8mm surplus ammo help

8mm · July 21, 2011, 09:45 PM

i need to know what country made this ammo and how hot the loads are.

jonnyc · July 22, 2011, 07:40 AM

The 21 RPR is Romanian, and I've found it, especially in its later steel case version, on the lighter side. The other is Turkish, and it is a bit more stout. I'm not sure which bullet weight you have in the Turkish, but some have found it rather hot.

SurplusShooter · July 22, 2011, 07:58 AM

Looks like turk ammo and the packs a hell of a punch. It is ONLY meant to be shot from a bolt action not a semi or full auto it will crack the receiver and break other parts.

rdf.hack · July 22, 2011, 02:55 PM

I read about 2-3 people who shoot turk ammo out of SAFN-49s and experienced no issues. But, do you knwo where i can find some?

8mm · July 22, 2011, 03:21 PM

you can fing 8m turk on gun brocker type 8mm under rifle ammo second page. ( 8mm 8x571950 turkish copper jacket) thats what title line says.

**Mike Irwin** · July 23, 2011, 12:45 PM

Turkish military surplus ammo would typically have some form of Arabic script, a half-moon and star reminiscent of what is on the Turkish flag, or both.

As Jonny said, that's likely Romanian, but it's definitely not Turkish. Or, if it is, it's a form of headstamp that is totally new for them.

**44 AMP** · July 23, 2011, 02:19 PM

And clean your gun accordingly. If non-corrosive, no harm done, just a little more work. But most surplus ammo from eastern nations is corrosive primed.

The US ended corrosive priming of its military ammo beginning in the 1950s, but other nations didn't until much, much later, and some may still be making new ammo with corrosive priming. Assume any foreign surplus ammo to be corrosive, act accordingly, and you won't damage your gun.

If you don't already know, corrosive priming leaves behind chemical salts from the priming compound, that will absorb and trap water against the steel, causing rapid rust. They can be cleaned away with water, and then followed by the normal cleaning routine, all will be well.

8mm · July 23, 2011, 05:29 PM

i was going to use the romanian rounds in my gew 88 but it has a .318 bore have to buy another 8 mm mauser to use them sluged it lastnight thanks for all the info.

gyvel · July 23, 2011, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Turkish military surplus ammo would typically have some form of Arabic script, a half-moon and star reminiscent of what is on the Turkish flag, or both.

I'm not certain about that; The Turks use the Roman alphabet.

JHansenAK47 · July 23, 2011, 06:37 PM

Quote:

I'm not certain about that; The Turks use the Roman alphabet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_alphabet
They were using arabic script until they switched over to roman script in the late 1920s and early 1930s.

tater134 · July 23, 2011, 06:59 PM

The ammo on the right is definitely Turkish surplus. Ive got several ammo cans full of it and as some of the other posts stated it is loaded hot. I believe it is loaded with 154gr bullets if I remember correctly.

jonnyc · July 23, 2011, 10:33 PM

I'm confused about the confusion here. There are two different rounds pictured. The one on the left (21RPR) is 100% Romanian. The one on the right (FS...1945...) is 100% Turkish. Both can have two different bullet weights, pull and weigh to be sure. No other discussion is really relevant.

8mm · July 23, 2011, 10:41 PM

i just wanted to know the countries because i was going to shot it out of a gew 88 witch has a .318 bore and the bullets are .323 cant use them in my rifle. just wanted to know country.

**Mike Irwin** · July 24, 2011, 04:27 PM

Damn, I looked at the one on the right and for some reason saw a commercial headstamp, not a military one, and thought we were talking about the one on the left. Sigh.

But, as I said, Turkish ammo would have either Arabic script and/or a moon and star, and there's a Crescent Moon and Star on the headstamp. It's hard to see in that picture, but it's on the bottom beside the T.

According to Munhall and White, the headstamp is actually read with the TC and the moon and star at the top.

TC means Trkiye Cumhuriyet, or Turkish Republic.

