Newbie with load questions

ah141nj · December 1, 2008, 09:49 PM

Hi Guys,
Been reading my 3 manuals for close to 2 weeks now. Speer, Lyman & Lee.
All have different data. Going to do my first rounds tomorrow night.
Right now I will be using Winchester 115 gr FMJ's, Win 231, once fired Winchester & Remington brass & CCI primers with a Lee Auto Disk. Going to load for my Glock 19.

Is it safe to use the Factory loaded OALS, seat lenght & crimp size from my WWB & Rem UMC rounds? I like the OAL from the WWB because I did have some FTF problems with the Remington's.

I have noticed the manuals I have are not that diversified. Any manual more thorough than the next?

I want to try Montana Gold FMJ's & CMJ's with Magtech brass in the near future. But havent found any data on Montana Gold at all. Shouldnt loads be "more bullet specific"?

For future reference, shouldnt a load for a TMJ be different for a FMJ? Not listed in my manuals.

kraigwy · December 1, 2008, 10:00 PM

Manuels are differant because they dont use the same equipment for testing as other writers of manuels. You cannot expect the same results, there are too many varibles:

To name a few, and this in not a complete list:

Depth and strenth of crimp of case mouth
Tolerance in the chamber
Barrel bore diameter
Depth of grooves
With and and number of loads
Bullet diameter compaired to barrel
Hardness of bullet
Weather
Primer variation
Mainspring of gun, weight of hammer
Shape of firing pin
Capacity of cartridge case
Depth to which the bullet is seated
Weight of bullet

Dont assume everything is the same in every firearm or ammo component, they arnt.

Find a safe starting load, work up changing every component you have control of until you have developed a load that fits you and your gun.

Vstrom · December 1, 2008, 10:39 PM

If you reload to the same oal as factory overall lengths you will be just fine providing the loads work properly in your magazine. I use to shoot competition bench rest and we were always messing with lengths. Most reloading manuals are close but as you see by looking between manuals none are exact and that leeway in lengths, powder types ,charge loads ect.ect. are what makes reloading fun. What I would suggest would be to load a bullet in a shell with out powder and primer and keep lowering the bullet into the shell until its at the longest listed length and see if that oal cycles in your gun if not go shorter but not any shorter than the shortest length listed in any of the manuals, or just go to factory length all should shoot fine and amazingly enough some lengths will be more accurate than others!!HMMM welcome to the mysterious world of reloading! Have fun.

Khaot1c · December 1, 2008, 10:40 PM

I'm a new guy to reloading too. kraigwy pretty much hit it on the head. There are so many variables to what you would think is a pretty consistant process. But real life has a way of playing cruel tricks, and reloading is one of those things.

I kinda run into the same issue that you're talking about - picking a bullet that doens't have any clear cut load data. And then when you do find data, it's going to suggest a powder that (A) you dont' want to use or - (B) [as is the case with me] your local supplier doesn't carry the powder.

Like VSTROM said - OAL is goig to vary. There are warnings about preassure that can be created from a high OAL. This normally occurs becuase you went to short on the OAL (i'm sure i'll get corrected if i'm wrong) But i think the closer the bullet is to the lands, the more accurate the load will be. But yes, not all guns will feed a long bullet. The COAL was implemented to stanardize the length for magazine capacity, feeding, etc. However, every machine in the world has a tolerance, you just need to find the one for your particular gun.
In short, this forces you to acquire more data. I'm not really willing to jepordize safety for 'guessing' on a particular loadout. However, I also feel that a good collection of load-data paired with a little reading of the SAMMI spec for your caliber can lead you to educated decision.

Case in point: For making plinking/target/range loads, I really like Rainier bullets for my 9mm and .40 However, finding load data was a bit of a trick. I joined a site called AmmoGuide.com which has a lot of user submitted loads, and a pretty active forum. In short, there are a lot of resouces to pool from to help make an educated decsion.

Rainier bullets suggest using LEAD load data. However, most lead bullets are formed far different than TMJ or FMJ. So, the OAL has to be derived from knowing the SAMMI spec for the round and comparing the bullet to other manufacturers. But the #1 rule that can't be exmphasis enoguh is ALWAYS start with the START LOAD data. Safety first - it would be very unwise to jump straight to the maximum load. and yes, the maximum load is going to vary from book to book. However, the starting loads should all be pretty close.

I'm a guy that likes to tinker, seems i always want to improve things. I'm not a great marksman, but the only way to get better is to practice. etc. Can't get reliable practice without consistant loads - so consistancy is key. And, when working up loads - make sure you take good notes. If you load for more than one caliber, you'll probably have more than one powder. It's gonna happen.....
Me, I like using Tightgroup in my 9mm and AA#7 in my .40 However, I am finding a special place for Power Pistol in my .40 as well.

