Resizing .223 brass

[AnasaziDan]

I am preparing for the first time to reload .223 brass with my Lee Pro 1000. I chose to prepare my once fired brass and then prime using the Lee Auto Prime XR. My dilemma is that my "Full Length Sizer" has a decapper. The die description says that you may reset the decapper by loosening the decapper clamp and position the decapper flush with clamp end and re tighten with the added caution that "Considerable torque may be necessary."

My initial thought is to remove the decapper so that I may perform only full length sizing; however, I am not certain if this is possible. I have searched for a full length sizer without a decapper without success. Hope someone can provide some ideas as to how I should proceed. Thanks,

[higgite]

Deleted........ I totally misunderstood OP's dilemma. The jury shall disregard this witness' testimony.

[chris in va]

Hate to tell you this, but the Auto Prime XR I picked up recently is worse than the Ram Prime that came with my kit. Not enough 'feel', and sometimes the primer flips upside down or goes in at a weird angle. You also need to be sure those military crimps are chamfered out, otherwise forget trying to prime those suckers.

I have to ask though, are you trying to resize the brass *after* priming? Doesn't work that way.

Clean brass

Decap/size

Trim

Chamfer military crimp (if needed)

Prime

[Ike666]

I hate to say this, but it sounds like you got things out of sequence. Did you prime the brass before sizing? If so, you may have a bit of a problem. It may be possible to remove just the decapper pin from the collet, but I'm not sure. You definitely need the expander ball to re-size the neck though.

[thump_rrr]

If you primed your brass before sizing you can move the decapper and expander ball back far enough so that it doesn't decap yet will size he neck properly.

As others have mentioned it isn't standard operating procedure bu it will work.

I produce my 223 in 2 steps.

First step is to size, deprime and trim using a Dillon RT 1200 rotary trimmer mounted on my press.

I then throw the brass back in my tumbler for an additional 15 min. to remove the brass shavings and case lube.

On the second go around I prime, charge and seat the bullet.

This is great for bulk reloading of .223.

[steve4102]

I chose to prepare my once fired brass and then prime using the Lee Auto Prime XR.

What do you mean by "prepare"?

In order.

1) Clean fired brass.
2) lube brass
3) FL size and de-prime brass
4) Remove lube
5) Trim chamfer de-burr if required

Now the brass is "Prepared" and ready to prime and load.

[AnasaziDan]

Thanks for all the guidance.

Obviously, I am a beginner. I used a Lee Loadmaster to reload a few hundred round of .45 ACP military brass as my first venture. The procedures I used for .45 ACP appear to not be useful for loading rifle brass. [I do now understand that the Loadmaster is more appropriate for large rifle reloading and the Pro 1000 for pistol reloading.] However, I am at the stage of just learning about reloading and the equipment.

From a reloading video the "Brass Processing Checklist" offered said:

Clean Brass
Deprime
Resize
Remove Resizing Lube
Swage Primer Pocket
Trim To Length
Chamfer Neck
Prime

For the .223 brass I have cleaned the brass. Then, I've deprimed with a "Lee Reloader Press". The brass is all Federal (non-military) and my micrometer indicates that my Trim Length is 44.40 mm that is less than the prescribed Maximum Trim Length of 44.70 mm. Examining the brass led me to believe that neither chamfer, nor de-burr appear to be necessary. Next, because I had a good experience priming the .45 ACP with the Lee Auto Prime XR, I charged ahead and primed the brass. As chris in va says Priming .223 with the Lee Auto Prime XR was disappointing for me. The number 4 Auto Prime XR shell holder appears to have too much play. By holding the cartridge in place while seating the primer, I did succeed in accomplishing the priming.

My big question now is how do I either remove those primers or otherwise deal with this situation? Using the "Full Length Sizer" to push those new primers out seems unwise and very dangerous for the 120 cases with the primers installed. thump_rrr's idea to "If you primed your brass before sizing you can move the decapper and expander ball back far enough so that it doesn't decap yet will size he neck properly." is appealing to me, and I believe that I can use fired rounds with used primers intact to adjust the decapper to not hit the primer.

I hope that you will continue to provide your experience, knowledge, skills, wisdom and abilities regarding how I can deal with this situation.

Thanks again

[TATER]

I think you can buy just the single LEE resizing die at Midway USA. Grind off only the pin.
The expanding portion of the rod has to pass threw the neck for proper case size. (Grind Just the pin)

[Clark]

From my point of view, resizing with a standard full length die with an expander ball on the decapping stem, has ruined the brass and it can only be fixed by firing it again.
I do not have time to re shoot 223 brass so..
Expander ball on resizing step -> throw the brass away, cause the neck is bent.

Instead I decap the spent primer with a decapping die or a Lee Collet die.

[studman5578]

Assuming i understand your issue (that you want to resize an already primed case) here's my solution: if youve got a lee full length sizing dye, the center guide rod should have a removable pin at the end. Simply take a pair of vice grips and pull it out. It migh require a bit of rotating to get it loosened, but it will go. I know this because I replaced the pin (which i bent) on my 223 dye. Also, When you're sizing, use hornady one-shot case sizing wax. It is unmatched IMHO. Put the lube just south of the shoulder on the main case, that's where its most needed. I've ruined many many 223 rem cases trying to figure out what I just told you. Oh and you should consider getting a Wilson case Gauge if you're using your 223 rem for an AR, or similar semi auto, it will help tremendously. With it you can figure out if you're properly headspaced and properly trimmed.

