Let's chew on the ATV's a bit.

[Wild Bill Bucks]

I don't think I have seen a thread on 4-wheelers here at TFL ( haven't gone back in the history to far though) but I will post this anyway.

I use an ATV to get to my stand. I am having problems with my knees lately, and I can not walk like I used to. Several years back, my sons and I shot 3 bucks quite a bit in the woods from my pick-up, and by the time we dragged them out, my knees were killing me, so I decided to buy one.

Now I don't "Sight See" on mine during hunting season, and I try to be as careful, about riding through an area as possible, so I don't screw up someone else's hunting. If I see some one is in an area, I try to get out as soon as is possible. I put a quiet muffler on mine, so it is hard to hear it more than about 50 yards away.

I use it to get to my stand, and get me and my game home. It is simply used as a means of transportation, and I don't hunt off of it. This is not only illegal, but is very unethical, not to mention dangerous.

But I got to tell ya guys, I have ridden by deer that will stand there and watch you go by, as close as 25 yards. If you are traveling on a path, and not driving like a maniac, they don't seem to be very spooked of them. Now if you stop or slow down, or they sense any difference in your movement, they will move away from you, but I have never seen one bolt and run, like they are afraid of them.

In my neck of the woods, the deer see all kinds of pick-ups and ATV's, and hear chain saws and other motors all year long. Farm tractors, chain saws, ATV's pick-ups, motor cycles, are a common place thing around here, and I think the deer have just gotten so used to them, that unless they present some kind of danger , they are willing to put up with them.

As far as someone coming through my hunting area on one, I would much rather him ride through (If he is driving right) than to have him walk through, with his rifle over his shoulder, kicking leaves with his feet, whistling "The old Grey Mare". At least he gets through my area quicker, and things can settle down in a very short while.

I always park mine so I can see the area well enough to be able to tell if someone is jacking with it, ( $8000.00 and a long walk home, will get you shot, where I hunt) but cover it well enough so that deer aren't aware of it.

I'm not saying that there aren't some pretty inconsiderate SOB's out there, but for the most part, I don't think that a guy just getting around to hunt will bother your hunting to bad.

That's just my take, so what say you guy's ?

[camper4lyfe]

At my family's property (used to be my grandma's, but now owned by 3 uncles), roughly 80 acres, it's not uncommon to use ATV's to get back to the woods, then from there it's all on foot. If you get a deer, you can either drag it to the ATV's then use the ATV's to haul it to the truck, or haul it to the ATV's and use the tractor if a few deer were taken.

A lot depends on the people and the land. ATV's have their place, as long as they're used responsibly.

[Buzzard]

I have a Polaris X2 that is a 2006, it has over 8000 miles on it and I plan on using it to take me to a place where you can't get to without one. I pan on camping there and hunting the surrounding area in Jan. This is gonna be an archery hunt and I think I will be the only one in this area. Good 10 mile hike from the road.

[dipper]

I have a Polaris X2 that is a 2006, it has over 8000 miles on it and I plan on using it to take me to a place where you can't get to without one.

If you can drive a ATV there you can certainly walk there.

That's just my take, so what say you guy's ?

I don't like them on public land---private land is another story---do as you wish and ride all day if you like.
I am not against ATVs in general, I have owned a few along with a number of motorcycles ---woods bikes---and I always rode them in areas were it was permitted and never during hunting season.
If you are using your ATV in a area were they are legal to use, go right ahead---but I still would not want you riding through an area I am hunting.
If you are taking a chance and riding in were you are not aloud to operate a motor vehicle you're out of line.
Consider that many guys get up at 4:00 AM etc. and obey the laws and walk in ---in the dark --to their favorite or a good spot.
Then here comes some guy riding through on a ATV---not cool.

I always park mine so I can see the area well enough to be able to tell if someone is jacking with it, ( $8000.00 and a long walk home, will get you shot, where I hunt) but cover it well enough so that deer aren't aware of it.

Well, were I have done most of my hunting, riding one through the woods and disturbing hunters WILL get you " Jacked with" ---I don't think shot but certainly wouldn't be a enjoyable experience.
Oh, and I know all about bad knees.