The FS is an abbreviation for Fisek, the Turkish word for bullet. Apparently this is to differentiate the cartridges from blanks.

ksstargazer · July 25, 2011, 08:45 PM

jonnyc nailed it - Romanian on the left and Turkish on the right. I would not shoot Turkish out of a GEW 88. The Turkish is definitely hot and should only be shot in a Model 98 or newer that is in good condition.

8mm · July 25, 2011, 09:35 PM

the gun has a .318 bore i wouldent shoot neather through it. because the bullets are problly .321-.323.

F. Guffey · July 26, 2011, 01:28 AM

http://www.turkmauser.com/ammo.aspx

http://www.turkmauser.com/models.aspx

http://www.turkmauser.com/serialNumbers.aspx

F. Guffey

F. Guffey · July 26, 2011, 01:34 AM

http://www.turkmauser.com/ammo/mhbTurk.aspx

F. Guffey

8mm · July 26, 2011, 02:08 PM

my gew 88 has the turkish stamp but its still .318 they say it should be .323 i sluged it 3 times i know the barrel on the bottom has a z stamp the lands measure .318-.319.

F. Guffey · July 26, 2011, 05:28 PM

I am sure your correct, but, Model #1887 was 9.5mm60R, the #1890 was 7.65mm53 Belgium, the #1893 was 7.65mm53 Belgium, the #1903 was 7.65mm53 Belgium Mauser/Argentine, then they became 8mm57 Mauser starting in 1933.

Both the 8mm57 and 7.65mm53 had two diameters, both were supposed to have a .311 bore, one had a land depth of .318, the other was .323, then? It is believed the .318 barrel was throated to have a forcing cone to accommodate the new and improved larger .323 bullet and then there are those that say "And that is all that is required....".

There may not be an answer to every question and I have no problem with saying "I DO NOT KNOW", When I slug a barrel the strong get weak and the weak pass out, the most unlikely measurement I come across is the .311 bore, most common bores are closer to .316.

F. Guffey

8mm · July 26, 2011, 05:44 PM

it takes 8x57 ammo but the older ones i was told 8x57j the bullet was .318 it has the s stamp on the reciever and has the turkish moon also and has a z on the bottom of the barrel.

adrians · July 26, 2011, 06:10 PM

is the "Z" in a circle ?,, if so it means your barrel is a czeck barrel and is prolly as you say .318 .
if your reciever has the "s" stamp it just means that the chamber was opened slightly to accept the .323 spitzer bullet which will allow for the 8x57js round ,your barrel in my opinion would be safer to shoot the 8x57j size and stay away from military turk ammo its hot stuff and the gew88 wasn't really meant to take those kind of pressures.
i cast for my 88 and keep to under 1800 fps and below38,000 psi.
YMMV. have a good one .

8mm · July 26, 2011, 06:14 PM

i put the whole rounfd in the chamber went in with no effort ill have to look to see if it has the circle.

F. Guffey · July 26, 2011, 06:33 PM

http://www.turkmauser.com/models.aspx

Again, I am sure you are correct, I do not know when your rifle became a Turkish rifle, your rifle was a Gew 88 and then became a Turkish Mauser in the last response. First because I do not have to, I do not shoot 8mm57 with .323 diameter bullets in an old Mauser with a .311/.318 barrel, back to the fix-it with the throat reamer, the barrel/receiver? was stamped with an 'S'.

http://milsurpshooter.net/topic/2545...-vs-321-vs-323

Scroll to Doc AV

F. Guffey

8mm · July 26, 2011, 06:57 PM

so what the other bord is telling me is that i could shoot a.321-.323. bullet out of the gun because of the modification adrians i dident see the circle around the z its on the barrel on the top

what is the diameter of the s type round it was modified for it so you should be able to fire it then.

