Split Case. Need some QuickLoad help.

Nick_C_S · February 17, 2014, 03:11 PM

I went shooting yesterday and one round caused this split case. Now most likely, it's nothing more than a flawed case. But I wouldn't mind running the numbers. Here's the info:

It's a Winchester case - 1.142". Headstamp: "Winchester 38 SPL." I either bought it new late in 2012, or as a loaded round - "white box" 130g FMJ. Either way, it's probably been loaded 3 times at the most (more likely, only once or twice). And never with anything other than the load below. . .

Winchester WSP primer.

Bullet: Friendswood BNH 18, 148g DEWC, .569". The bullet sits .475" deep into the case. Roll crimped in the groove.

Propellant: 4.4g Accurate Arms No.2. Chrono's at 935fps though a S&W 686, 4"bbl. Which is also the gun that fired it yesterday.

I know it's a bit of a hot round for a dewc, but it's also a hard bullet, so it doesn't seem to lead the barrel. This is a pet load of mine that I have been shooting a lot for well over a year now. But I'm starting to wonder if it's actually generating more pressure than I think. Furthermore, I'm going to buy a 38 Special revolver (S&W 67) for IDPA work and intend to shoot a lot of these through it - all the more reason to take a check at its software-calculated pressure.

Thanks in advance.
- Nick.

mehavey · February 17, 2014, 04:46 PM

Yeah, it's a little hot (19-20ksi) but nothing special (especially if not sticky on extraction).
That kind of case failure is pure defect/brittleness.

willr · February 17, 2014, 04:52 PM

I have had the samekind of failure in .327 Fed Mag cases, but only after about 15 loadings. It has to be a defect in the case.'

willr

BigJimP · February 17, 2014, 05:16 PM

I see a few of these failures on .38 spl cases too.../ maybe it has something to do with the length of the case - and the way pressure develops inside as it fires...??

As long as you're not loading beyond the max published recipe, I wouldn't lose a lot of sleep over it ...

Nick_C_S · February 17, 2014, 06:48 PM

There's no difficult extraction. Primers look normal.

The recipe wasn't taken from anything published. I don't even remember how I arrived at 4.4g's. It's been too long now. Accurate Arms load data doesn't have anything on it. The closest thing to it is with AA5. Which also leads me to wonder if AA2 is too fast for the application. One thing about wadcutters is that they sit deep in the case - consuming volume. The lower the available volume, the faster the propellant burns.

I'd love to know what QuickLoad calculates it to.

mehavey · February 17, 2014, 08:53 PM

19,953psi (notwithstanding QuickLoad's straight-wall quirks)
(and AA#2 burns 60% faster than #5)

WESHOOT2 · February 19, 2014, 03:48 PM

I would first investigate the dimensions of the chamber it was fired from........

Nick_C_S · February 19, 2014, 08:11 PM

I didn't notice this piece of brass until I was into the reconditioning phase (tumbled, and about to be resized). I don't know specifically which chamber of the cylinder from which it was fired. I know that particular chamber has fired many hundreds of the same recipe round.

I was just hoping someone had QuickLoad and could run the numbers for me to see what the pressure calculates to be. I'm not actually that concerned. It's just that the cracked brass gave me a moment of pause. I'm pushing a 148g slug 935 fps with AA2. The potential exists for the pressure to be rather high, by 38 Special standards.

WESHOOT2 · February 20, 2014, 12:43 PM

Oddly(?), most of the 38 Special and 357 Magnum cases I've had fail did so in the exact same manner.

BOOMST1CK · February 23, 2014, 02:23 AM

BOOMST1CK · February 23, 2014, 02:30 AM

The .357 is stamped midway. It was reloaded twice. I did not load it anywhere near a hot round.

salvadore · February 23, 2014, 08:17 AM

I've had .357 rds do the same thing due to an improper crimp, (bullet walked out),