Dipper

[davlandrum]

ATVs are great when used responsibly and with a little bit of common sense (which seems to be in short supply these days...).

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=309204


The area we deer hunt (when we can get drawn for tags) has a whole system of ATV trails. That is one reason we go there. We can get really deep and then start hoofing it.

[HeroHog]

Originally Posted by Dipper

If you can drive a ATV there you can certainly walk there.

No, he can't. Neither can I. For those with disabilities, they are the ONLY way we can get in the woods.

[Buzzard]

Here in AZ it is legal to ride an ATV on the street, mine is street tagged and legal. I called Game & Fish to ask about the area that I want to go into and was told it would be fine. There is a legal riding trail that goes in this area but not used by many.
I plan on riding into the area , setting up a camp then hunting around that area, just away from camp. In my condition it will be about all I can do.
Got an idea of a place to set up a blind and hunt from it.

[dipper]

I plan on using it to take me to a place where you can't get to without one. I pan on camping there and hunting the surrounding area in Jan.

Didn't see anything about being disabled in the OP.
I have helped build stands for disabled hunters and have wheeled two teenagers bound in wheelchairs to these handicapped stands so they could hunt.
I have also helped hunters get crossbow permits because they couldn't draw a conventional bow.
I have also seen people that are not truly disabled try to take advantage of things.
In the states I've worked in, if you are disabled, you can get a permit for going outside the norm--you just have to be truly disabled .

Dipper

[HeroHog]

I am having problems with my knees lately, and I can not walk like I used to.

That is a disability. If you can't walk to your hunting grounds, then riding an ATV is your off-road wheelchair. As to a disabled placard, they are not required in any state I am aware of for off-road use, only to park in the gimpy spots at the mall. I do hope that you are not suggesting that I need one for my ATV and my car now.

I doubt that you intended to step on any disabled persons toes but you made some gross assumptions and painted with a bit too wide of a brush on this one. If someone wants to give me a hard time in the woods for legally getting to my hunting spot, they had better be ready for one hell of a scrap because I will verbally let them have it with both barrels. Should they cross the line and decide to damage my property or me, they will pay a far greater price than a tongue-lashing.

[kraigwy]

I dont hunt on an ATV, (I use horses) nor do I have one. I have no problem what so ever with those who use them. We have lots of public land in Wyoming. They all are criss-crossed with roads an trails. Most public land is posted saying that motor vehicles (including ATVs) are to stay on the existing trails. I see nothing wrong with that policy. I see nothing wrong with using ATVs to get you to where you can hunt. Sure there are those who abuse land, taking ATVs or whatever, but you're gonna have those wheather you lock out ATVs or not. I see no reason to punish lawful users of ATVs or people who break the laws. Thats like saying lets stop hunting because some people poach.

[dipper]

I am having problems with my knees lately, and I can not walk like I used to.

That is a disability

No, it's not. You may think it is but it's not.
I wear a knee brace from time to time and my right knee is a mess---I am not disabled by any definition of the word.
I know people who are confined to wheel chairs and crippled and CAN'T walk---I wouldn't dream to show them the scares on my knee and tell them I'M DISABLED. If I told my niece who is wheelchair bound that I too am disabled because I have sore knees she'd laugh at me.

I doubt that you intended to step on any disabled persons toes but you made some gross assumptions and painted with a bit too wide of a brush on this one

No, I did not intend to step on any disabled persons toes--but I am not a mind reader either.
Again, I didn't see any mention of a disability in the OP--no mention of one until you mentioned it.
You must be assuming I should have known that---I assumed nothing,just went by what was posted.

As to a disabled placard, they are not required in any state I am aware of for off-road use

Well, you like I, are not aware of everything I guess.
In states that I have worked in, you can get a permit for ATV use if you are disabled--this lets you ride in to places others are not permitted to.
I think it is a good idea for handicapped people who want to hunt.

In looking over the posts, I didn't see anything that should have made you angry ----I think YOU assumed a lot.
Maybe your sore knees are acting up.
Good luck with your DISABILITY
Visit a childrens hospital sometime or someplace like Victory Junction---then you'll see what a disability your sore knees are.

