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Old October 9, 2013, 06:07 PM   #51
3.Shot.Group.
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@BabyChief

Maybe you're not getting enough gun work for some other reason than we're doing it all ourselves.
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Old October 9, 2013, 06:14 PM   #52
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So you think "PLANNED OBSOLESCENCE" is a marketing scheme to help customers believe the warranty service is great and will increase word of mouth sales?
Sometimes.

But for the record, I hardly consider the 1911 obsolete, nor do I think it was planned to ever be.
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Old October 10, 2013, 12:00 AM   #53
Babychief
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Gunwork?

Planned obsolescence has nothing to do with making a product obsolete it means a product is under engineered so you have to buy replacement parts for it so the manufacturer continues to make money after the initial purchase..

What makes you think i do any smithing on firearms?

Believe me here locally "three gun" i would agree with you if you wanted to do your own work,there are two smiths that i know of that are marginal at best.
One doesnt checker/dehorn and the other doesnt weld,lug or do any slide to frame fitting. They do mostly "trigger jobs",spray and bake and sight replacements. Back in new england where im from they wouldnt be called gunsmiths nor machinists.
I dont smith for a living i do it as a hobby for friends,family and competitive shooters. I dont mill any more,there are plenty of quality forged/tool steel parts out there. Infinity,EGW,smith and alexander,Kraft etc.

I dont nitre blue much anymore (600degree salt peter and water incident), but i enjoy hand checkering and serrations mostly.

I love nitre bluing though,this is a little too much,i like just the pins and grip screws. Im going to do the pins and ed brown allen head grip screws on my Colt enhanced gov this week. If i have time,if not i have a friend who does them alot for revolver guys

Last edited by Babychief; October 10, 2013 at 12:14 AM.
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Old October 10, 2013, 03:10 AM   #54
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Quote:
There are two smiths that i know of that are marginal at best. One doesnt checker/dehorn and the other doesnt weld,lug or do any slide to frame fitting.
I can't speak for their knowledge and/or skills, but I can understand why some smiths choose not to do things like checkering and dehorning.

With the ready availability of hard-fit barrels, there's just no good reason to weld up barrel lugs for a tighter fit. At one time, it was the only way, but the "good old days" are gone and they weren't all that good anyway.

Peening and squeezing slides and frames for refitting is labor intensive, and with modern slides...squeezing in a vise is a crapshoot because with many... you don't know what sort of material you're working with.

I've squeezed a good many slides, but they were older slides that could be squeezed for fit. Modern slides are springy. Trying to do the job quickly will result in no change or a cracked slide. That turns it into a gradual process, where a little pressure is added at a time...and left to sit in the vise overnight...lather/rinse/repeat for about a week.

Then...if you're lucky...when you finally take it out of the vise, you find that it's only changed about .002-.003 inch...and some just spring back with no change.

The availability of good quality closely-machined slide and frame sets from the folks at Caspian that generally only need lapping in for the final fit has pretty much rendered the old techniques and skills obsolete, except for the hobbyist...and even then, ya gotta be careful with those slides, lest you start crankin' on the vise and hear the dreaded "tink" that tells ya that it's just become a paperweight.

These days, About the most I'll do is swage the frame rails to reduce vertical play, and leave the side-to-side play alone unless I'm working with a slide made prior to 1946.
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Last edited by 1911Tuner; October 10, 2013 at 03:17 AM.
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Old October 10, 2013, 11:00 AM   #55
James K
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A couple of interesting points on that feeding. First, forget the nice pictures about the easy and gentle action of a 1911. Not true.

When the gun is fired, the slide comes back hard and slams into the recoil spring guide, which is backed by the frame. The slide does not lose its energy, it deposits much of it with the frame, which returns it so the slide bounces off the frame. The slide does not begin its return due to the spring since the spring takes time to recover, it begins its return due to that almost instantaneous bounce.

So the slide is moving very fast as it encounters the top round in the magazine. The magazine is designed so that the rim of the top round sits in the extractor groove of the next round and some pressure is required to get it moving. It is that slight delay that allows the round to rise along the breech face and under the extractor.

If the magazine is designed to minimize that resistance in a misguided effort to make feeding smoother, the fast moving slide will act like a baseball bat hitting a ball and kick the round free of the magazine and ahead before the extractor even reaches it. Meantime, the next round in the magazine is trying to move up under pressure from the magazine spring. It hits the jammed round and stops in the way of the slide. The slide hits it and stops, totally locking up the gun.

Since the extractor is not engaging the rim of either round, the usual "rack" won't work. The usual procedure is to lock the slide back, remove the magazine, allowing the first round to fall through the magazine well, reseat the second round in the magazine and reinsert the magazine. Then releasing the slide will return the gun to service.

Now, remember the comment I made about the extractor groove in those cartridges? And remember what I said about the top round needing to resist the slide momentarily? If the extractor groove front slope is too shallow, there is not enough resistance to the rim of the top round, and the jam will result.

So, my "diagnosis" is not the magazine but the ammunition. And "tuning" the extractor won't make a bit of difference, since the extractor had no part in causing the jam.

What say you, Tuner?

Jim
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Old October 10, 2013, 12:27 PM   #56
polyphemus
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OP says:
Quote:
This is a brand new gun using factory ammo (Magtech 45a).
Easy enough to check if there's a proper extractor fit,take the slide off and
insert a round in it,then inspect it with a loupe,only the case rim should be in contact.It is possible that he has two defective magazines,I seem to have got at
least one that was junk out the box,it was binding so bad that it had some
serious wear marks on the follower skirt,they told me that it was normal even
though it was causing failures to the sixth and seventh rounds.
At the very least OP could try a GI style magazine.
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