Rifle cartridge reloading?

ragwd · October 13, 2009, 01:05 PM

Ok with the help of alot of reading here and several load books, I have been reloading 45 acp, 9mm, 380 pistol cartridges for about 9 months. Quality control are the key words on my bench. but rifle cartridges are quite different so I am back with more questions. I have a rcbs rock chucker supreme, rcbs competition full length two die set, once fired Winchester and lake city cartridges, hodgdon h335 powder, magtec small rifle primers, 55 grs fmj bullets. Things I am missing case trimmer, primer pocket prep tools, flash hole tool, and a chamber gauge and some guidance on this “full length sizing” thing and this idea of gauges. When reloading my pistol cartridges I have a pistol barrel and I check to make sure it sits right and is the right height, but this rifle thing gets a bit cloudy to me, how deep the bullet sits and the relationship of that and where the rifling starts and how exactly to check that. So I am asking, am I missing anything else, which and where should I get what I am missing and maybe some clarity in fl sizing and gauges. Thanks ahead of time and for reading my lengthy thread.

crimsondave · October 13, 2009, 02:32 PM

I am assuming you are reloading .223 ammo from brand of brass and bullet size, correct? Are you loading for a bolt action or AR-15 (or some other auto loader?)

Dr. Strangelove · October 13, 2009, 02:54 PM

Sounds like you're loading for an AR in .223?

Don't worry about flash hole tools and primer pocket cleaners. Read your press and die instructions for proper setup for full length sizing, but most screw in resizing die until it contacts shellholder at full stroke with tiny bit of cam over. Do check your instructions.

The operation identical to pistol reloading with the deletion of the flaring step. Use lots of lube near the base of the case and in the neck on .223, it can be a real bugger-bear to size. Don't overthink this, think of it as a long pistol case with a skinny neck.

For cartridge overall length, consult your load manual and use an electronic or dial caliper.

Good luck!

ragwd · October 14, 2009, 12:21 AM

Yes, I am loading for a ar and my brass is once fired from same ar. My ar's are 223/5.56 but I have bought bullets labeled 223. I intend to load as 223. Are the cartridges for 5.56 different from 223, can a 5.56 be loaded with a 223? Are they different bullets, cartridges, grains of powder? I will read my instructions and my manuals again on this but was just asking to get some opinions from this site as it has always been helpful in the past. Thanks

James A. Mullins · October 14, 2009, 05:21 AM

If they are marked .223 they are all the same. As for loading length you haftto do a little work It takes a little time but is well worth it in down range peformance. Resize your case with _NO_ primer. Lightly push the bullet you are going to use in the case. Insurt into chamber and clo0se bolt. Ejuct case nd measure length. Start by pushinf bullet into case .015, the check to see if the round will feed and chamber. This takes some time. When you find the length that will do both you've found the correct length.
Good luck and good shooting.James A.

rjrivero · October 14, 2009, 06:01 AM

Lake City generally has crimped primers. You're going to want to swage primer pockets in order to seat the primers without deformation. If the bullets you're using have a cannelure, then you can just seat the bullet to the midpoint of the cannelure.

wncchester · October 14, 2009, 07:34 AM

Rag, your questions are understandable but together they are sort of overwelming, it would take writing a small book to answer them all. That's already been done, lots of really good books out there.

If you limit yourself to ONE question at a time you would bemore likely get close to what you seek.

ragwd · October 14, 2009, 10:42 AM

Thanks for all the answers guys, I find this question and answer forum very, very helpful. Somehow easier to understand than just reading my instructions and loading manuals. Mullins I find your answer to establishing over all length as a point to start with, thanks. rjrivero, I have read that lake city does crimp the primer holes, can you suggest a particular brand or place to get the primer pocket swag? I do visit the local gun shows but they are limited on those types of tools. I have mostly RCBS, will they do? My bullets are fmj 55 grains with a cannelure. I will use those untill I get better at this, I have read that the non-cannelure are more accurate,Thanks. wncchester, Yes I do understand that I am asking a lot. And I do have Speers reload manual #14 and Horandy reload manual # 7 , also I have the instructions from rcbs loading dies box. I have found that rcbs have a nice video section. I find that you guys seem to cut through the " manual speak" and talk in a way I understand. But I will take your suggestion and break them down to different threads, thank you.

jepp2 · October 15, 2009, 08:12 PM

Max OAL for AR-15's is 2.260" to insure they work in the magazine. That OAL has always kept the bullets off the lands for me.