[grymster2007]

The entire National Forest system has been directed to develop motor vehicle use rules for their road systems. The NFs I frequent pretty well limit all motorized vehicles to existing, inventoried roads with a few OHV only designated trail systems and recreation areas. The inventorying process erred on the conservative side and now I may not legally drive my truck or ride my ATV to my camp. The camp I've been using for over 20 years.:barf:

http://www.fs.fed.us/projects/

Check your favorite National Forest before you ride!

[MeekAndMild]

Nothing an ATV can do that a tractor can't do with more power and in deeper water.

[HeroHog]

Maybe your sore knees are acting up.
Good luck with your DISABILITY
Visit a childrens hospital sometime or someplace like Victory Junction---then you'll see what a disability your sore knees are.

You don't know my disabilities and your sarcasm speaks volumes. I've spent many hours in the Veterans hospital. I have held the hands of the dying... those who are very close to me. Apparently you haven't had any real knee issues. Otherwise you wouldn't be so glib about the life changing constant pain and the inability to do the even the simple things that you take for granted.

Can we agree that not everyone on an ATV in the woods is a jerk and should be harassed because they may have inadvertently scared wildlife while behaving in a perfectly legal manner?

Either way, I believe my point is well made and you either get it or you don't and I'll not waste my breath in a pointless argument from this point on.

[HOGGHEAD]

I have owned 10-12 4-wheelers over the last 20 or so years. I now have a Kawasaki Mule. I would not trade it for two of the others. It is the finest hunting vehicle I have ever owned.

Personally I believe you shouild be able to use a 4-wheeler on public ground!! Why not?? The problem is that people abuse things. I can remember when you could drive 4-wheelers on certain federal lands. Then they were outlawed because of a few bad apples. Instead of punishing people who use them like the have some sense, they should punish the people who act like idiots!!

I am a handicapped person, and would not be able to hunt if I was not allowed to hunt off my Mule. I actually have a permit that allows me to shoot off my Mule. But even if I did not need my Mule to hunt, I would not have a problem with peope using them to hunt with, just as long as they act like they have some sense.

If you do not like them then go and hunt in terrain where they can not go. My taxes pay for the public land as well. So who should be able to tell me that I can not use my Mule?? Tom.

[dipper]

Hogghead,

I have absolutely no problem with you and your ATV nor would I dream of taking it away from you---YOU are handicapped---sorry for that.

am a handicapped person, and would not be able to hunt if I was not allowed to hunt off my Mule. I actually have a permit that allows me to shoot off my Mule

That's what I said---a permit--I support that totally.

Like I said, I don't appreciate it when I walk three and a half miles into the woods to get to my stand, and then someone drives into the woods not 50 yards from me.
Here's the deal, that LAZY person wouldn't be anywhere near me IF he wasn't riding his fat backside on a ATV. If he had to walk in, most would stay home.
AND, 95% of the guys that do it are not handicapped---just lazy.
AND, I said that most of my hunting is done on land where motor vehicles are not permitted--UNLESS it is someone like you who is truly handicapped and gets a permit.

HeroHog,
You said sore knees are a disability---I'm saying they just ain't by any definition of the word.
If you have been around truly disabled people, you would know that.

Can we agree that not everyone on an ATV in the woods is a jerk and should be harassed because they may have inadvertently scared wildlife while behaving in a perfectly legal manner?

Yes, we can.
But those that ride willy nilly through the woods "road hunting" ARE jerks.
Like I said, I and others scout, walk in, and hunt.
Why should we be put out at all by some lazy SOB on a ATV?
AND, I am not talking about truly handicapped hunters.
Maybe I'm just an idiot but when I was a WCO and hunting, I COULD have driven my truck in to take my deer out, I didn't, I drug it out like everyone else.
I was asked to "go get the truck" a number of times and didn't---wasn't fair in my mind.
When not on patrol ( in uniform) I thought I was just like everybody else.

Dipper

[Art Eatman]

Several things sorta come out of this thread and others I've read: First off, none of us like irresponsible and thoughtless behavior.

