military brass

[mister c]

I have quite a few military rounds, which i pulled the bullets and dumped the power. they are all 1941 and 1942 stamped fron FA,LC and DENVER,I want to deprime them but not size them. he cartridges have corrosion on most and brass worn. How do I do this? also the bullets are all copper unless they afilled lead under the copper. the tips are painted black about 3/8 inch and weigh in at 165 pluss or minus a tenth. and the powder had know pundgent smell after 70 years. I would appreciated any help......THANKYOU mister c.

[mrawesome22]

If you don't resize you probably aren't going to get enough neck tension on the new bullets you seat.

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[wncchester]

I assume you have 30-06 ammo. The old arsenal cases usually work fully as well as new stuff.

The black tipped bullets are likely "armor piercing", meaning they have a normal military jacket over a case hardened steel core with a little lead surrounding the core. They shoot fine.

Decapping any cases without resizing normally requires a "universal decapping" die. The G.I. primers will be crimped in place so you'll need a very strong decap pin to do it. I recommend Lee's die because it has the strongest stem and pin available.

You will have to remove the primer crimps before re-priming; several makers have tools to do that. I've found Lyman's hand crimp reamer cutter chucked in an electric drill to be fast, easy and inexpensive. Using a drill bit or a counter sink/champhering tool to remove crimps usually removes more metal from around the primer cup than some of us feel is wise.

I don't quite know what you mean about the cases being "worn" but dark tarnish is harmless. Green corrosion is NOT harmless and I toss any with green that causes pitting in the metal. An hour or so soaking in white vinegar followed by a through fresh water rinse will pretty much remove tarnish and light corrosion. The cleaned cases may then be allowed to dry and used normally OR you may make them look new by tumbling.

Unless your "new" bullets are smaller in diameter than the originals the necks will have plenty of "tension" to hold them in place.

Pour your dumped powder in your ladies flower beds, the nitrogen is a great fertilizer; Toss the old primers off a bridge, they are harmless to the environment.

[Unclenick]

Ditto the above except to say a black tipped 165 grain .30 cal bullet is definitely AP—that's the weight of the standard issue combat AP from that era—and unless they are green corroded by the nitric acid in the decaying powder, they should be fine to load and shoot.

I prefer citric acid solution (about 5% by weight in water; 7 oz + 1 gal water) to vinegar as it activates the surface less and so you get less darkening and no staining.

The primers will be corrosive chlorate primers. If you want, you can put a few drops of penetrating oil into the bottoms of the emptied cases and let them sit upright for a few weeks on the off-chance that will deactivate them. That often fails with protectively coated modern primers, but may work on the old ones.

[Slamfire]

I have quite a few military rounds, which i pulled the bullets and dumped the power. they are all 1941 and 1942 stamped fron FA,LC and DENVER,I want to deprime them but not size them. he cartridges have corrosion on most and brass worn. How do I do this? also the bullets are all copper unless they afilled lead under the copper. the tips are painted black about 3/8 inch and weigh in at 165 pluss or minus a tenth. and the powder had know pundgent smell after 70 years. I would appreciated any help......THANKYOU mister c.

Something that is not appreciated in the shooting community is that gunpowder has a shelf life

Section from the Army Propellant Management Guide:

Stabilizers are chemical ingredients added to propellant at time of manufacture to decrease the rate of propellant degradation and reduce the probability of auto ignition during its expected useful life.

As nitrocellulose-based propellants decompose, they release nitrogen oxides. If the nitrogen oxides are left free to react in the propellant, they can react with the nitrate ester, causing further decomposition and additional release of nitrogen oxides. The reaction between the nitrate ester and the nitrogen oxides is exothermic (i.e., the reaction produces heat). Heat increases the rate of propellant decomposition. More importantly, the exothermic nature of the reaction creates a problem if sufficient heat is generated to initiate combustion. Chemical additives, referred to as stabilizers, are added to propellant formulations to react with free nitrogen oxides to prevent their attack on the nitrate esters in the propellant. The stabilizers are scavengers that act rather like sponges, and once they become “saturated” they are no longer able to remove nitrogen oxides from the propellant. Self-heating of the propellant can occur unabated at the “saturation” point without the ameliorating effect of the stabilizer. Once begun, the self-heating may become sufficient to cause auto ignition.

That nitric acid gas causes corrosion and will appear as green corrosion on the bullets and inside of the case.


As this report puts it: Nitrocellulose-base propellants are essentially unstable materials that decompose on aging with the evolution of oxides of nitrogen. The decomposition is autocatalytic and can lead to failure of the ammunition or disastrous explosions.

ROLE OF DIPHENYLAMINE AS A STABILIZER IN PROPELLANTS;
ANALYTICAL CHEMISTRY OF DIPHENYLAMINE IN PROPELLANTS

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/783499.pdf

Heat, as you can see in the report, will age gunpowder




A shelf life rule of thumb is 20 years for double based,45 years for single based.

Gunpowder that is red or smells bitter is way past a safe shelf life. You can still have pressure issues with old gunpowder that does not smell. Old gunpowder does not burn evenly, this can lead to pressure spikes, old gunpowder has blown up rifles. I believe this is an example:

Garand Blowup with old US ammunition.

http://www.socnet.com/showthread.php?p=1344088

I would not shoot ammunition that has evidence of bad powder or corrosion inside the case or on the bullets. I would not reload the cases as nitric acid gas weakens brass.

I suggest you pull all the bullets on your WWII ammunition, pour the powder on the lawn, save the bullets for rock busting, and sell the brass to a scrap yard.

[mister c]

thanks for the help, well ive bent or broke three pins sizing and decapping these cases and thats only eighteen. yes some of the cases had black tarnished marks also some of the bullets are green at the base and inside the case. Ive resized mil brass before and never had primers that hard to remove, but they were newer and all were fired. so far the fowers have been fertilzed. Again thanks for all the help from everone..........mister c

[Slamfire]

thanks for the help, well ive bent or broke three pins sizing and decapping these cases and thats only eighteen. yes some of the cases had black tarnished marks also some of the bullets are green at the base and inside the case

If you would, post pictures of the worst green corroded bullets. They would be excellent examples of nitric acid gas outgassing from old powder.

[Unclenick]

Slamfire,

Thanks for the link. The most interesting thing to me from that table (when you look at the whole thing) is that the single-base powders appeared to use the stabilizer more efficiently, having less left at the end of the test, but retaining a higher percentage of nitrogen in their nitrocellulose than the double base powders did.

{Note to other readers: This is a case where posting printed material without permission from the author is OK as it is a released-to-public study done at taxpayer expense. All other materials, please read the board policy on posting copyrighted materials.}


Mr. C,

With corroded cases, you may have corrosion helping lock the primers in place. The penetrating oil pre-soak I suggested may make that decapping job easier.