Old Wingmaster bluing?

spacecoast · November 2, 2009, 06:47 PM

My old 1970-vintage 870 Wingmaster works great, and the wood is shiny and well preserved, but the metal parts have taken on a blotchy-brown patina that is pretty consistent across the whole gun, barrel included (picture is attached). There is no rust, just a dull gunmetal/brown spot finish, so my question is -

Should I try to apply some bluing myself? I saw a kit the other day with three bottles - cleaner, bluing and something else. Is something like that sufficient? I'm not concerned that the gun is something special, it's not, but I would like to improve its looks and help prevent further deterioration or corrosion.

Recommendations? Is this a do-it-yourself project for someone who's never done it before? I know how to remove the barrel, if I do this myself should I further disassemble the gun? What other materials will I need, and how long will it take?

Thanks in advance...

Scorch · November 3, 2009, 03:29 AM

My recommendation is don't try to blue it yourself. Cold blue is not durable and certainly looks blotchy after a few months or years. The metal is badly rusted/corroded, needs polishing and rebluing. Find a good gunsmith and have it reblued. Once you learn how to clean and oil the metal parts of your shotgun it will retain the shine and luster for many years.

spacecoast · November 3, 2009, 05:37 AM

Quote:

The metal is badly rusted/corroded

Thanks for the reply, the thing I don't understand about the finish is that other than the color, it doesn't seem to be rusted or deteriorating at all - nothing comes off on your hands, and it hasn't changed a bit in the ten years I've owned the gun. I guess I'll just keep a bit of oil on it and let it continue to age, kind of like a vintage silver coin.

dalecooper51 · November 3, 2009, 08:00 AM

If you want a project and don't mind having more in the gun then it is worth, then by all means get it reblued. I would stay away from the cold blue kits. Another option is to have it parkerized or one of the bake on coatings applied.

If it were mine, I would clean it up, give it a good coat of wax, and call it a day.

spacecoast · November 3, 2009, 08:35 AM

Quote:

If it were mine, I would clean it up, give it a good coat of wax, and call it a day.

By clean it up, do you mean rub with something like fine steel wool until the (apparent) rust stains come off, and then wax? Or just make sure it's clean (which it is) and apply the wax over the existing color?

I haven't checked on mine but it looks like I will be able to remove the stock by taking off the recoil pad. Presumably the fore end isn't much if any more difficult to remove.

Horseman · November 3, 2009, 05:33 PM

It's possible some polishing would improve things. Bluing does sometimes change it's luster and color as it ages. I'd try a light polish and oil. If that doesn't work I'd send it off to Glenrock blue for a very factory looking finish. Wax works great on guns but I'd stick with oil. Wax gives kind of a silvery look that would be the opposite of what you want in this situation. Silicone cloth or CLP will leave a lustrous shine that will make the existing blue look as deep/dark as possible. Go easy on the polishing.

m.p.driver · November 3, 2009, 06:08 PM

Have an ex Wells Fargo 870 that they carried in their armored cars,gave $69 back when.Stock was oil soaked and cracked and the finish was a rust brown-gray.But it was like Scattergun Technologies old sales line"You cant wear an 870 out"After years of pickup truck and home defense duty i got the bug and went ahead and replaced the wood with synthetic and duracoated the rest an O.D. green.Simple,effective,but looks all business and will probably out last me.Check their web site out that have colors to please everyone.

RockyMtnTactical · November 3, 2009, 06:17 PM

I would probably refinish it myself. Not sure the average person would want to though...

If memory serves me right, the sunshine state is Florida?

Interesting. Living our here in the west, I own a Wingmaster from the late 60's, and it looks pretty dang good for being 40 years old.

spacecoast · November 3, 2009, 06:54 PM

That's a beautiful gun Rocky, the wood on mine is in similar condition, but there is literally NO bluing left whatsoever (see the pic I first attached). I plan to disassemble and try some cleaner/wax, steel wool or maybe even some rubbing compound on the exposed metal parts to see if they will clean up some.

Horseman · November 3, 2009, 09:36 PM

I just saw the OP picture. Missed it the first time I read it. IMO that gun needs to be either draw filed and reblued or beadblasted and refinished. There may be more pitting there than can be drawfiled smooth again. If that's the case I'd have it bead blasted, parked, and topcoated with duracoat or similar.

spacecoast · November 4, 2009, 08:26 AM

Quote:

IMO that gun needs to be either draw filed and reblued or beadblasted and refinished. There may be more pitting there than can be drawfiled smooth again. If that's the case I'd have it bead blasted, parked, and topcoated with duracoat or similar.

