School me on Trail Boss

[sawdustdad]

So I found some interesting stuff on the Hodgdon web site about using Trail Boss for reduced recoil rifle loads. The instructions are basically load the case to 60% capacity with Trail Boss.

What is it about Trail Boss that permits its use in rifle cartridges while other pistol powders should not be used in such an application? (Ref the recent "lucky to be alive" thread.")

[twobit]

I don't currently reload for rifle.... but I use it a lot in target loads for .38spl, .357magnum, and 45colt. I like it in those handgun loads. It is fluffy and fills those cases well. It also shoots fairly clean.

On their website they say NEVER compress it with the bullet base, but full cases up to the bullet base are fine for any caliber. As long as you never compress, it will not be an overload. They also mention that it is good for reduced loads for rifles. Again they stress NEVER COMPRESS. I believe the full case rule also applies to rifle loads but double check that.

It is rather rare on the shelves right now, just like Unique is rare. The places I buy powder at are still out of the popular powders and TrailBoss is one of the popular powders around here.

[rclark]

It's fast, light and fluffy... Good for case filling loads, so good for rifle plinking (and revolver plinking).

As for compression.... Well, as said above for absolute safey, no compression to stay within most calibers pressure limits as it is a fast burning powder. However, it can be compressed as noted by the Hornady manual .44Mag load. I tested up to 9.5g in .44 Mag with no problem. Liked the 8.0g load best for .44Mag under 240g SWC.

.44 Mag tests As you can see the compressed loads added little umph on the upper end and basically useless.

[jmorris]

It is a somewhat fast pistol powder that is very bulky. There is a school of thought that having a large case with a small amount of powder will allow a flame to start next to the primer, jump over the powder in the middle and start another flame on the bullet end.

The idea is that when the two flame fronts collide the pressure spike is huge. Not unlike engine detonation.

While I have experienced detonation in an engine I have never had the problem with reduced rifle loads. I would imagine most of the problems are over charged loads like a double or in the case of the "Lucky to be alive" thread where he thought he was using Varget and threw a full charge of Tite Group instead. Had he used 6 grains of Tightgroup instead of the 30 grains +\- that he did, it would not have blown his rifle to bits.

In any case the fact that reloading books have warned about it forever is why I don't post the pistol powder rifle load data I use except for the ones that use TB or rounds designed from the start to use pistol powders.

[reloader28]

I was going to try it once, but I dont use it strickly for the fact that it costs twice as much per pound as any other powder.

[Mike Irwin]

Trail Boss is fantastic for large-capacity low pressure cartridges like the .44 Special and .45 Colt.

I was using WW 231 to load my .44 Special and was getting huge variances in velocity due to inconsistent ignition of such a small amount of powder in such a large case.

Trail Boss solved that issue very handily.

[mxsailor803]

I love Trailboss for .44mag and cast loaded 30-30. I was doing the light 30-30 load for my little cousin thats 13. She can shoot it all day and not get a flinch. Its reasonably accurate for what it is. Not something I would use as a hunting load.

[condor bravo]

I use Trail Boss extensively for rifle loads only, not handguns. Calibers range from standard to belted mags including .458s. The low recoil makes the heavier calibers fun and pleasant to shoot. Loading instructions call for a starting load of 60 to 70% case capacity and then working up as desired to max, defined as to the base of the bullet when seated. Bullet weight seems to be of little consequence since a heavier bullet seated deeper just results in less powder space. I have always worked up to max loading with never any pressure signs. I also mostly use lead bullets, either moly coated or standard lubed. The only problem came with some .264s with red bullet lube that smoked heavily. Apparently tbe powder burns with a low enough flame temperature to prevent melting and smoking of most bullet lubes. And barrels do not heat up as much as normal. The main problem now is finding the powder

[Nick_C_S]

I load a lot of target 38 Special.

I've never given Trailboss a second thought. Even during this enduring shortage, I've seen it at my LGS and passed on it. I've never used any IMR product for that matter.

All this talk about it being fluffy and filling cavernous cases has piqued my interest.

[Mike Irwin]

"All this talk about it being fluffy and filling cavernous cases has piqued my interest."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNLJDR-XbVY


Anyway...

