The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Tactics and Training

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old November 19, 2007, 02:38 PM   #1
lastchancebaby
Member
 
Join Date: October 29, 2007
Posts: 43
223 ammo for home defense?

Hello,
After much research it appears that varmint rounds VMAX, etc would be good home defense rounds. For instance a 55g bullet would basically disintegrate and transfer entire energy to close range target? Moreover, you will probably have no over-penetration; however, I have also read that you should never use varmint rounds (i.e. VMAX) for defense?
thanks

Last edited by lastchancebaby; November 19, 2007 at 03:30 PM.
lastchancebaby is offline  
Old November 19, 2007, 03:45 PM   #2
dwatts47
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 30, 2007
Location: arkansas
Posts: 995
In the situation of Home defense I'd choose Hornady's TAP...

Its resoanably the same thing as VMAX (polymer ballistic tip), but made for use on 'bigger' animals.
__________________
I see no reason why man should not be as cruel as mother nature.
dwatts47 is offline  
Old November 19, 2007, 05:18 PM   #3
JBarn3
Member
 
Join Date: July 25, 2002
Location: New Orleans, La (Escaped So Kalifornia)
Posts: 54
Agree with the Hornady TAP, thats what I keep in my mini-14 mags, should it be needed.
__________________
"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." --Thomas Jefferson
JBarn3 is offline  
Old November 19, 2007, 10:31 PM   #4
timothy75
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 19, 2005
Location: Nevada
Posts: 1,146
Rarely will a 223 over penetrate an attacker its the misses you should worry about. For that reason I dont think the heavier loadings of TAP are the best choice for general home defense. A 45gr hp will lose its penetration potential much faster than a nato spec 75gr fmj after passing through light barriers. For rural home defense by all means go with the TAP but if in town with close neighbors I'd recomend the Vmax. Good luck
timothy75 is offline  
Old November 19, 2007, 10:50 PM   #5
bobn
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 30, 2006
Location: midwest
Posts: 1,097
the 50 grain hollow point that fed sells was devolped for LE. bobn
bobn is offline  
Old November 20, 2007, 04:32 AM   #6
JBarn3
Member
 
Join Date: July 25, 2002
Location: New Orleans, La (Escaped So Kalifornia)
Posts: 54
The TAP is offered in 55, 60, and 75 gr varieties. I have the 60gr.

In my case, the .223 isn't my first (or 2nd) choice for in the home defense, but rather I keep a couple mags loaded in case a more serious event were to occur (this being storm season in New Orleans).

If I did need to step up to that level of firepower, the TAP is what I would trust.
__________________
"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." --Thomas Jefferson
JBarn3 is offline  
Old November 20, 2007, 11:24 AM   #7
ragwd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 20, 2006
Posts: 925
.223/5.56 For home defense? Sorry for my noob question but how many actual use the .223/5.56 for home defense? I keep mine in the safe and have the Mossberg 500 Cruiser at hand. I am not saying its wrong cause I dont know enough. But the misses would go through several rooms ??
ragwd is offline  
Old November 20, 2007, 12:04 PM   #8
dwatts47
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 30, 2007
Location: arkansas
Posts: 995
Quote:
But the misses would go through several rooms ??

Several magazine "home gunfire" articles have shown that 9mm and .45ACP FMJ will actaully penetrate more interior walls than 7.62x39 and 5.56 FMJ.

The loads we're discussing here are a 'hollow point' rifle bullet with a polymer tip to force it to expand. The idea being that a VMAX bullet hitting a stud or intruder will surely not penetrate HOWEVER: NO HOLLOW POINT OF ANYKIND THAT I'VE YET TO SEE WILL EXPAND AND 'STOP' WHEN FIRED INTO SHEETROCK WALLS OR PANEL WALLS...

So in most cases... ANY MISS inside a home with any defense load will produce some degree of overpenetration.
__________________
I see no reason why man should not be as cruel as mother nature.
dwatts47 is offline  
Old November 20, 2007, 12:20 PM   #9
grymster2007
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2007
Location: In the oak studded hills near Napa
Posts: 2,203
.223 is generally reserved for those occasions when you find the need to control an entire neighborhood.
__________________
grym
grymster2007 is offline  
Old November 20, 2007, 06:31 PM   #10
Mannlicher
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 8, 2001
Location: North Central Florida & Miami
Posts: 3,207
I load Winchester 45 Grain HP in my Bushmaster for HD.
__________________
Nemo Me Impune Lacesset

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so.".........Ronald Reagan
Mannlicher is offline  
Old November 21, 2007, 05:44 PM   #11
David Armstrong
Junior member
 