Hmm... that sounds a bit expensive for a gun that cost less than $200 to begin with, and was never intended to win any beauty contests. Is there anything I could do on my own (other than the previously not recommended cold bluing) to prevent more corrosion? I went over it with some car cleaner/wax last night, which removed a bit of rust but didn't change the appearance much. Another option I thought of is to hit it with a coat of clear lacquer spray paint, but I doubt if that would last long the first time it's touched with cleaning solvent. Maybe something a little more solvent-resistant?

Horseman · November 4, 2009, 08:41 AM

If cost is a concern you can always paint it as recommended already. Keep the solvents off of it if you do. The alternative would be to use it as is and buy a new 870 Express for $300 if you want a gun with better finish. With all those pits cold blue would look terrible. Some type of paint is the best low cost choice. There's actually some textured Rust o leum paints that look and feel like parkerizing. They are very durable. I did a rusty old Enfield a couple of years ago and it still looks like the day I sprayed it. Cost was $5. It left a texture that would cover most of the pits on that 870.

Dave McC · November 4, 2009, 09:14 PM

Contact Brownell's. They list a goodly number of spray finishes, some of which are oven dried and tough as heck.

I've seen a beater 870 done like that. The finish was nigh flawless and the action was unaffected. It shucked as it should.

Slickly.

Lee Lapin · November 5, 2009, 02:53 PM

Unfortunately, the blotches really are rust. And the rest of the metal finish is quite worn as well, if the picture is any indication. It's definitely in need of some attention, but I doubt you'd be happy with the results you got from cold blue in this case. Personally I can't stand the smell of cold blue or any gun it's been heavily used on, but just call me picky.

A decent hot blue job is likely to be pretty expensive these days, and a poor one will probably make you more unhappy with the gun than you are now. Parkerizing is a possibility, but if you want shiny blue to go with the shiny wood, then parkerizing just isn't going to do it for you. Unfortunately, the best you're likely to get out of anything DIY is likely not going to go well with shiny wood- it's likely to be matte no matter what.

So, bottom line pretty much says if you want shiny blued metal to go with the shiny wood and don't mind spending the money to get it, a good professional hot blue job is the best way to go. A matte finish on the metal and a set of synthetic furniture, or oil finished wood, might wind up being cheaper and possibly might open up some satisfactory DIY options.

hth,

lpl

spacecoast · November 5, 2009, 03:21 PM

Thanks for all the suggestions, I have some "rust-stopper" flat black paint that I am going to try once I take a shot at getting more of the rust off and the pits and other corrosion smoothed out a bit. I'll post before and after pics when I've got 'er back together.

I love the way the 870 comes apart - makes it very easy to paint. The inside of the receiver looks pretty clean, no major rust issues at all. The inside of the barrel is pristine.

November 3, 2009, 03:29 AM	#2
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	My recommendation is don't try to blue it yourself. Cold blue is not durable and certainly looks blotchy after a few months or years. The metal is badly rusted/corroded, needs polishing and rebluing. Find a good gunsmith and have it reblued. Once you learn how to clean and oil the metal parts of your shotgun it will retain the shine and luster for many years. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

November 3, 2009, 06:17 PM	#8
RockyMtnTactical Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 2006 Location: Western US Posts: 1,961	I would probably refinish it myself. Not sure the average person would want to though... If memory serves me right, the sunshine state is Florida? Interesting. Living our here in the west, I own a Wingmaster from the late 60's, and it looks pretty dang good for being 40 years old. __________________ https://battlebornreview.com/

November 5, 2009, 02:53 PM	#14
Lee Lapin Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2004 Location: SE NC Posts: 1,239	Unfortunately, the blotches really are rust. And the rest of the metal finish is quite worn as well, if the picture is any indication. It's definitely in need of some attention, but I doubt you'd be happy with the results you got from cold blue in this case. Personally I can't stand the smell of cold blue or any gun it's been heavily used on, but just call me picky. A decent hot blue job is likely to be pretty expensive these days, and a poor one will probably make you more unhappy with the gun than you are now. Parkerizing is a possibility, but if you want shiny blue to go with the shiny wood, then parkerizing just isn't going to do it for you. Unfortunately, the best you're likely to get out of anything DIY is likely not going to go well with shiny wood- it's likely to be matte no matter what. So, bottom line pretty much says if you want shiny blued metal to go with the shiny wood and don't mind spending the money to get it, a good professional hot blue job is the best way to go. A matte finish on the metal and a set of synthetic furniture, or oil finished wood, might wind up being cheaper and possibly might open up some satisfactory DIY options. hth, lpl __________________ Mindset - Skillset - Toolset. In that order! Attitude and skill will get you through times of no gear, better than gear will get you through times of no attitude and no skill.