December 1, 2008, 10:00 PM	#2
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	Manuels are differant because they dont use the same equipment for testing as other writers of manuels. You cannot expect the same results, there are too many varibles: To name a few, and this in not a complete list: Depth and strenth of crimp of case mouth Tolerance in the chamber Barrel bore diameter Depth of grooves With and and number of loads Bullet diameter compaired to barrel Hardness of bullet Weather Primer variation Mainspring of gun, weight of hammer Shape of firing pin Capacity of cartridge case Depth to which the bullet is seated Weight of bullet Dont assume everything is the same in every firearm or ammo component, they arnt. Find a safe starting load, work up changing every component you have control of until you have developed a load that fits you and your gun. __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

December 1, 2008, 09:49 PM	#1
ah141nj Member Join Date: November 6, 2008 Location: NJ Posts: 76	Newbie with load questions Hi Guys, Been reading my 3 manuals for close to 2 weeks now. Speer, Lyman & Lee. All have different data. Going to do my first rounds tomorrow night. Right now I will be using Winchester 115 gr FMJ's, Win 231, once fired Winchester & Remington brass & CCI primers with a Lee Auto Disk. Going to load for my Glock 19. Is it safe to use the Factory loaded OALS, seat lenght & crimp size from my WWB & Rem UMC rounds? I like the OAL from the WWB because I did have some FTF problems with the Remington's. I have noticed the manuals I have are not that diversified. Any manual more thorough than the next? I want to try Montana Gold FMJ's & CMJ's with Magtech brass in the near future. But havent found any data on Montana Gold at all. Shouldnt loads be "more bullet specific"? For future reference, shouldnt a load for a TMJ be different for a FMJ? Not listed in my manuals. __________________ There's no such thing as a good gun. There's no such thing as a bad gun. A gun in the hands of a bad man is a very dangerous thing. A gun in the hands of a good person is no danger to anyone except the bad guys." -- Charlton Heston, 15 Sep 1997

December 1, 2008, 10:39 PM	#3
Vstrom Member Join Date: October 18, 2007 Location: Washington state Posts: 78	If you reload to the same oal as factory overall lengths you will be just fine providing the loads work properly in your magazine. I use to shoot competition bench rest and we were always messing with lengths. Most reloading manuals are close but as you see by looking between manuals none are exact and that leeway in lengths, powder types ,charge loads ect.ect. are what makes reloading fun. What I would suggest would be to load a bullet in a shell with out powder and primer and keep lowering the bullet into the shell until its at the longest listed length and see if that oal cycles in your gun if not go shorter but not any shorter than the shortest length listed in any of the manuals, or just go to factory length all should shoot fine and amazingly enough some lengths will be more accurate than others!!HMMM welcome to the mysterious world of reloading! Have fun.

December 1, 2008, 10:40 PM	#4
Khaot1c Member Join Date: March 14, 2008 Location: Florida Panhandle Posts: 54	I'm a new guy to reloading too. kraigwy pretty much hit it on the head. There are so many variables to what you would think is a pretty consistant process. But real life has a way of playing cruel tricks, and reloading is one of those things. I kinda run into the same issue that you're talking about - picking a bullet that doens't have any clear cut load data. And then when you do find data, it's going to suggest a powder that (A) you dont' want to use or - (B) [as is the case with me] your local supplier doesn't carry the powder. Like VSTROM said - OAL is goig to vary. There are warnings about preassure that can be created from a high OAL. This normally occurs becuase you went to short on the OAL (i'm sure i'll get corrected if i'm wrong) But i think the closer the bullet is to the lands, the more accurate the load will be. But yes, not all guns will feed a long bullet. The COAL was implemented to stanardize the length for magazine capacity, feeding, etc. However, every machine in the world has a tolerance, you just need to find the one for your particular gun. In short, this forces you to acquire more data. I'm not really willing to jepordize safety for 'guessing' on a particular loadout. However, I also feel that a good collection of load-data paired with a little reading of the SAMMI spec for your caliber can lead you to educated decision. Case in point: For making plinking/target/range loads, I really like Rainier bullets for my 9mm and .40 However, finding load data was a bit of a trick. I joined a site called AmmoGuide.com which has a lot of user submitted loads, and a pretty active forum. In short, there are a lot of resouces to pool from to help make an educated decsion. Rainier bullets suggest using LEAD load data. However, most lead bullets are formed far different than TMJ or FMJ. So, the OAL has to be derived from knowing the SAMMI spec for the round and comparing the bullet to other manufacturers. But the #1 rule that can't be exmphasis enoguh is ALWAYS start with the START LOAD data. Safety first - it would be very unwise to jump straight to the maximum load. and yes, the maximum load is going to vary from book to book. However, the starting loads should all be pretty close. I'm a guy that likes to tinker, seems i always want to improve things. I'm not a great marksman, but the only way to get better is to practice. etc. Can't get reliable practice without consistant loads - so consistancy is key. And, when working up loads - make sure you take good notes. If you load for more than one caliber, you'll probably have more than one powder. It's gonna happen..... Me, I like using Tightgroup in my 9mm and AA#7 in my .40 However, I am finding a special place for Power Pistol in my .40 as well.