The smok'in gun -- smoky reloads

[CZ MAN]

HEY , FOLKS LOOKING FOR A SOLUTION TO A PROBLEM ???

I AM WORKING UP A LOAD FOR MY 45 ACP PISTOL , FULL SIZE. ... USING HOME CAST BULLETS FROM A LEE 230 GR. RN MOLD WITH THE TUMBLE LUBE GROVES. LOADED WITH UNIQUE POWDER , 5.4 GRS .... MANUAL SAYS ITS ABOUT 750 F.P.S. ----- LIGHT LOAD BY NORMAL STANDARDS.... LUBED WITH LEE ALOX .. TUMBLED AND LET TO DRY AS INSTRUCTED.... THE ALLOY , STANDARD WHEEL WEIGHTS CASTED AND HARDENED BY DROPPING INTO A BUCKET OF WATER......

I SHOOT THE LOADS , FUNCTIONS GREAT , MINIMAL RECOIL , 2 INCH GROUPS AT 10 YARDS ...ALMOST NO LEADING AT ALL... A FEW STROKES WITH THE GUN BRUSH AND BORE IS SHINEY AND CLEAN.... A SHOOTERS DREAM... BUT THE CATCH IS THEY SMOKE UP THE INDOOR RANGE UNTIL I FEEL EVERY ONE IS STARING AT ME TO STOP OR TO GET OUT OF THERE....


RANGE OWNER REQUEST THAT I STOP SHOOTING THE RELOADS UNTIL THE PROBLEM IS FIXED OR JUST SHOOT FMJ AMMO...

WHAT IS WRONG WITH MY BULLETS OR HOW CAN I RESOLVE THIS DELEMA.... WRONG POWDER ? , LUBE ?

NOTE. WHEN SHOOTING THERE IS SOME UNBURNT POWDER RESIDUE ON MY HAND.......



CZ MAN

[Powderman]

The problem is common with the use of bullet lube. Your rounds are smoking up the place because of the Lee tumble lube.

I suggest a bit of an investment...Get a Magma Engineering Star lubrisizer and the proper die. Invest a bit more in a lube heater, and use a good lube like Thompson's Blue Angel or Rooster Red Zambini. This should bring the smoke level down to a minimum.

If you want a bit more protection--or perhaps completely substitute--take a long look at Rooster Jacket lube. It is a tumble type lube that (when dry) does not leave the gunk of Alox based lubes. It's supposed to make the rounds very pleasant to shoot--little if any smoke--with complete protection for the bullet.

[hickstick_10]

Unique and Alox :barf:

Thats about the foulest and smokiest mix there is!! Unique is basically a combustible dirt and Alox makes a nice clingy smoke (looks cool when it wisps out of a lever gun)

Try another powder and a harder (there are various pan lube recipes in the listed forum below) lube, lube sizer WILL be in your future regardless.

Oh and join this forum and ask your question, the fellas there can certainly help you out as well. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/index.php

[troy_mclure]

for clean low smoke tumble lube follow the link.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=67654

i also get tons of smoke from win powders.

[Scorch]

I started sizing and lubing my own bullets years ago because of the smoke issue with cheap lubes. I used to use Lyman Orange Magic lube, and my shooting buddy used Rooster Red. I can vouch for them being non-smoky. Never heard of Blue Angel until now, but I don't cast and size bullets any more.

[GP100man]

Get a lubesizer & the dies to suit your needs .
I use Lyman 450 sizers ,the star is a faster sizerluber but more $$ & if needs warrant a star & could afford it I`d have no problem with that .

Then go here:

http://www.lsstuff.com/lube/


I`ll vouch for the carnauba red & if ya don`t like it PM me & I`ll buy it from ya !

[Unclenick]

CZ Man,

Stay with the microband tumble lube bullets. Their accuracy is very difficult to beat.

I've not tried the formula Troy posted the link to, but I think I will. Nor have I tried the Rooster variant on tumble lube. I do buy White Label Xlox, but that's just the same thing as Liquid Alox from the same manufacturer (but at $10.50 a quart, is cheaper). But I have done a couple things with the Liquid Alox that seem to help with smoke:

One, you can use a rag damp with mineral spirits to wipe off the bullet bases. That reduces the amount of Liquid Alox exposed to the flame temperature, so it reduces smoke. The trade-off is the melting Alox does protect the base of the bullet from heat to some extent, so it's possible you may start to get a little leading after doing this, but it's worth a try. Your loads aren't very hot.

Two, thin the Liquid Alox with 10% to as much as 20% mineral spirits. Out of the bottle it goes on thick enough bullets fired at magnum velocities to low rifle velocities. That's not what you are shooting.

Three, when the tumble lube has dried to the tacky state, I sprinkle mine with motor mica (Midway) and roll them around some more to cover them. That coating is much like what Hornady's swaged bullets are lubricated with. It seems to reduce how much Alox is left in the bore between rounds, and that reduces smoke a bit.

Four, change to Hodgdon Universal Clays powder (not Clays; Universal Clays). It will mimic your Unique load ballistics with about 95%-100% of the Unique charge weight (start at the 95% and work up). It burns much more cleanly and meters more consistently from a powder measure than Unique.

[Sport45]

It isn't necessary to shout....

Try the lube suggestions already given. And tell your range management they have a problem with their ventilation system. Everyone shooting in there is putting clouds of smoke and lead vapor in the air. Yours just happens to be visible.

[CZ MAN]

HI , ther folks

Thanks for the help , will try to thin the lube a bit , and remove lube from the base... Just can't buy a luber / sizer at this moment.... will try to change powder.... , and already had added mica , to deal with handling those sticky bullets .....


Question ?? what if i remove the lube all together.... at 750 fps and with a hard alloy.... will leading increase drastically......

For now i'll go to an outdoor range untill i get the bugs worked out.....


Thanks , CZ MAN

[bfoosh006]

http://www.precisionbullets.com/

https://blackbulletsinternational.com/

... while those links won't solve your specific problem, those "coated" lead bullets will cut back lead smoke and fouling dramatically.

[chris in va]

I went to my local indoor range recently with my lead 9mm reloads. The smoke was so thick I thought they would haul me out of there.

I now shoot outdoors. You're right though, Unique smokes quite a bit. I may go back to Universal.

[Jeff H]

Just to add another interesting twist to this thread, I load bullets made by the same local manufacturer using the same lube and push my 9mm, 38 spec, and 45ACP all with Bullseye powder. the 38spec is the lightest load of the 3 (somewhere around 3.5 grains IIRC) and it puts out about 3 times the smoke as the other two. Only thing I can figure is that the 38 spec is loaded a bit to light for Bullseye to come up to pressure and burn cleaner. <weird>

Don't get me wrong, the 9 and 45 aren't what you would call clean, they just don't have a large black cloud every time you pull the trigger.

[troy_mclure]

you shoulda seen my boolits today, they were leaving soot trails across the chronograph.

[benzuncle]

I can't recall who offered this advice but I'll throw it out there: Loading at the Minimum Charge makes for smokier loads. Loading more towards the Maximum Charge makes for cleaner loads. As I'm not trying to blow my guns up I don't load my 45ACP's beyond the Max recommended charge but do load them near it and have noticed less smoke since reading that shared info and giving it a try. YMMV

[Unclenick]

No question that higher pressure makes for more complete combustion. .38 Special is at the disadvantage that it's rated peak pressure is lower than the other rounds mentioned, so loads intended for it often don't make as much pressure as loads meant for the others. Especially the 9. If I were working up lower velocity loads for the .38 Special today, I'd look long and hard at Trail Boss, which is about the cleanest burning stuff I've ever run into.