20ga v 12ga

[ammo.crafter]

Assuming all things being equal, what is the realistic effectiveness between a 20 and a 12; same shot size, weight, velocity, barrel length, choke, etc?

[oneounceload]

Your typical 12 gauge is usually about a pound heavier. Your "standard" loads are usually a little heavier as well - 20 7/8 oz, vs. a 1 or 1-1/8 oz 12. Until you get into the more powerful hunting loads, IMO, there isn't much difference - at least for targets with target loads

[olddrum1]

Just wondering what you mean by effectiveness?

[ammo.crafter]

oldrum1

For example, if I'm pheasant hunting with a 20ga with 1oz loads or a 12ga with 1oz loads is there any difference in the two as regards power range knockdown, etc.

[Doyle]

For example, if I'm pheasant hunting with a 20ga with 1oz loads or a 12ga with 1oz loads is there any difference in the two as regards power range knockdown, etc.

In this case, no practical difference. HOWEVER, typical "light" hunting loads for a 12ga are 1 1/8 oz loads. Pheasants are frequently hunted with even heaver loads - typcial being 1 1/4 oz loads or even heavier. That is the advantage a 12ga will give you over a 20ga - more options to use heavier loads without resorting to the "magnum" shells.

[Rampant_Colt]

There are 3" 20 gauge 1-1/4 field loads available. Given the same weight, they're equal to 12 gauge

I still sometimes get a hankerin' to shoot my 20ga 870, and keep it for back-up when in the field

[BigJimP]

It's a common misconception - that a 12ga hits harder than a 20ga.

If you shoot a 1oz load at 1200 fps out of a 12ga and a 20ga - the number of pellets and the impact downrange is identical. A 12ga does not hit harder - so it is not more effective.

These days with so many shells out there / so many different shells you can reload - I may only take 1 gun on a trip to do some field shooting for quail or doves as well as shoot some trap or sporting clays - especially in a 12ga - just by changing my shells. You can do the same thing with a 20ga - make it behave balistically like a 12ga or drop it down to a 28ga...

[ammo.crafter]

THX Big Jim

[xm21]

BigJimP,would the 12 load tend to pattern better,and have more pellets hit the target?I have no experience with the 3'' 20 but have read that longer and narrower shot columns generally don't pattern as well as a more square load like a 12.I have patterned my gun and noticed that even though some of the 3'' 12 ga shells have more shot in them the 2 3/4 some 2 3/4 shells put as many pellets in the turkeys head on the target.Thanks

[BigJimP]

That's a good question - and honestly the more I read about which loads pattern the best the more confused I get ....

I think a lot of the better patterning shells - where you get less "flyers" or deformed pellets out of the pattern are affected by the quality or hardness of the shot. In general, if you're buying shells - the higher quality shells - like Remington STS or Winchester AA's - pattern a lot better than the cheaper shells like Estate or even Remington Gun Club. If you're reloading - the number of times you load a hull, quality of crimp, type of wad you use ... all make a difference.

I also think every gun is a little different - and every screw in choke is a little different. I've even seen some articles lately where different screw in chokes caused the point of impact to move up or down and right or left.

Whether its a 2 3/4" shell or a 3" shell - in a 12ga or a 20ga - if its a 1 oz load of 6's - it will have the same number of pellets. All I can say is you're really going to have to pattern the shells you want to use in your gun, with the choke you intend to hunt with to see what you get. When I pattern a gun - I put 3 or 4 shots out of one barrel - with one choke for a given shell and kind of average the results. But if I get a lot of variance - I shoot 3 or 4 more shells - and if it still varies a lot - then I change shells and see what I get. There just seems to be guns that like certain loads - and I do the same for my target loads as well. In Target loads - I do think a 1oz 12ga load patterns a little better than a 1 1/8 oz load at the same speed say 1200 to 1225 fps. When I've experimented with faster shells - up to 1300 fps - with 1 1/8 oz loads, I get more flyers. A 1oz load at 1300 fps - I get less flyers. I usually pattern my guns with a Full, Mod and Skeet Choke - and then I put the chokes in compartmentalized tackle boxes - and use a marker to mark on the underside of the box lid - saying which chokes went in which guns ( but my problem is I have several Brownings in 12ga - and I want to keep track of my best Mod choke for Trap, best IM and best Full ( and if I shot them in my BT-100 ) they may peform real well - but they stunk in one of my XT's .....so I try and keep track of them by gun. But sometimes I think I make too much of this and drive myself crazy. You have to know when enough info - is enough - and not drive yourself nuts.

[oneounceload]

first - don't compare a 1oz 20 to a 1oz 12....compare a 7/8oz. 20 to a 1oz. or 1-1/8 oz 12....

I have found through my own personal experiences, (not some super duty testing now), that lower and slower means better patterns, less recoil, able to shoot more, and later in the day, break more targets..and that holds true with my 7-1/2# 20 or my 8-1/2# 12....FWIW, YMMV

[BigJimP]

Maybe I misunderstood his question OneOunce / or your point ...... but wasn't he trying to compare the same size load ( like a 1oz load in 20 vs 12 ga ) ?

