No New Pythons, You Say?

Joe_Pike · January 25, 2016, 10:03 AM

Well, GunsAmerica had a little blurb that hints differently.

"The folks at Colt were blown away (and admittedly surprised) about how much buzz and excitement came from the announcement of the 1903 at last years SHOT Show. We were told that the excitement was so great that the Colt Custom Shop has been told to start building Pythons. That is right, Colt is building Pythons. Apparently there are walls full of original parts, and all of the original tooling is still warehoused. But it is more complicated than just dusting off the old equipment. This is antiquated stuff compared to today’s CNC machines. Also, Pythons were all hand fitted and tuned in a labor-intensive process. Our source said the Custom Shop is working on the Python build now. As of this writing, there is nothing official about the announcement, and no target delivery dates or any information on how many they’ll make. After looking at the 1903, we feel confident in saying they are taking the time to learn how to build them right."

https://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/cla...hot-show-2016/

Venom1956 · January 25, 2016, 10:06 AM

It wont matter it'll either

A. Cost so much no one will buy them, Driving the cost of older LNIB Pythons up even further.

B. Be a inferior to the originals in everyway, Driving the cost of older Pythons up even further.

Joe_Pike · January 25, 2016, 10:18 AM

Quote:

It wont matter it'll either

A. Cost so much no one will buy them, Driving the cost of older LNIB Pythons up even further.

Oh, I don't know. People buy Korth revolvers.

Quote:

B. Be a inferior to the originals in everyway, Driving the cost of older Pythons up even further.

Hard to say without seeing one. I'm not quite sure I buy into the belief that there is no way anyone today could possibly learn how to build a Python.

It doesn't matter to me one way or the other as I am not their target market.

Bob Wright · January 25, 2016, 10:32 AM

Nor am I in their target market. Had my experience with the Python many years ago, and when S&W intorduced their Model 586 L-framed .357 Magnum a few years ago, I went with these and never looked back at the Python.

Don't mean to step on toes here, but I buy guns for shooting, not to look at.

Bob Wright

Jim Watson · January 25, 2016, 10:49 AM

That'll be the day.

A SHOT report said that Signore Pietta himself said the hypothetical P1955 would not be forthcoming.

Don P · January 25, 2016, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Oh, I don't know. People buy Korth revolvers

Yes they do. Now how many Korth revolvers are sold each year?
Python's going back into production is a pipe dream. All the skilled hands that fit the beloved Pythons together are long gone with NO apprentices to take over for them. That era is long gone and just memories and for reading in the history books about firearms.

laytonj1 · January 25, 2016, 11:36 AM

You know, it's not like Pythons are made by elves using magic fairy dust. Their actions required more intensive fitting because of design (a very old design). Nor are they rare requiring many days to assembly as Colt cranked out about half a million of them.
As someone above already mentioned, I found my S&W 586 and 686 to shoot just as accurately as any of the 4 Pythons I've owned.

There is no reason, other than money, that Colt could not start producing them again. They still work on them. The only issue would be cost and a market for them.
Dan Wesson brought back the model 715 and it has a street price of ~$1100.
Great gun but not exactly selling them by the boatloads.

The demand for Pythons is because they are not longer made. Look at the Anaconda and King Cobra. Those were lower cost high production guns and they have sky high prices on them too. It comes down to folks wanting what is no longer made.

If Colt brought the Python back I don't believe there would be a big demand as few will pay that much for what would be a current production gun.

Jim

Kosh75287 · January 25, 2016, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Now how many Korth revolvers are sold each year?

Probably around the same number as that of the highly modified/tricked out slab-barrelled PPC optimized, .38 Spl. WC-only custom revolvers sold each year, for THAT competition.

My intensive if short-lived experiences with the Python left me disappointed. It probably was among the finest revolvers, for slow-fire purposes, I'd ever shot. A toss-up between it and a 6 1/2" S&W M27. But I could never get the Python to shoot well, rapidly. I thought it was just me, but I saw others have the same problem with the same Python, and then heard them remark they'd had the same experience with other Pythons.

If they started making them tomorrow, I doubt I could afford one. If I could afford one, I doubt that I would BUY one. It's a shame, really, because I think they're wonderfully made, beautiful firearms. I just can't justify owning one.

