1911 Carry loads: HST, Gold Dot, Fedral Hi Shok...does it matter?

Cossack · October 15, 2016, 01:23 PM

I normally carry 230gr Federal classic "Hi Shok jhps in my Colt. Those and 230gr Golden Sabres are all that I have tried. Both function without problems and shoot to a similar POI. I was going to pick up some more boxes of the Federals, but I came across the Federal HSTs for about the same price and Gold Dots for a few dollars less - all 230gr. So I made the mistake of thinking, and started wo wonder if I should...

1. Stick with the classics - I know they work in my gun and shoot right, and I like them. If I bought a different design, it would end up costing more because I shoot a bunch to check them out for feed issues and POI. The Federals already check out.

2. Get the Gold Dots or HSTs - they're more modern designs and priced right.

3. Quit worrying about it

. It's a .45 and all three are good loads.

DHart · October 15, 2016, 01:36 PM

http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self...tic-tests/#9mm

HST is worth changing over to if you want the best performance, and likely to function just fine for you, but the difference isn't night and day. If making a change is too stressful for you, just keep on keeping on.

michael t · October 15, 2016, 01:37 PM

Quote:

3. Quit worrying about it . It's a .45 and all three are good loads

I started in 1970's and Super Vel ammo I long ago gave up on the almost weekly newest and greatest HP. To many gel test and on and on.
What the real chance your going to need that HP. Take you pick .I think reliable feeding , accuracy , and penetration. a lot more important that my brand expands more than yours

Cossack · October 15, 2016, 01:46 PM

That's a really handy chart! I'll use that as a reference. However they used a shorter barrel than I own.

However, I'll bookmark that page. Thanks.

medic15al · October 15, 2016, 01:50 PM

All listed are excellent rounds. You need to consider the following 3 factors in choosing defensive ammo.

First: Reliability. The gun MUST work when you need it to.

Second: Accuracy. You need the ability to place rounds on target in the vitals, This is paramount along with ability to penetrate there.

Third: Bullet performance. It is a handgun bullet, it must penetrate first to cause bleeding to induce Hypovolemic shock. Any expansion is a plus.

Do not expect instant one shot stop. It can happen but it is mostly psychogenic shock. ( Oh my God! I've been shot!) type reaction.

P71pilot · October 15, 2016, 01:59 PM

HSTs really cant be beat. They usually give the deepest penetration. And open up nicely

Darkstar888 · October 15, 2016, 02:08 PM

HST is the best of all. Hydrashock is outdated technology. HST is the most current and best performer in all calibers, weight and pressure. My second choice is always Gold Dot.

Fla_dogman · October 15, 2016, 02:12 PM

I vote for #3 too

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk

roashooter · October 15, 2016, 02:24 PM

with a 1911.....more lives have been ended with plain old ball...than all the high tech/tactical rounds combined!!!

JMB knew what he was doing!!

Edgehill · October 15, 2016, 04:50 PM

When I first started carrying the Valor I did a lot of research on the different rounds. HSTs came at the top of nearly every test I saw. That's what I carry now.

sigxder · October 18, 2016, 01:21 PM

I would go with the HST's or Gold Dots. The only complaint I've heard of the Hi Shok is that it sometimes clogs up on heavy clothing. The first two loads are made to open pretty much no matter what. Why not maximize every advantage you can get?

jr24 · October 18, 2016, 03:34 PM

Go with feeds 100% first, worry about the rest after.

Me, I like to run standard pressure 230 grain HST in all my .45s, from Glocks to 1911's.

RickB · October 18, 2016, 04:27 PM

In a 5" gun, I'd use whatever 230gr load will feed reliably.
I've gone through three iterations of Hydra-shok, followed by Winchester SXT, and today I think I'm using the bonded PDX1.
And definitely no +P stuff.
I'm very much in the camp of penetration above all, and if you get some expansion, all the better.

Hawg · October 18, 2016, 04:41 PM

230 grain home cast SWC's.

std7mag · October 18, 2016, 08:23 PM

I don't use store bought, even for carry ammo.

I use 3 different loadings, depending where I'm going, and what kind of possible threat there may be.