Second, intelligent use of an ATV doesn't really hurt anything.

All that said, it seems to me that since you can't control other folks' idiocies on public land, you need to figure out where you can hunt and have lower odds of being messed up by the Dumbo crowd. That's sort of a self-defense deal, looks like.

I dunno. Public land is open to ALL the public, and half of all people are below average...

[davlandrum]

half of all people are below average

Art,

I think "half" might be a low estimation

[crowbeaner]

Well I have had some experiences with bubbas and their ATVs myself. 2 years ago I was camping/hunting the state land near here. After listening to the idiots racing up and down the road I moved my basecamp and such a couple miles up the road. It was well after 10 PM and here come 2 more idiots riding around on the tractor trails that are closed (OFF LIMITS) to vehicles of all kinds. So much for my hunting sneak into the area where I'd seen big buck sign. Last year I was hunting the southern zone and was overnighting in my car. Well after 10 PM here come 2 nitwits driving across and up and down the trails I wanted to hunt in the morning. They couldn't miss seeing my car, and didn't care that they were riding them where (AGAIN) no vehicles are allowed. Perhaps the DEC officers who so diligently check my license and gun every time they see me should spend a few hours after hours and catch these bozos in the act. It would certainly justify their salaries in MY book.

[HOGGHEAD]

Art I have to disagree with you about public ground being open to everybody. Our public ground in the USA is being regulated every day by Tree Huggers and politicians who have never set foot on the ground that they want to regulate.

There are federal grounds that I could hunt with my 4-wheeler ten years ago that are illegal for me to go onto today.

There are complete tracts of land that we are not even allowed to hunt on anymore. And they are federally funded, and federally purchased lands. And we are loosing thousands of acres every day. And this land was paid for by Pittman.

I am not only talking about handicapped access, I am talking about not being able to access the land at all.

I have a good friend who lost both of his legs in a mining accident. there are places where he is not allowed to go with his 4-wheeler. And that SUCKS. Tom.

[HiBC]

I am with crowbeaner.I have lived and hunted in Colorado over 40 years.I am 56.Dropping a motorcycle tore my lateral,medial,and ACL and plateu fractured my tibia.I have also had cartilage removed from that knee.My right ankle is an arthitic gob from laving my lateral malleolis ripped off.I dont have the anchor point for my outside ankle ligaments.I can't run.Last fall I backpacked a week's worth of food and gear to 9000 feet in the flattop wilderness.My 60 year old brother with bad knees from Florida did the same.It takes some guts.
And we got nailed by an all night blizzard with lightning on top of us.

Yeah,it POSSIBLE for someone to use an ATV responsibly,and SOME people do.
But outside a wilderness area in the national forest,the idea of quietly going in on Thursday,whispering,not making campfires,etc,will ALWAYS,ALWAYS end up with opening morning,a hunting group with ATV's driving around,I'm gonna head em off at the pass,or getting bored and playing motorsports,etc. There is back and forth traffic all day long.Its not just a few bad apples.Its typical.I'd say it is the rare gentleman who uses them responsibly.
Reading old African hunting books,the hunting car had to be at least 1000 yds from the game.
Some similar ethic needs to be mandated.Maybe a one hour timer,that must count down.It resets every time the ATV is started,and counts when the ATV is shut off.In that one hour wait,it is a felony to shoot,and the ATV will be confiscated.That would allow the responsible use ATV owners talk about,and clean up the clowns.
For the truly disabled,sure,anything to help them enjoy the woods.Just having a pot belly isn't enough.
For those who say"I own the national forest and I should go anywhere I want" How about if anti-hunters want to have a series of rock concerts throughout the national forest during hunting season? It is their forest,too.Would you support that?What about the rights of someone old and fat and busted up that quietly gets up and walks a half mile to a stand in the dark,and shivers,waiting for the sunrise,only to be greated by the buzz of ATV's at 7:45 AM blasting by his stand?
It is a lo like being a quiet fisherman,and having the water skiers use you as a pylon to slalom around,
Tell me,how would you feel if you were on private land,out before dawn in the sage hunting antelope with a bad sinus infection.A group of antelope was near,and you had watched them a while.Too far.But,there was some cover,so you make a 200 yd low crawl,bush to bush,and yes,find cactus.Just about there when the ATV's come racing up to the fence,and hang rifles over the fenceposts ,intending to shoot into the private land.Yes,I'll confess,I put my crosshairs on the engine blocks of the ATV's.The only reason I didn't scrap them is I knew I would be in great legal trouble,but it would have been justice.
Like I said,if you are a vet who was blasted by an IED,use whatever will get you there!.Any legit disability,fine.
Every body else,its hunting,not search and destroy.Use your feet!!
Same goes the the %&**!!!'s who think antelope hunting is racing around in a pickup and jumping and blasting.