July 23, 2011, 12:45 PM	#6
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,389	Turkish military surplus ammo would typically have some form of Arabic script, a half-moon and star reminiscent of what is on the Turkish flag, or both. As Jonny said, that's likely Romanian, but it's definitely not Turkish. Or, if it is, it's a form of headstamp that is totally new for them. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

July 23, 2011, 02:19 PM	#7
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,832	also, assume it is corrosive primed... And clean your gun accordingly. If non-corrosive, no harm done, just a little more work. But most surplus ammo from eastern nations is corrosive primed. The US ended corrosive priming of its military ammo beginning in the 1950s, but other nations didn't until much, much later, and some may still be making new ammo with corrosive priming. Assume any foreign surplus ammo to be corrosive, act accordingly, and you won't damage your gun. If you don't already know, corrosive priming leaves behind chemical salts from the priming compound, that will absorb and trap water against the steel, causing rapid rust. They can be cleaned away with water, and then followed by the normal cleaning routine, all will be well. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

July 24, 2011, 04:27 PM	#14
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,389	Damn, I looked at the one on the right and for some reason saw a commercial headstamp, not a military one, and thought we were talking about the one on the left. Sigh. But, as I said, Turkish ammo would have either Arabic script and/or a moon and star, and there's a Crescent Moon and Star on the headstamp. It's hard to see in that picture, but it's on the bottom beside the T. According to Munhall and White, the headstamp is actually read with the TC and the moon and star at the top. TC means Trkiye Cumhuriyet, or Turkish Republic. The FS is an abbreviation for Fisek, the Turkish word for bullet. Apparently this is to differentiate the cartridges from blanks. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

July 26, 2011, 01:28 AM	#17
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	Turkish ammo http://www.turkmauser.com/ammo.aspx http://www.turkmauser.com/models.aspx http://www.turkmauser.com/serialNumbers.aspx F. Guffey

July 26, 2011, 06:57 PM	#25
8mm Senior Member Join Date: July 7, 2011 Location: east coast Posts: 105	so what the other bord is telling me is that i could shoot a.321-.323. bullet out of the gun because of the modification adrians i dident see the circle around the z its on the barrel on the top what is the diameter of the s type round it was modified for it so you should be able to fire it then. Last edited by 8mm; July 26, 2011 at 07:09 PM.

July 22, 2011, 07:40 AM	#2
jonnyc Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2009 Location: PA Posts: 1,731	The 21 RPR is Romanian, and I've found it, especially in its later steel case version, on the lighter side. The other is Turkish, and it is a bit more stout. I'm not sure which bullet weight you have in the Turkish, but some have found it rather hot.

July 22, 2011, 07:58 AM	#3
SurplusShooter Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2011 Location: Upstate,New york Posts: 308	Looks like turk ammo and the packs a hell of a punch. It is ONLY meant to be shot from a bolt action not a semi or full auto it will crack the receiver and break other parts.

July 22, 2011, 02:55 PM	#4
rdf.hack Senior Member Join Date: June 7, 2011 Posts: 173	I read about 2-3 people who shoot turk ammo out of SAFN-49s and experienced no issues. But, do you knwo where i can find some?

July 22, 2011, 03:21 PM	#5
8mm Senior Member Join Date: July 7, 2011 Location: east coast Posts: 105	you can fing 8m turk on gun brocker type 8mm under rifle ammo second page. ( 8mm 8x571950 turkish copper jacket) thats what title line says.

July 23, 2011, 05:29 PM	#8
8mm Senior Member Join Date: July 7, 2011 Location: east coast Posts: 105	i was going to use the romanian rounds in my gew 88 but it has a .318 bore have to buy another 8 mm mauser to use them sluged it lastnight thanks for all the info.

July 23, 2011, 06:59 PM	#11
tater134 Senior Member Join Date: August 22, 2009 Location: NE,PA Posts: 390	The ammo on the right is definitely Turkish surplus. Ive got several ammo cans full of it and as some of the other posts stated it is loaded hot. I believe it is loaded with 154gr bullets if I remember correctly.

July 23, 2011, 10:33 PM	#12
jonnyc Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2009 Location: PA Posts: 1,731	I'm confused about the confusion here. There are two different rounds pictured. The one on the left (21RPR) is 100% Romanian. The one on the right (FS...1945...) is 100% Turkish. Both can have two different bullet weights, pull and weigh to be sure. No other discussion is really relevant.