For anti personel I use 185gr. Sierra HP loaded over Ramshot Silhouette.

For mixed personel/animals I alternate in the mag, 185gr. Sierra, 200gr. Hornady LSWC C/T.

When just in the woods (we have black bear, coyotes, elk) I mix the mag with 200gr. Hornady LSWC C/T, and Berry's 185gr. Plated FP.

vba · October 20, 2016, 03:58 AM

Also in the camp that agrees option 3 is the best solution. Always felt I was chasing my tale with keeping up with the latest and greatest.

Sarge · October 20, 2016, 04:59 AM

Heck I carried USA 230 JHP. The stuff expands fine in water jugs and is usually available. HST 230 is excellent ammo as well.

CDW4ME · October 20, 2016, 07:05 PM

Analogy:
45 HST, Gold Dot = good steak
45 Hi-Shok = regular ground beef
45 FMJ = hot dog made from trimmings

If picking what might be my last meal, I choose steak.

Darkstar888 · October 20, 2016, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDW4ME

Analogy:

45 HST, Gold Dot = good steak

45 Hi-Shok = regular ground beef

45 FMJ = hot dog made from trimmings

If picking what might be my last meal, I choose steak.

I love it! Agree 100%.

briandg · October 20, 2016, 08:42 PM

Three.

The chances of tagging someone with either of the rounds well and coming up short are pretty slim You get a crappy hit with anything, nothing is going to help you, and a good hit with any of the above isn't going to a fraction of a bit different.

Gunslick · October 20, 2016, 09:37 PM

Oh ya man go to the HST's. They feed very well since they have a nice round nose (in my Springfield at least) and the standard pressure is all you need, +p isn't worth the extra 40 fps or whatever it is and the expansion is CRAZY. One of my gel tests measured 1 1/8th" expansion and full weight retention. I do like the 185 gr Golden Saber and am curious how it would be in +p because in the +p round its hitting over 1000 fps and something like 511 ft lbs of energy. Old design but a great bullet. I say no to Gold Dots because the bullets set back really easy in all calibers I have tried them in which is 9mm, .40, and .45. With HST I can chamber like 4 or 5 times with no set back issues, the bullet does set back a tiny bit but if you have digital calipers just don't shoot anything lower than 1.2045..that is the shortest one I have shot and have seen them as short as 1.2055 and as long as my most recent batch at 1.2135.

Nick_C_S · October 20, 2016, 09:45 PM

I wanted to use Speer's 200gn GDHP +P; but ran into minor feeding problems.

I tried a few others. But the one that feeds flawlessly in my Springfield Mil-Spec is Hornady's 230gn XTP +P. So they get nightstand duty. Chronographs at 956 f/s - pretty stout round.

Gunslick · October 20, 2016, 10:33 PM

Ya I hear the +p 230 gr Critical Defense is a good round. How would you all compare it to the HST? I think the Critical Defense is more of a round aimed toward penetration than an equal of penetration and expansion. I loved the Critical Defense in 9mm because the expansion was good and penetration was great.

Double Naught Spy · October 20, 2016, 10:51 PM

Quote:

All listed are excellent rounds. You need to consider the following 3 factors in choosing defensive ammo.

First: Reliability. The gun MUST work when you need it to.

Second: Accuracy. You need the ability to place rounds on target in the vitals, This is paramount along with ability to penetrate there.

Third: Bullet performance. It is a handgun bullet, it must penetrate first to cause bleeding to induce Hypovolemic shock. Any expansion is a plus.

I thought this was interesting. I really haven't found any quality defensive pistol ammo that wasn't sufficiently accurate out to 25 yards for consistent T Zone head shots. Accuracy is important, but at such short ranges, it seems to have been a given. The only functional issues I have had have been reliability.

So I buy for performance, then verify reliability and accuracy. If the top performer doesn't work, I move to #2 and see how it does, and so on.

On long guns, accuracy seems to be a much more significant factor as ranges are much greater.