I use the RCBS primer swage tool with great results, but most have problems adjusting it and bend the rod. It costs about $30, the Dillon swage runs almost $100. Some people use a drill bit to cut crimp out. I just like the finished pocket the RCBS tool produces.

Getting a cartridge gauge to check for proper resizing is VERY helpful in making sure you are getting the shoulder set back correctly to allow proper chambering.

Everyone has their favorite resizing lube. I use synthetic motor oil (put some on the blue paper shop towels from Walmart). It takes very little, and is easy to use. I can lube and resize 750 per hour on a Rockchucker single stage press. Too much lube will give you dents in the case neck.

swamprat · October 15, 2009, 08:47 PM

I have used STP as a resizing lube for many,many years without a single problem. One small helpful trick I have found, is to put lube a little heavy on one corner of your lube pad and then press the mouth of your case down slightly on this spot before you resize. It will leave a slight bit of lube very shallow in the mouth of the case and makes the stroke a lot smoother.

rjrivero · October 15, 2009, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ragwd

rjrivero, I have read that lake city does crimp the primer holes, can you suggest a particular brand or place to get the primer pocket swag?

That depends on how many you're loading at a time. If you're just loading some 50-100 at a time, then get a hand tool. They're cheap and do a fine job. If you're planning on loading a 5 gallon bucket full at a time, then get yourself a swager. I use a Dillon swager, because I like the blue kool-aid.

medalguy · October 15, 2009, 09:20 PM

+1 on the Dillon swager. I load a lot of military and couldn't do it without the Dillon swager. I can swage about 1,000 cases an hour with that piece of equipment. It has tools included for small and large primer pockets. Perfect swaging every single time. Expensive (sort of) but worth every penny in my book.

ragwd · October 16, 2009, 12:16 AM

I plan on loading 50 to 100 rounds at a time. Maybe sometime in the future I will do more but for now I am trying to tweak my processes and I take a small amount to the range and see what a difference if any my tweak has done. Thats what Ive done so far with my pistol and plan on the same with my rifle loads. Once I have developed a sweetheart load I may be tempted to do more but not till then. Ok, a swag is a must for lake city brass or any military. But do you do any pocket prep for non crimped such as winchester. Gee the stp motor oil sounds like a savings, is there anything special you do to clean after?? Dillon looks like a nice chamber gauge, I may go with that. Forster looks like a nice case trimmer, any feed back on those. Thanks again for taking the time to read and reply.

rjrivero · October 16, 2009, 01:07 AM

For 50-100 at a time, you could use a hand tool like this one: Link here.

For trimming, I started with an RCBS Pro Trimmer. I took off the handle and just chucked it up to a drill. Works just fine for modest numbers. (On sale now at Midway.) Non crimped primer pockets don't NEED any swaging, but the extreme accuracy folks will shape the primer pockets, debur the primer flash hole, and clean all carbon out of the primer pocket.

Swaged primer pockets need attention. The others usually do not, in my experience.

Personally, I size the case, de-prime the case, trim the case, load the case, and go shoot it.

ragwd · October 16, 2009, 10:36 AM

rjrivero, thanks for the link looks like I will go that way. I started cleaning primer pockets who pistol loads but stopped seemed like a waste of time. It made no discernible difference in my accuracy and the primers still seated well. I mean I look to see if there is alot and clean if there was but not every case. the rcbs trimmer looks like a stronger base than the dillon.