February 17, 2014, 03:11 PM	#1
Nick_C_S Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2013 Location: Idaho Posts: 5,523	Split Case. Need some QuickLoad help. I went shooting yesterday and one round caused this split case. Now most likely, it's nothing more than a flawed case. But I wouldn't mind running the numbers. Here's the info: It's a Winchester case - 1.142". Headstamp: "Winchester 38 SPL." I either bought it new late in 2012, or as a loaded round - "white box" 130g FMJ. Either way, it's probably been loaded 3 times at the most (more likely, only once or twice). And never with anything other than the load below. . . Winchester WSP primer. Bullet: Friendswood BNH 18, 148g DEWC, .569". The bullet sits .475" deep into the case. Roll crimped in the groove. Propellant: 4.4g Accurate Arms No.2. Chrono's at 935fps though a S&W 686, 4"bbl. Which is also the gun that fired it yesterday. I know it's a bit of a hot round for a dewc, but it's also a hard bullet, so it doesn't seem to lead the barrel. This is a pet load of mine that I have been shooting a lot for well over a year now. But I'm starting to wonder if it's actually generating more pressure than I think. Furthermore, I'm going to buy a 38 Special revolver (S&W 67) for IDPA work and intend to shoot a lot of these through it - all the more reason to take a check at its software-calculated pressure. Thanks in advance. - Nick. __________________ Gun control laws benefit only criminals and politicians - but then, I repeat myself. Life Member, National Rifle Association

February 17, 2014, 08:53 PM	#6
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,896	19,953psi (notwithstanding QuickLoad's straight-wall quirks) (and AA#2 burns 60% faster than #5) Last edited by mehavey; February 18, 2014 at 07:40 AM.

February 19, 2014, 03:48 PM	#7
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	I would first investigate the dimensions of the chamber it was fired from........ __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

February 19, 2014, 08:11 PM	#8
Nick_C_S Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2013 Location: Idaho Posts: 5,523	I didn't notice this piece of brass until I was into the reconditioning phase (tumbled, and about to be resized). I don't know specifically which chamber of the cylinder from which it was fired. I know that particular chamber has fired many hundreds of the same recipe round. I was just hoping someone had QuickLoad and could run the numbers for me to see what the pressure calculates to be. I'm not actually that concerned. It's just that the cracked brass gave me a moment of pause. I'm pushing a 148g slug 935 fps with AA2. The potential exists for the pressure to be rather high, by 38 Special standards. __________________ Gun control laws benefit only criminals and politicians - but then, I repeat myself. Life Member, National Rifle Association

February 20, 2014, 12:43 PM	#9
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	Oddly(?), most of the 38 Special and 357 Magnum cases I've had fail did so in the exact same manner. __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

February 17, 2014, 04:46 PM	#2
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,896	Yeah, it's a little hot (19-20ksi) but nothing special (especially if not sticky on extraction). That kind of case failure is pure defect/brittleness.

February 17, 2014, 04:52 PM	#3
willr Senior Member Join Date: July 23, 2006 Posts: 356	I have had the samekind of failure in .327 Fed Mag cases, but only after about 15 loadings. It has to be a defect in the case.' willr

February 17, 2014, 05:16 PM	#4
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	I see a few of these failures on .38 spl cases too.../ maybe it has something to do with the length of the case - and the way pressure develops inside as it fires...?? As long as you're not loading beyond the max published recipe, I wouldn't lose a lot of sleep over it ...

February 17, 2014, 06:48 PM	#5
Nick_C_S Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2013 Location: Idaho Posts: 5,523	There's no difficult extraction. Primers look normal. The recipe wasn't taken from anything published. I don't even remember how I arrived at 4.4g's. It's been too long now. Accurate Arms load data doesn't have anything on it. The closest thing to it is with AA5. Which also leads me to wonder if AA2 is too fast for the application. One thing about wadcutters is that they sit deep in the case - consuming volume. The lower the available volume, the faster the propellant burns. I'd love to know what QuickLoad calculates it to. __________________ Gun control laws benefit only criminals and politicians - but then, I repeat myself. Life Member, National Rifle Association

February 23, 2014, 02:23 AM	#10
BOOMST1CK Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2014 Posts: 117

February 23, 2014, 02:30 AM	#11
BOOMST1CK Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2014 Posts: 117	The .357 is stamped midway. It was reloaded twice. I did not load it anywhere near a hot round.

February 23, 2014, 08:17 AM	#12
salvadore Junior member Join Date: January 1, 2007 Location: Idaho Posts: 2,282	I've had .357 rds do the same thing due to an improper crimp, (bullet walked out),