October 15, 2016, 01:23 PM	#1
Cossack Senior Member Join Date: May 2, 2006 Posts: 260	1911 Carry loads: HST, Gold Dot, Fedral Hi Shok...does it matter? I normally carry 230gr Federal classic "Hi Shok jhps in my Colt. Those and 230gr Golden Sabres are all that I have tried. Both function without problems and shoot to a similar POI. I was going to pick up some more boxes of the Federals, but I came across the Federal HSTs for about the same price and Gold Dots for a few dollars less - all 230gr. So I made the mistake of thinking, and started wo wonder if I should... 1. Stick with the classics - I know they work in my gun and shoot right, and I like them. If I bought a different design, it would end up costing more because I shoot a bunch to check them out for feed issues and POI. The Federals already check out. 2. Get the Gold Dots or HSTs - they're more modern designs and priced right. 3. Quit worrying about it . It's a .45 and all three are good loads.

October 15, 2016, 01:50 PM	#5
medic15al Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2007 Location: Pell City, AL Posts: 123	All listed are excellent rounds. You need to consider the following 3 factors in choosing defensive ammo. First: Reliability. The gun MUST work when you need it to. Second: Accuracy. You need the ability to place rounds on target in the vitals, This is paramount along with ability to penetrate there. Third: Bullet performance. It is a handgun bullet, it must penetrate first to cause bleeding to induce Hypovolemic shock. Any expansion is a plus. Do not expect instant one shot stop. It can happen but it is mostly psychogenic shock. ( Oh my God! I've been shot!) type reaction. __________________ NREMT-P AL State EMT-Paramedic ACLS, BTLS, PHTLS, 1991-2006

October 15, 2016, 01:59 PM	#6
P71pilot Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2014 Location: Cincinnati Posts: 728	HSTs really cant be beat. They usually give the deepest penetration. And open up nicely __________________ Without the 2nd amendment, all other rights would not exist

October 15, 2016, 02:08 PM	#7
Darkstar888 Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2016 Posts: 113	1911 Carry loads: HST, Gold Dot, Fedral Hi Shok...does it matter? HST is the best of all. Hydrashock is outdated technology. HST is the most current and best performer in all calibers, weight and pressure. My second choice is always Gold Dot. Last edited by Darkstar888; October 15, 2016 at 04:53 PM.

October 15, 2016, 04:50 PM	#10
Edgehill Member Join Date: February 19, 2012 Location: South Florida Posts: 59	When I first started carrying the Valor I did a lot of research on the different rounds. HSTs came at the top of nearly every test I saw. That's what I carry now. __________________ COTEP: 739

October 15, 2016, 01:36 PM	#2
DHart Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 591	http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self...tic-tests/#9mm HST is worth changing over to if you want the best performance, and likely to function just fine for you, but the difference isn't night and day. If making a change is too stressful for you, just keep on keeping on. Last edited by DHart; October 15, 2016 at 06:06 PM.

October 15, 2016, 01:46 PM	#4
Cossack Senior Member Join Date: May 2, 2006 Posts: 260	That's a really handy chart! I'll use that as a reference. However they used a shorter barrel than I own. However, I'll bookmark that page. Thanks.

October 15, 2016, 02:12 PM	#8
Fla_dogman Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2015 Posts: 265	I vote for #3 too Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk

October 15, 2016, 02:24 PM	#9
roashooter Junior member Join Date: December 24, 2010 Posts: 508	with a 1911.....more lives have been ended with plain old ball...than all the high tech/tactical rounds combined!!! JMB knew what he was doing!!

October 18, 2016, 01:21 PM	#11
sigxder Senior Member Join Date: August 20, 2009 Posts: 390	I would go with the HST's or Gold Dots. The only complaint I've heard of the Hi Shok is that it sometimes clogs up on heavy clothing. The first two loads are made to open pretty much no matter what. Why not maximize every advantage you can get?

October 18, 2016, 03:34 PM	#12
jr24 Senior Member Join Date: August 29, 2011 Posts: 870	Go with feeds 100% first, worry about the rest after. Me, I like to run standard pressure 230 grain HST in all my .45s, from Glocks to 1911's.

