hypothetical armed robber unaware of you - Page 4

38SnubFan · February 16, 2005, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Shoot the bad guy. You are justified to use deadly force to stop severe bodily injury to another person. Who says the guy wont shoot the clerk, then come and looking for witnesses to shoot? Then it's a shootout. End it before it gets to that point and before the bad guy sees you.

That seems common sense to me. I've given my opinion to this type of scenario before and both myself and a friend of mine (who is an LEO) got ranted and flamed upon. In this scenario, the threat IS imminent. If I can take the shot without harming others, then the BG gets one to the head or center of mass - no warning given, no questions asked.

I am once again (no suprise there!) offended by those who stated, "Poor clerk! Sucks to be him/her. He/she should have been armed." Well, chances are, he/she is not. So does this mean you do not help him/her? Are you really that freaking selfish!?

Quote:

Dont miss. that would suck.

Yeah! No sh**!

-Snub

Vanguard.45 · February 16, 2005, 09:54 AM

1. BANG! BANG! BANG!

2. Go and examine the wounds created by my .45 (curiosity)

3. BANG! (He twitched in the direction of his gun.)

4. Apply for a grant from the Feds claiming that I was "involved" in research concerning ballistics and wounding that would be utilized by the FBI in determining the most effective handgun rounds and in the overall crime statistics.

5. Get a lawyer for the subsequent Wrongful Death lawsuit where I get to hear the "I failed as a mom" complainant describe how her boy was an angel and that it wasn't right how I shot her baby. Nevermind that her other eight kids are all in prison!!

Vanguard.45

abelew · February 18, 2005, 06:54 PM

Most bank robbers want $, let them have it, make a good witness. Dont draw attn to yourself unless needed. Being stupid and playing rambo is going to get people killed. Its too bad that in that kind of situation, there aren't any good answers.

Maxprime · February 28, 2005, 02:51 PM

I think the majority is in line with my thinking - shoot only if the person warrants it. If the gun is "in his pocket" or anything of the like, screw it. If he starts getting tense and waving the gun around or if it EVER sweeps my direction, double tap.

He's holding his gun up to the clerk and you cap him, he accidentally caps the clerk - you've caused a death that might not have happened. It's a tough call, very situation-specific.

9mmsnoopy · February 28, 2005, 09:07 PM

"SO let say you get a clear shot and you talk it, bad guy goes down and everybody is happy. Now comes the detectives and one of the first people they talk to is the clerk who was being robbed. NOW your case hang on what the clerk says. IF they say "he was about to shoot me" all is well, BUT what if they say "all this guy wanted was a few bucks for Christmas and he never had any intention of shooting me, I was not afraid and know he would be on his way, I'm not even sure he had a real gun", guess what happens now. Life as you know it is over."

i disagree. Americans are fed up with crime. if a BG has a gun in someones face, you do not know what his intentions are, and you wont untill its too late. if indeed he has a gun pointed at someone and you take him down, i dont think a jury in America would convict you.(criminal or cival)

having said that.... i honestly cant say what i would do in that situation. i think the right thing to do would be to put one right in his back and end it right there. hopefully none of us will ever have to find out what we would do.

9mmsnoopy · February 28, 2005, 09:12 PM

this thread reminds me if the pizza parlor incident a couple weeks ago. that guy was getting the crap beat out of him and all those other people just stood there and watched. its rare when someone wants to help out these days. Mr. Wilson in tyler was a rare breed unfortunately.

38SnubFan · March 1, 2005, 12:15 AM

Quote:

If the gun is "in his pocket" or anything of the like, screw it.

I have to agree with that. I'm of the feeling that most BG's with a "gun" in their pocket really only have their pointed finger in there. That said though, I'd still be getting behind cover and ready to do what needs done if it escalates from there.

-Snub

mvpel · March 1, 2005, 09:42 AM

Quote:

this thread reminds me if the pizza parlor incident a couple weeks ago. that guy was getting the crap beat out of him and all those other people just stood there and watched. its rare when someone wants to help out these days. Mr. Wilson in tyler was a rare breed unfortunately.

