukewarm
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March 13, 2013, 10:32 AM | #23 | |
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I don't think the anti gun crowd is willing to give ground on any existing laws, so why should we be expected to embrace any new ones.
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March 13, 2013, 10:37 AM | #24 | |
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It's a shame.
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March 13, 2013, 10:42 AM | #25 |
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I agree, Vanya, but I don't think that is really anything new. The man mentioned in your signature certainly had his fair share of extreme arguments and lack of compromise with Hamilton and Adams
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