I don't shoot a lot of 1 oz loads in 20ga - but there are a lot of good reload recipe's for 2 3/4" Reminton STS hulls for 1oz loads using Hodgdon Longshot at about 1220 fps ( so its basically the same primary load I shoot in a 12ga 1 oz at about 1225 fps using a different powder, etc ). I think what you say is true - that slower loads tend to pattern better than hot loads because they give you less flyers.

But I find the 1oz 20ga load and the 1oz 12ga load ( usually 8's for me ) patterns almost identically for me in both guns. I've got my 20ga weighted so it is almost identical to my 12ga ( even though the receiver is a little smaller ) so recoil isn't the issue in my example ( both of my guns are Browning XS Skeet models, 30" barrels).

[oneounceload]

agree Big Jim, he was, BUT a "standard" 20 load is 7/8, a "standard" 12 is either 1 or 1-1/8.....IMO, you are better off comparing what the industry sees as standard when comparing two different gauges...

1/2 oz. in .410 vs. 3/4 in 28 vs. 7/8 in 20 vs 15/16 in 16 and 1 or 1-1/8 in 12.

With the bore diameter differences being what they are, it wouldn't be right to compare equal size loads in gauges that are not the same bore, but rather to compare, for lack of a better term, "bore-size equivalents"...Am I making any sense?? I know what I want to say, not sure if it coming across right though....

[BigJimP]

now you're just making me laugh ....... but I get it .....

It's why our wives think we take this crap too serious ....( and they're probably right ).

[oneounceload]

took my 20 and my 28 out today....my 20 O/U was breaking them decently on the 5-stand......my 28, with it's 3/4oz of 8-1/2's out of my 1100, was smoking them.......if I tried to shoot 7/8 in my 28, it would have been a joke....guess THAT's what I was trying to say....

glad I made SOMEONE laugh today...and Big Jim, if you like forums about shotguns that aren't all tricked out for HD, try upland journal.com and shotgunworld.com....both more geared to hunters and clay shooters

[BigJimP]

Thanks

I'm into handguns too - and I'm an amateur gunsmith / so I spend a little time here and on the 1911 handguns and some of the revolver forums. I collect 1911's and S&W Revolvers ( the older ones model 27, 29 etc ) as well as shotguns - but I'm more of a shooter than a collector - and not a serious "registered target" shooter.

Mostly I hang out here as a diversion when I feel like a break in my day ( but I run my own business, so noone is getting short changed here ) ....

I think a lot of the forums are the same stuff / same questions - so mostly I just hang out here. I enjoy it and I think its important we try and save some guys some money or aggravation by not making the same mistakes I did before I really understood shotguns. I don't respond much to tactical questions - but I still think its interesting to see what people are asking or discussing. The only tactical weapon I have is a Benelli M-4 and its a nice gun / but I don't shoot it much / I'm mostly a Skeet and Sporting Clays shooter these days - and 3 or 4 hunting trips a year ( I get bored shooting Trap )...

Bottom line, if it goes bang ....I like it .

[oneounceload]

doubleguns.com is for the English collectors, etc...upland is for bird hunters...SGW has categories....general, clays, SC, trap, etc.......good group of folks...

for pistols, blacks, etc.... try THR:
http://www.thehighroad.org/search.php?searchid=4078095

have fun and be safe!

Never worry about your score, only worry if you're not having fun, then it's time to take up golf, needlepoint, or shuffleboard!

[nutty ned]

There are 3" 20 gauge 1-1/4 field loads available. Given the same weight, they're equal to 12 gauge

Maybe so but the recoil is off the page.

[FL-Flinter]

Jim,

The amount of shot you launch with each shot means nothing, all that counts is the number of pellets that connect with the target, the rest of it is waste.

Individual pellet weight & diameter combined with velocity is what determines how well each pellet will contribute to the terminal results on game. The pattern control is what will determine how many pellets will reliably connect with the intended target on a regular basis. A number 5 pellet launched at 1300fps will have the same amount of killing power at 40 yards no matter if it was thrown with a 10ga or a 32ga.

Excessive payload weights for a given bore diameter will not perform in wing shooting as well as a squared or lesser weight payload. The more shot weight you attempt to launch, the lower the velocity will become because you have to maintain the load within acceptable pressure limits. Heavy loads usually do not perform as well at longer ranges than do squared or light loads. The heavier the payload, the longer the shot string becomes and the less reliable the pattern becomes. When you're wing shooting, the only pellets that will connect with the bird are those that try to occupy the same space at the same time - all the pellets leading or lagging in a shot string 18+ feet long mean absolutely nothing. Lighter payloads are far more consistent and reliable but also require greater skill on the part of the shooter - if you can do your job, they'll do theirs.