[dipper]

HiBC,

You said it better than I did.

Here's something that could be a novel idea.
Let the ATV guys have the forest all year---except for hunting season---like, share the forest--you get your time and I get mine.
What would ya' all think of that??

Dipper

[MeekAndMild]

Some pretty serious questions here. In no particular order:

I guess nobody here is really interested in throwing out their ATV and getting a tractor that can do anything an ATV can do but do it better? Hogghead, I see you've found out about Kawasaki Mules but my tractor can carry your Mule plus a deer or two and do it in 3 feet of water or up a 60% grade.

Dipper, I'd wonder if you'd be up to the challenge of walking a couple of miles into the woods with a small handful of tiny pebbles in your left boot? Nothing to disable you or anything, just something to make you focus your attention to take your mind off your real troubles.

Dave, by definition I don't think that over half can be below average. Could it be that the ones who are that way are just so damned stupid they seem like a whole lot more? Kind of like the way one hyperactive kid in the house seems like five or six?

If ATVs are banned will it open the door for more horse rentals?

Do you ever think there will be a market for (quiet) electric ATVs? About 40 years ago I saw a Popular Mechanics article about how to build an electric mini bike that would go 30 mph and had about a 50 mile range. Imagine how much range you could get if you had a place to stack 4 or 6 batteries?

[dipper]

Dipper, I'd wonder if you'd be up to the challenge of walking a couple of miles into the woods with a small handful of tiny pebbles in your left boot? Nothing to disable you or anything, just something to make you focus your attention to take your mind off your real troubles.

No thanks Meek and Mild,
My knee is enough for that--no problem though, I have Advil and BenGay and I'm a big boy not looking for excuses to ride when others walk.
Some people I know WISH Advil and BenGay took their problem away.

Dipper

[HOGGHEAD]

The reason why the anti-hunters are going to win in the end run is simple. We as hunters can not agree on anything, so we are not united against them. There is so much national land that hunting is not allowed on. I was not talking about 4-wheeers-I was saying there is no hunting there at all. And yes if they want to have a rock concert then let them. It is their land also.

I have been listening to the bow hunters argue wth the gun hunters, who argue with the ML hunters, who argue with the crossbow hunters---for years. And the arguments make me sick.

This old "my way or the highway" mentality stinks. Why is your way of hunting right and mine wrong?? Who is any one to say if a person can not walk in they should not be allowed?? Or even if they can walk in but do not want to?? Or choose to ride a 4-wheeler because they get as much enjoyment out of the 4-wheeler as you do out of hunting. If you are really pis*** off then put your money where your mouth is and buy your own property. I did, and nobody drives their 4-wheeler on MY PROPERTY unless I say it is OK.

I understand the opinions of hunters who hate to be busted by 4-wheelers. It has happened to me also. But it is a fact of life. I have a friend who climbs down into a canyon every year to elk hunt. He works very hard at hunting, and he goes into an area where 4-wheelers can not go.

A tractor is a good idea. No doubt. However I am unable to get on and off a tractor. However we are going to have a 50HP tractor modified this winter so I can help in the hayfields, and feed next year. However I expect to pay well over twice as much for the tractor.

And for closing. I sure hope some of you guys do not get old, or ever suffer from an injury or handicap. Because surely you would stop hunting. And by the way the next time somebody messes up on a 4-wheeler and is acting like an idiot. Just drag them off of it and whip their ***. That will work. Tom.