In .44 Special using WW 231 (my all-time favorite handgun powder hands down, no questions asked), the charge I needed to get to the traditional "factory" load velocity gave me maybe 15% load capacity.

Using Train Boss to get to the same load gives I'd say between 75-85% load capacity in the same case using the same bullet.

Even though Trail Boss grain size is huge by comparison, it meters flawlessly through my Lee measure, almost to the same degree of precision as 231. I never would have believed that just looking at the grain size, but it does it.

[Nick_C_S]

WW 231 (my all-time favorite handgun powder hands down, no questions asked)

Mine too. . . including the entire 0.8 remaining pounds I have of it. And I haven't seen it on an LGS shelf (or anywhere, for that matter) since November 2012.

Oh, and thanks for the informative u-Tube clip

[jmorris]

"All this talk about it being fluffy and filling cavernous cases has piqued my interest."

11 grains of it will fill a 308 case more than half full.

[sawdustdad]

I was going to try it once, but I dont use it strickly for the fact that it costs twice as much per pound as any other powder.

I just bought 8 bottles at $12.49 per 9 oz (that's $22.40 per lb). So it's not all that expensive. I've seem many rifle powders for over $25 and VV over $30/lb.

[Nick_C_S]

11 grains of it will fill a 308 case more than half full.

Wow that's impressive.

[Average Joe]

How does Trail Boss meter ? Is it like Unique a flake powder ?

[rclark]

It meters quite well in my hornady dispenser. I did have to use my large insert though. The flakes are thinner than Unique and break easy. Light and fluffy....

Close up of TB

[Mike Irwin]

As I noted in my previous post, it meters exceptionally well, especially given its large grain size.

It meters FAR better than Unique or most of the other Alliant flake-type powders.

For years I'd been pining for a powder that was like the old bulk replacement smokeless powders like King's, ones that could be loaded just like black powder, by volume rather than by strict weight.

While Trail Boss is not a bulk replacement powder, it's far, far closer than anything we've got today, and it serves many of the same purposes.

I know people who are using it in .45-70 and doing very well with it. The drawback, though, is that it's got a fairly high chamber pressure so you do need to be careful using it in older actions like Trapdoors, although it can be safely used in those guns.

[Nick_C_S]

Not to morph the subject, but it often seems that Unique is the "baseline" for crummy metering powders.

Unique is the worst metering powder I use (I only load for pistol). But that said - it's relative. Yeah, test throws will make my scale float about a little more than the other powders I use. But out of 100 throws, maybe - maybe - three of them will have a weight +/- >1/10th grain. It's just not much of an issue, I'd say. (My hopper is an RCBS Uniflow w/ the small cylinder.)

[Sevens]

IMR-800X does meter worse than Unique, IME.

Beware Trail Boss' horrendous stench, especially on an indoor range.

[reloader28]

Sawdustdad, wow, you got lucky.
At Cabelas it was about $22 per bottle. Good deal til I saw it was only 1/2lb.
Granted Cabelas is extremely overpriced, but maybe I should look again. Maybe it was mismarked.

[Mike Irwin]

I think the most I've paid for a bottle of Trail Boss (it's been a couple of years) is $11.

A couple I got on sale for about $9.

[sawdustdad]

IMR-800X does meter worse than Unique, IME.

I agree with this, for sure. I usually don't have any issues with Unique metering in my Square Deal. 800x is more of an issue. We'll see how TrailBoss works when it arrives

[Jim Watson]

Trail Boss is quite fast burning, on the chart I have, it falls between Green Dot and 452AA of commonly known powders.

Its .30 bulk density gives good case fill in its intended use of nitro for black revolver loads and it has been adapted to plinking and subsonic rifle loads.

It is not really well suited for period black powder rifles. The Hodgdon/IMR STARTING load for a standard 405 grain .45-70 is 12 grains TB for only 971 fps at 24500 CUP. That is more than most sources think you should put in a Trapdoor Springfield.

[condor bravo]

Sawdustdad:
Would you mind sharing your sourse for the Trail Boss powder? It sounds like you ordered it rather than from the LGS.
Thanks

[Nick_C_S]

IMR-800X does meter worse than Unique, IME.

I have no doubt. The only reason I didn't mention it among my poor metering powders is because I don't use it.