July 23, 2011, 10:41 PM	#13
8mm Senior Member Join Date: July 7, 2011 Location: east coast Posts: 105	i just wanted to know the countries because i was going to shot it out of a gew 88 witch has a .318 bore and the bullets are .323 cant use them in my rifle. just wanted to know country.

July 25, 2011, 08:45 PM	#15
ksstargazer Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2004 Location: Flint Hills of Kansas Posts: 316	jonnyc nailed it - Romanian on the left and Turkish on the right. I would not shoot Turkish out of a GEW 88. The Turkish is definitely hot and should only be shot in a Model 98 or newer that is in good condition.

July 25, 2011, 09:35 PM	#16
8mm Senior Member Join Date: July 7, 2011 Location: east coast Posts: 105	the gun has a .318 bore i wouldent shoot neather through it. because the bullets are problly .321-.323.

July 26, 2011, 01:34 AM	#18
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	http://www.turkmauser.com/ammo/mhbTurk.aspx F. Guffey

July 26, 2011, 02:08 PM	#19
8mm Senior Member Join Date: July 7, 2011 Location: east coast Posts: 105	my gew 88 has the turkish stamp but its still .318 they say it should be .323 i sluged it 3 times i know the barrel on the bottom has a z stamp the lands measure .318-.319.

July 26, 2011, 05:28 PM	#20
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	I am sure your correct, but, Model #1887 was 9.5mm60R, the #1890 was 7.65mm53 Belgium, the #1893 was 7.65mm53 Belgium, the #1903 was 7.65mm53 Belgium Mauser/Argentine, then they became 8mm57 Mauser starting in 1933. Both the 8mm57 and 7.65mm53 had two diameters, both were supposed to have a .311 bore, one had a land depth of .318, the other was .323, then? It is believed the .318 barrel was throated to have a forcing cone to accommodate the new and improved larger .323 bullet and then there are those that say "And that is all that is required....". There may not be an answer to every question and I have no problem with saying "I DO NOT KNOW", When I slug a barrel the strong get weak and the weak pass out, the most unlikely measurement I come across is the .311 bore, most common bores are closer to .316. F. Guffey

July 26, 2011, 05:44 PM	#21
8mm Senior Member Join Date: July 7, 2011 Location: east coast Posts: 105	it takes 8x57 ammo but the older ones i was told 8x57j the bullet was .318 it has the s stamp on the reciever and has the turkish moon also and has a z on the bottom of the barrel.

July 26, 2011, 06:10 PM	#22
adrians Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2010 Location: mountain view ,ar. Posts: 184	is the "Z" in a circle ?,, if so it means your barrel is a czeck barrel and is prolly as you say .318 . if your reciever has the "s" stamp it just means that the chamber was opened slightly to accept the .323 spitzer bullet which will allow for the 8x57js round ,your barrel in my opinion would be safer to shoot the 8x57j size and stay away from military turk ammo its hot stuff and the gew88 wasn't really meant to take those kind of pressures. i cast for my 88 and keep to under 1800 fps and below38,000 psi. YMMV. have a good one .

July 26, 2011, 06:14 PM	#23
8mm Senior Member Join Date: July 7, 2011 Location: east coast Posts: 105	i put the whole rounfd in the chamber went in with no effort ill have to look to see if it has the circle.

July 26, 2011, 06:33 PM	#24
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	http://www.turkmauser.com/models.aspx Again, I am sure you are correct, I do not know when your rifle became a Turkish rifle, your rifle was a Gew 88 and then became a Turkish Mauser in the last response. First because I do not have to, I do not shoot 8mm57 with .323 diameter bullets in an old Mauser with a .311/.318 barrel, back to the fix-it with the throat reamer, the barrel/receiver? was stamped with an 'S'. http://milsurpshooter.net/topic/2545...-vs-321-vs-323 Scroll to Doc AV F. Guffey