[Unclenick]

If you have Lee dies, the pin is not removable. I will give you a workaround, though.

1. Loosen the collet lock nut on top of the sizing die that holds the decapper/expander in. Slip the decapper/expander out completely.
2. Lube the cases and size. Keep lube off the primers.
3. Reassemble the decapper in the die.
4. Use a pipe cleaner or a cotton swab to run just a little bit of Lee Case Lube inside each case mouth.
5. Let it dry completely.
6. Put each case in the shell holder and run the ram up just far enough to force the case neck over the expander, but not far enough for the decapping pin to reach your primer.
7. Withdraw case
8. Charge
9. Seat

For the future:

1. Clean.
2. Resize and deprime.
3. Clean lube off.
4. Clean primer pocket if you're going to.
5. Trim.
6. Chamfer and deburr (I know it looks like you don't need to, but it is harder to seat a bullet straight with no chamfer; also copper will often be scraped off the bullet by the sharp edge of the brass if you don't. At the very least, re-tumble (if you have a tumbler) for awhile to dull the edges of the case mouth).
7. Prime
8. Charge
9. Seat

[TATER]

Unclenick,
Wham, Hit my self Right in the Head.... I would have thought of that eventually…..(Big Grin)

[AnasaziDan]

All of this discussion caused me to think through in detail my steps I listed above. I didn't have any .223 bullets so I turned my efforts to the .45 ACP and my memory about how I deprimed my .223s was hazy. My comment:

Then, I've deprimed with a "Lee Reloader Press".

I asked myself how would I have done that? The only way possible would be that I used the only depriming tool I had, that is, a Lee "Full Length Sizer". Wow, therefore I have resized the brass while I deprimed. [I did a no-no when doing this because I failed to use Resizing Lube, but I must have gotten lucky and not gotten brass stuck in the resizer.]

All the discussions have been invaluable to me such as case lubing, case cages, and the need to chamfer even thought it appears like it isn't necessary, re-tumble, etc. Also, in rooting about the forum I found another discussion that is getting me orientated: http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...t=223+resizing

Clark's comment

"resizing with a standard full length die with an expander ball on the decapping stem, has ruined the brass and it can only be fixed by firing it again.
I do not have time to re shoot 223 brass so..
Expander ball on resizing step -> throw the brass away, cause the neck is bent.

Instead I decap the spent primer with a decapping die or a Lee Collet die." has me a bit puzzled."

I did disassemble my Lee "Full Length Sizer" and looking at the decapping pin I see no evidence of an "expander ball" per se. The shaft does thicken a bit at the upper end. Although I've searched I have not seen a vanilla decapping die without the resizing feature. Reading about the Lee 223 Collet Die it seems that this die sizes just the neck and needs no lubrication, but I believe I've read somewhere that full length sizing is a must for autoloaders??? Therefore, I guess that the collet die would have to be followed by a full length sizer die if the rounds are to be used in the AR15?

Thanks

[medalguy]

At this point I would seriously suggest you acquire a copy of The ABC's of Reloading, available from Amazon and other booksellers. It walks you through the process of reloading from start to finish, explains every step and why it's done, and explains how to salvage lots of screw-ups. This is a book every handloader should have, regardless of how long you've been reloading.

[thump_rrr]

I seriously doubt that you could have full length sized and deprimed 120 .223 cases without getting one stuck in the die without any lubricant.

Could you have been using a Lee Universal Decapping Die?

[studman5578]

I agree with previous post. Either you're not sizing your cases at all, or you're not sizing them all the way. Again, I reccomend the case gauge. I can't get 2 unlubed cases thru the dye without getting one stuck.

[Unclenick]

AnasaziDan,

What you are looking for is the Lee Universal Decapping Die. It has no sizing function. I use mine all the time to decap before cleaning.

The Lee FL die's decapper thickens, as you observed, and that is the expander. Other common brands (RCBS, Redding, Lyman) have removable expanders and replaceable decapping pins, but Lee depends on better heat treating and steel selection to keep his decapping pins from bending or snapping off, as the others do periodically. Lee uses the longer thick shape in to help limit off-axis neck pulling. If find they do better if polished at the corners of the expansion.

[AnasaziDan]

Medalguy, I just looked at a few of the pages from The ABC's of Reloading and ordered it. I believe that publication will help me a great deal.

thump_rrr

Could you have been using a Lee Universal Decapping Die?

Yes!
studman5578 I am researching about a case gauge and will definitely acquire one. If anyone has any suggestions regarding brands or sources, please reply.

Unclenick Several months ago when I realized that I needed a hobby and that my interest in shooting and reloading dates back to 1959 with intermittent use of various caliber Lee Loaders, the reloading bug bit me. I became immersed and now recall some advise such as your statement regarding the

Lee Universal Decapping Die. It has no sizing function. I use mine all the time to decap before cleaning.

I was led to believe that one must deprime prior to cleaning. Therefore, I did purchase and use a Lee Universal Decapping Die to deprime those .223 cases. Therefore, those in the thread have done excellent detective work. I do have unsized primed .223 cases and can follow advice earlier on how to work around my situation.

Again, you are the greatest and thanks.