Join Date: January 24, 2005
Location: SW Louisiana
Posts: 2,289
Quote:
Several magazine "home gunfire" articles have shown that 9mm and .45ACP FMJ will actaully penetrate more interior walls than 7.62x39 and 5.56 FMJ.
That is frequently mis-stated, as it is here. SOME 9mm rounds and such will penetrate more than SOME 5.56 and such. All depends on bullet selection.
David Armstrong is offline  
Old November 23, 2007, 05:12 PM   #12
Para Bellum
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 7, 2005
Location: right there
Posts: 1,882
M193

Check out the ammo oracle: http://www.ammo-oracle.com/body.htm
__________________
Si vis pacem - para bellum
If you want peace - prepare for war
Para Bellum is offline  
Old November 23, 2007, 08:53 PM   #13
New_Pollution1086
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 26, 2007
Location: WC - CA
Posts: 680
i would never use .223 for HD, but i live in an apt in a college town. thats why the good lord saw fit to give me a pistola.
__________________
"I have ridden the mighty moon worm, and it was good"
"Aim Big miss Big, Aim small Miss small"
"Don't rush the monkey and you'll see a better show."
- T. Boone Pickens
New_Pollution1086 is offline  
Old November 24, 2007, 11:46 AM   #14
Para Bellum
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 7, 2005
Location: right there
Posts: 1,882
Remington Tests online

Here's a lot of good ammo-information:
http://www.le.atk.com/pdf/223%20Rifle%20Data%20Book.pdf

My HD-Gun (Steyr AUG) is loaded with Federal LE223T3 and some spare mags with milspec M193 by magtech.
__________________
Si vis pacem - para bellum
If you want peace - prepare for war
Para Bellum is offline  
Old November 24, 2007, 12:33 PM   #15
stephen426
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 11, 2005
Posts: 3,840
.223 is not my ideal home defense round since it is most often fired out of a rifle. That makes clearing the house much harder and much more susceptible to a gun grab. There is also the noise consideration since .223 is much louder than most handgun rounds. If your idea of home defense is to barricade yourself in a safe room and blast anyone that comes through, a shotgun works great (probably buck shot). If you need to clear your house, get a good handgun.
__________________
The ATF should be a convenience store instead of a government agency!
stephen426 is offline  
Old November 24, 2007, 01:24 PM   #16
Zombie Steve
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 3, 2007
Location: Old Colorado City
Posts: 527
Quote:
the 50 grain hollow point that fed sells was devolped for LE. bobn
These are good performers and a lot cheaper alternative to the TAP ammo (I do really like the TAP, though). They worked great this summer out of my Bushy XM-15 - absolutely shredded up some prairie dogs. No bullets recovered... a little overkill on a PD... I think they would put a hurtin' on a bad guy. If you hit what you're aiming at, I don't think it will matter much.

I still use a shotgun for HD.
Zombie Steve is offline  
Old November 25, 2007, 11:31 AM   #17
Para Bellum
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 7, 2005
Location: right there
Posts: 1,882
Quote:
223 is not my ideal home defense round since it is most often fired out of a rifle. That makes clearing the house much harder and much more susceptible to a gun grab
That's why I like the Steyr AUG so much. A very short rifle with a 20" barrel.

__________________
Si vis pacem - para bellum
If you want peace - prepare for war
Para Bellum is offline  
Old November 27, 2007, 11:55 AM   #18
stephen426
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 11, 2005
Posts: 3,840
Quote:
That's why I like the Steyr AUG so much. A very short rifle with a 20" barrel.
Your Steyr UGLY... er I mean AUG still has much more to grab on than ANY pistol. A gun is only dangerous in a single vector. As long as I am not in front of the barrel when the bullet comes out, I am safe. A knife on the other hand is dangerous in an arc, but lacks the range. Maybe you should slap a bayonet on it and some spikes on it.

__________________
The ATF should be a convenience store instead of a government agency!
stephen426 is offline  
Old November 30, 2007, 03:00 PM   #19
Para Bellum
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 7, 2005
Location: right there
Posts: 1,882
Federal's Test Data and Pics

check this out:

http://www.le.atk.com/223data/223rifle.asp?pgtocall=2
__________________
Si vis pacem - para bellum
If you want peace - prepare for war
Para Bellum is offline  
Old December 8, 2007, 04:44 PM   #20
BAGTIC
Member
 
Join Date: July 7, 2007
Posts: 97
".223 is not my ideal home defense round since it is most often fired out of a rifle. That makes clearing the house much harder and much more susceptible to a gun grab."

Home defense is not about 'clearing the house'. HD is about protecting the occupants until the cops arrive. No matter what you are carrying if you go looking for the intruders you risk being ambushed. Find as safe a place as possible where you can cover the approaches and let them come to you.
BAGTIC is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:53 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.08426 seconds with 8 queries