November 3, 2009, 08:00 AM	#4
dalecooper51 Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2007 Location: Eastern PA Posts: 318	If you want a project and don't mind having more in the gun then it is worth, then by all means get it reblued. I would stay away from the cold blue kits. Another option is to have it parkerized or one of the bake on coatings applied. If it were mine, I would clean it up, give it a good coat of wax, and call it a day.

November 3, 2009, 05:33 PM	#6
Horseman Senior Member Join Date: February 1, 2006 Location: Midwest Posts: 1,067	It's possible some polishing would improve things. Bluing does sometimes change it's luster and color as it ages. I'd try a light polish and oil. If that doesn't work I'd send it off to Glenrock blue for a very factory looking finish. Wax works great on guns but I'd stick with oil. Wax gives kind of a silvery look that would be the opposite of what you want in this situation. Silicone cloth or CLP will leave a lustrous shine that will make the existing blue look as deep/dark as possible. Go easy on the polishing.

November 3, 2009, 06:08 PM	#7
m.p.driver Senior Member Join Date: January 25, 2009 Location: Ohio Posts: 552	Have an ex Wells Fargo 870 that they carried in their armored cars,gave $69 back when.Stock was oil soaked and cracked and the finish was a rust brown-gray.But it was like Scattergun Technologies old sales line"You cant wear an 870 out"After years of pickup truck and home defense duty i got the bug and went ahead and replaced the wood with synthetic and duracoated the rest an O.D. green.Simple,effective,but looks all business and will probably out last me.Check their web site out that have colors to please everyone.

November 3, 2009, 06:54 PM	#9
spacecoast Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2009 Location: Sunshine and Keystone States Posts: 4,461	That's a beautiful gun Rocky, the wood on mine is in similar condition, but there is literally NO bluing left whatsoever (see the pic I first attached). I plan to disassemble and try some cleaner/wax, steel wool or maybe even some rubbing compound on the exposed metal parts to see if they will clean up some.

November 3, 2009, 09:36 PM	#10
Horseman Senior Member Join Date: February 1, 2006 Location: Midwest Posts: 1,067	I just saw the OP picture. Missed it the first time I read it. IMO that gun needs to be either draw filed and reblued or beadblasted and refinished. There may be more pitting there than can be drawfiled smooth again. If that's the case I'd have it bead blasted, parked, and topcoated with duracoat or similar.

November 4, 2009, 08:41 AM	#12
Horseman Senior Member Join Date: February 1, 2006 Location: Midwest Posts: 1,067	If cost is a concern you can always paint it as recommended already. Keep the solvents off of it if you do. The alternative would be to use it as is and buy a new 870 Express for $300 if you want a gun with better finish. With all those pits cold blue would look terrible. Some type of paint is the best low cost choice. There's actually some textured Rust o leum paints that look and feel like parkerizing. They are very durable. I did a rusty old Enfield a couple of years ago and it still looks like the day I sprayed it. Cost was $5. It left a texture that would cover most of the pits on that 870.

November 4, 2009, 09:14 PM	#13
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Contact Brownell's. They list a goodly number of spray finishes, some of which are oven dried and tough as heck. I've seen a beater 870 done like that. The finish was nigh flawless and the action was unaffected. It shucked as it should. Slickly.

November 5, 2009, 03:21 PM	#15
spacecoast Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2009 Location: Sunshine and Keystone States Posts: 4,461	Thanks for all the suggestions, I have some "rust-stopper" flat black paint that I am going to try once I take a shot at getting more of the rust off and the pits and other corrosion smoothed out a bit. I'll post before and after pics when I've got 'er back together. I love the way the 870 comes apart - makes it very easy to paint. The inside of the receiver looks pretty clean, no major rust issues at all. The inside of the barrel is pristine.