Only in states where the spirit has been crushed out of them by condescending AGs and police, and abusive anti-self-defense laws. It'll take Ohio a decade or two to recover from the its recently-corrected defensive firearm ban.

Kruniac · March 22, 2005, 08:20 PM

In that situation, shoot to... uh... stop. Yeah thats it, stop. Thats the ticket.

In all seriousness, you shoot someone who is robbing a bank. Its a forcible felony - you stopped it. He was threatening the public - you stopped him.

I would rather do time, then sleep knowing someone died because i did nothing.

February 16, 2005, 09:54 AM	#77
Vanguard.45 Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2001 Location: NW Indiana Posts: 277	Order of Operations 1. BANG! BANG! BANG! 2. Go and examine the wounds created by my .45 (curiosity) 3. BANG! (He twitched in the direction of his gun.) 4. Apply for a grant from the Feds claiming that I was "involved" in research concerning ballistics and wounding that would be utilized by the FBI in determining the most effective handgun rounds and in the overall crime statistics. 5. Get a lawyer for the subsequent Wrongful Death lawsuit where I get to hear the "I failed as a mom" complainant describe how her boy was an angel and that it wasn't right how I shot her baby. Nevermind that her other eight kids are all in prison!! Vanguard.45 __________________ "I came into this world with nothin', and I still got most of it."

February 18, 2005, 06:54 PM	#78
abelew Senior Member Join Date: November 29, 2004 Location: Florida Posts: 778	Most bank robbers want $, let them have it, make a good witness. Dont draw attn to yourself unless needed. Being stupid and playing rambo is going to get people killed. Its too bad that in that kind of situation, there aren't any good answers. __________________ "Where the choice is between only violence and cowardice, I would advise violence." ~ Mohatma Gandhi

February 28, 2005, 09:07 PM	#80
9mmsnoopy Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Thrillsville ,Tx Posts: 904	"SO let say you get a clear shot and you talk it, bad guy goes down and everybody is happy. Now comes the detectives and one of the first people they talk to is the clerk who was being robbed. NOW your case hang on what the clerk says. IF they say "he was about to shoot me" all is well, BUT what if they say "all this guy wanted was a few bucks for Christmas and he never had any intention of shooting me, I was not afraid and know he would be on his way, I'm not even sure he had a real gun", guess what happens now. Life as you know it is over." i disagree. Americans are fed up with crime. if a BG has a gun in someones face, you do not know what his intentions are, and you wont untill its too late. if indeed he has a gun pointed at someone and you take him down, i dont think a jury in America would convict you.(criminal or cival) having said that.... i honestly cant say what i would do in that situation. i think the right thing to do would be to put one right in his back and end it right there. hopefully none of us will ever have to find out what we would do. __________________ beretta cx4 storm .40 caliber sig P290 Kahr PM9 Glock 26 Bushmaster AR15

February 28, 2005, 09:12 PM	#81
9mmsnoopy Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Thrillsville ,Tx Posts: 904	this thread reminds me if the pizza parlor incident a couple weeks ago. that guy was getting the crap beat out of him and all those other people just stood there and watched. its rare when someone wants to help out these days. Mr. Wilson in tyler was a rare breed unfortunately. __________________ beretta cx4 storm .40 caliber sig P290 Kahr PM9 Glock 26 Bushmaster AR15

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February 28, 2005, 02:51 PM	#79
Maxprime Member Join Date: February 28, 2005 Posts: 42	I think the majority is in line with my thinking - shoot only if the person warrants it. If the gun is "in his pocket" or anything of the like, screw it. If he starts getting tense and waving the gun around or if it EVER sweeps my direction, double tap. He's holding his gun up to the clerk and you cap him, he accidentally caps the clerk - you've caused a death that might not have happened. It's a tough call, very situation-specific.

March 22, 2005, 08:20 PM	#84
Kruniac Member Join Date: March 22, 2005 Posts: 44	In that situation, shoot to... uh... stop. Yeah thats it, stop. Thats the ticket. In all seriousness, you shoot someone who is robbing a bank. Its a forcible felony - you stopped it. He was threatening the public - you stopped him. I would rather do time, then sleep knowing someone died because i did nothing.