October 14, 2009, 05:21 AM	#5
James A. Mullins Senior Member Join Date: October 10, 2006 Location: Vancouver Washington Posts: 124	Loading .223 bullets If they are marked .223 they are all the same. As for loading length you haftto do a little work It takes a little time but is well worth it in down range peformance. Resize your case with _NO_ primer. Lightly push the bullet you are going to use in the case. Insurt into chamber and clo0se bolt. Ejuct case nd measure length. Start by pushinf bullet into case .015, the check to see if the round will feed and chamber. This takes some time. When you find the length that will do both you've found the correct length. Good luck and good shooting.James A.

October 16, 2009, 12:16 AM	#13
ragwd Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2006 Posts: 925	I plan on loading 50 to 100 rounds at a time. Maybe sometime in the future I will do more but for now I am trying to tweak my processes and I take a small amount to the range and see what a difference if any my tweak has done. Thats what Ive done so far with my pistol and plan on the same with my rifle loads. Once I have developed a sweetheart load I may be tempted to do more but not till then. Ok, a swag is a must for lake city brass or any military. But do you do any pocket prep for non crimped such as winchester. Gee the stp motor oil sounds like a savings, is there anything special you do to clean after?? Dillon looks like a nice chamber gauge, I may go with that. Forster looks like a nice case trimmer, any feed back on those. Thanks again for taking the time to read and reply. Last edited by ragwd; October 16, 2009 at 01:03 AM.

October 13, 2009, 01:05 PM	#1
ragwd Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2006 Posts: 925	Rifle cartridge reloading? Ok with the help of alot of reading here and several load books, I have been reloading 45 acp, 9mm, 380 pistol cartridges for about 9 months. Quality control are the key words on my bench. but rifle cartridges are quite different so I am back with more questions. I have a rcbs rock chucker supreme, rcbs competition full length two die set, once fired Winchester and lake city cartridges, hodgdon h335 powder, magtec small rifle primers, 55 grs fmj bullets. Things I am missing case trimmer, primer pocket prep tools, flash hole tool, and a chamber gauge and some guidance on this “full length sizing” thing and this idea of gauges. When reloading my pistol cartridges I have a pistol barrel and I check to make sure it sits right and is the right height, but this rifle thing gets a bit cloudy to me, how deep the bullet sits and the relationship of that and where the rifling starts and how exactly to check that. So I am asking, am I missing anything else, which and where should I get what I am missing and maybe some clarity in fl sizing and gauges. Thanks ahead of time and for reading my lengthy thread.

October 13, 2009, 02:32 PM	#2
crimsondave Senior Member Join Date: September 30, 2009 Location: North Augusta, SC Posts: 490	I am assuming you are reloading .223 ammo from brand of brass and bullet size, correct? Are you loading for a bolt action or AR-15 (or some other auto loader?)

October 13, 2009, 02:54 PM	#3
Dr. Strangelove Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2008 Location: Athens, GA Posts: 1,436	Sounds like you're loading for an AR in .223? Don't worry about flash hole tools and primer pocket cleaners. Read your press and die instructions for proper setup for full length sizing, but most screw in resizing die until it contacts shellholder at full stroke with tiny bit of cam over. Do check your instructions. The operation identical to pistol reloading with the deletion of the flaring step. Use lots of lube near the base of the case and in the neck on .223, it can be a real bugger-bear to size. Don't overthink this, think of it as a long pistol case with a skinny neck. For cartridge overall length, consult your load manual and use an electronic or dial caliper. Good luck!

October 14, 2009, 12:21 AM	#4
ragwd Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2006 Posts: 925	Yes, I am loading for a ar and my brass is once fired from same ar. My ar's are 223/5.56 but I have bought bullets labeled 223. I intend to load as 223. Are the cartridges for 5.56 different from 223, can a 5.56 be loaded with a 223? Are they different bullets, cartridges, grains of powder? I will read my instructions and my manuals again on this but was just asking to get some opinions from this site as it has always been helpful in the past. Thanks

October 14, 2009, 06:01 AM	#6
rjrivero Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2008 Location: NW Ohio Posts: 1,399	Lake City generally has crimped primers. You're going to want to swage primer pockets in order to seat the primers without deformation. If the bullets you're using have a cannelure, then you can just seat the bullet to the midpoint of the cannelure.