October 18, 2016, 04:27 PM	#13
RickB Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2000 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 8,518	In a 5" gun, I'd use whatever 230gr load will feed reliably. I've gone through three iterations of Hydra-shok, followed by Winchester SXT, and today I think I'm using the bonded PDX1. And definitely no +P stuff. I'm very much in the camp of penetration above all, and if you get some expansion, all the better. __________________ Runs off at the mouth about anything 1911 related on this site and half the time is flat out wrong.

October 18, 2016, 04:41 PM	#14
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,190	230 grain home cast SWC's.

October 18, 2016, 08:23 PM	#15
std7mag Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2013 Location: Central Taxylvania.. Posts: 3,609	I don't use store bought, even for carry ammo. I use 3 different loadings, depending where I'm going, and what kind of possible threat there may be. For anti personel I use 185gr. Sierra HP loaded over Ramshot Silhouette. For mixed personel/animals I alternate in the mag, 185gr. Sierra, 200gr. Hornady LSWC C/T. When just in the woods (we have black bear, coyotes, elk) I mix the mag with 200gr. Hornady LSWC C/T, and Berry's 185gr. Plated FP.

October 20, 2016, 03:58 AM	#16
vba Senior Member Join Date: October 26, 2008 Posts: 357	Also in the camp that agrees option 3 is the best solution. Always felt I was chasing my tale with keeping up with the latest and greatest.

October 20, 2016, 04:59 AM	#17
Sarge Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2002 Location: MO Posts: 5,457	Heck I carried USA 230 JHP. The stuff expands fine in water jugs and is usually available. HST 230 is excellent ammo as well. __________________ People were smarter before the Internet, or imbeciles were harder to notice.

October 20, 2016, 07:05 PM	#18
CDW4ME Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 2009 Posts: 1,321	Analogy: 45 HST, Gold Dot = good steak 45 Hi-Shok = regular ground beef 45 FMJ = hot dog made from trimmings If picking what might be my last meal, I choose steak. __________________ Strive to carry the handgun you would want anywhere, everywhere; forget that good area bullcrap. "Wouldn't want to / Nobody volunteer to" get shot by _____ is not indicative of quickly incapacitating.

October 20, 2016, 08:42 PM	#20
briandg Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2010 Posts: 5,468	Three. The chances of tagging someone with either of the rounds well and coming up short are pretty slim You get a crappy hit with anything, nothing is going to help you, and a good hit with any of the above isn't going to a fraction of a bit different. __________________ None.

October 20, 2016, 09:37 PM	#21
Gunslick Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2016 Posts: 321	Oh ya man go to the HST's. They feed very well since they have a nice round nose (in my Springfield at least) and the standard pressure is all you need, +p isn't worth the extra 40 fps or whatever it is and the expansion is CRAZY. One of my gel tests measured 1 1/8th" expansion and full weight retention. I do like the 185 gr Golden Saber and am curious how it would be in +p because in the +p round its hitting over 1000 fps and something like 511 ft lbs of energy. Old design but a great bullet. I say no to Gold Dots because the bullets set back really easy in all calibers I have tried them in which is 9mm, .40, and .45. With HST I can chamber like 4 or 5 times with no set back issues, the bullet does set back a tiny bit but if you have digital calipers just don't shoot anything lower than 1.2045..that is the shortest one I have shot and have seen them as short as 1.2055 and as long as my most recent batch at 1.2135.

October 20, 2016, 09:45 PM	#22
Nick_C_S Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2013 Location: Idaho Posts: 5,523	I wanted to use Speer's 200gn GDHP +P; but ran into minor feeding problems. I tried a few others. But the one that feeds flawlessly in my Springfield Mil-Spec is Hornady's 230gn XTP +P. So they get nightstand duty. Chronographs at 956 f/s - pretty stout round. __________________ Gun control laws benefit only criminals and politicians - but then, I repeat myself. Life Member, National Rifle Association

October 20, 2016, 10:33 PM	#23
Gunslick Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2016 Posts: 321	Ya I hear the +p 230 gr Critical Defense is a good round. How would you all compare it to the HST? I think the Critical Defense is more of a round aimed toward penetration than an equal of penetration and expansion. I loved the Critical Defense in 9mm because the expansion was good and penetration was great.