October 14, 2009, 07:34 AM	#7
wncchester Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2002 Posts: 2,832	Rag, your questions are understandable but together they are sort of overwelming, it would take writing a small book to answer them all. That's already been done, lots of really good books out there. If you limit yourself to ONE question at a time you would bemore likely get close to what you seek.

October 14, 2009, 10:42 AM	#8
ragwd Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2006 Posts: 925	Thanks for all the answers guys, I find this question and answer forum very, very helpful. Somehow easier to understand than just reading my instructions and loading manuals. Mullins I find your answer to establishing over all length as a point to start with, thanks. rjrivero, I have read that lake city does crimp the primer holes, can you suggest a particular brand or place to get the primer pocket swag? I do visit the local gun shows but they are limited on those types of tools. I have mostly RCBS, will they do? My bullets are fmj 55 grains with a cannelure. I will use those untill I get better at this, I have read that the non-cannelure are more accurate,Thanks. wncchester, Yes I do understand that I am asking a lot. And I do have Speers reload manual #14 and Horandy reload manual # 7 , also I have the instructions from rcbs loading dies box. I have found that rcbs have a nice video section. I find that you guys seem to cut through the " manual speak" and talk in a way I understand. But I will take your suggestion and break them down to different threads, thank you.

October 15, 2009, 08:12 PM	#9
jepp2 Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2008 Location: Loveland, CO Posts: 1,476	Max OAL for AR-15's is 2.260" to insure they work in the magazine. That OAL has always kept the bullets off the lands for me. I use the RCBS primer swage tool with great results, but most have problems adjusting it and bend the rod. It costs about $30, the Dillon swage runs almost $100. Some people use a drill bit to cut crimp out. I just like the finished pocket the RCBS tool produces. Getting a cartridge gauge to check for proper resizing is VERY helpful in making sure you are getting the shoulder set back correctly to allow proper chambering. Everyone has their favorite resizing lube. I use synthetic motor oil (put some on the blue paper shop towels from Walmart). It takes very little, and is easy to use. I can lube and resize 750 per hour on a Rockchucker single stage press. Too much lube will give you dents in the case neck.

October 15, 2009, 08:47 PM	#10
swamprat Member Join Date: September 24, 2009 Location: mississippi Posts: 23	I have used STP as a resizing lube for many,many years without a single problem. One small helpful trick I have found, is to put lube a little heavy on one corner of your lube pad and then press the mouth of your case down slightly on this spot before you resize. It will leave a slight bit of lube very shallow in the mouth of the case and makes the stroke a lot smoother.

October 15, 2009, 09:20 PM	#12
medalguy Senior Member Join Date: August 31, 2009 Location: New Mexico Posts: 1,033	+1 on the Dillon swager. I load a lot of military and couldn't do it without the Dillon swager. I can swage about 1,000 cases an hour with that piece of equipment. It has tools included for small and large primer pockets. Perfect swaging every single time. Expensive (sort of) but worth every penny in my book.

October 16, 2009, 01:07 AM	#14
rjrivero Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2008 Location: NW Ohio Posts: 1,399	For 50-100 at a time, you could use a hand tool like this one: Link here. For trimming, I started with an RCBS Pro Trimmer. I took off the handle and just chucked it up to a drill. Works just fine for modest numbers. (On sale now at Midway.) Non crimped primer pockets don't NEED any swaging, but the extreme accuracy folks will shape the primer pockets, debur the primer flash hole, and clean all carbon out of the primer pocket. Swaged primer pockets need attention. The others usually do not, in my experience. Personally, I size the case, de-prime the case, trim the case, load the case, and go shoot it.

October 16, 2009, 10:36 AM	#15
ragwd Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2006 Posts: 925	rjrivero, thanks for the link looks like I will go that way. I started cleaning primer pockets who pistol loads but stopped seemed like a waste of time. It made no discernible difference in my accuracy and the primers still seated well. I mean I look to see if there is alot and clean if there was but not every case. the rcbs trimmer looks like a stronger base than the dillon.