Joe_Pike · January 25, 2016, 12:18 PM

Quote:

You know, it's not like Pythons are made by elves using magic fairy dust.

Exactly. I always get a chuckle when I read that there is no one on earth that could possibly build a Python any more. We can send people into space, we can build a funny car that will run a 1/4 mile in 3.5 seconds, etc., but no one can learn to build and tune a revolver?

reddog81 · January 25, 2016, 12:38 PM

I find it odd that hey would be surprised by the reception of the 1903. Do they even follow the used market at all?

And what does the 1903 have to do with a Python? Python production started a decade after 1903 production ended. You can find a decent 1903 for well under a grand. A half-way decent Python is close to $2,000. A small auto-loader vs a large revolver. It seems like an apples vs oranges comparison. 1903's are not even being produced by Colt.

I find it odd that there are walls full of old parts worth $10,000's of thousands of dollars just laying around. I thought Colt auctioned off a bunch of stuff years ago. Maybe all the old parts were hanging out with the old boxes that TN box guy has found...

Wheelie_Fan · January 25, 2016, 12:55 PM

I had a buddy who was hired by Colt (Pre Ch.11 filing) and was supposed to be part of a team to resurrect some of the revolvers... He and the team had tracked down prints, specs, tooling and the like... significant amounts of it, in fact.

Then he got sidetracked onto different projects, for a number of reasons, prior to their bankruptcy... and was subsequently let go after the filing.

I'm glad to hear DA revolvers are still, maybe, sorta, on their radar. If i recall conversations with my buddy, the Python was NOT on the list of the initial revolvers planned to make it to market, but perhaps that has changed. (i want to say the King Cobra and Anaconda were the ones being looked at)

I'll be interested to see what DPris may have to say on this as he seems to be plugged into some of the goings on over at Colt and has called shenanigans on reports of this type in the past. Now that Colt is out of Ch. 11 and with (hopefully) sufficient financing in place, maybe they're giving it a go...

Either way... good luck to Colt, I think they've got a long road ahead of them to turn things around, but truly hope for their long term success.

PS - looking at the Colt website, they don't list the 1903 - it appears that US Armament Corp has licensed the design from Colt...

**Tom Servo** · January 25, 2016, 01:21 PM

The big question is, "will they make parts widely available again?"

Right now, finding replacement parts is all but impossible.

dgludwig · January 25, 2016, 02:12 PM

QUOTE "...Either way... good luck to Colt, I think they've got a long road ahead of them to turn things around, but truly hope for their long term success..."

My best wishes too. My advice to Colt looking for success in a shorter term would be to reintroduce the Cobra/Agent snub nose revolver variants. In this age of concealed carry, I'm pretty sure a J-frame sized revolver, weighing 16 ounces and carrying six shots, would attract more than a few buyers.

buck460XVR · January 25, 2016, 02:32 PM

Quote:

The big question is, "will they make parts widely available again?"

Right now, finding replacement parts is all but impossible.

This is what my local gunsmith tells me, which is why I was surprised to hear there were "walls and walls" full of spare parts, just laying around at Colt. Seems the demand for the old parts would supersede holding on to them "just in case". Besides, if Colt brings back the Python it will be with CNC and MIM. They already use them in the production of their 1911s. Why would they not use the same modern processes for a new revolver in attempt to make them affordable. That in itself would make those "walls" of old parts obsolete for new production.

DPris · January 25, 2016, 02:52 PM

Pure BS.
Denis

Tuxedo007 · January 25, 2016, 03:44 PM

While I still own my Pythons, none of them is a "safe queen". They still are shot & taken care of, just like the Smiths I have.

However, the design of the action in the old "I" frame Colt was labor intensive to tune & get it right. IF Colt builds the Python again, the product will be very expensive if built in Hartford!

I will wait & see the result...however, wouldn't be surprised to see MIM parts in the action as well as other "modernizations" which would cause someone like the late Fred Sadowski of "300 Gun Shop"(I think that is the correct name of his shop) to ponder whether or not the "modern Python" is the equal of the original. Also if the potential exists to tune the action as he did in the original.

Fred built me a Python & a Model 19 S&W; both with his full house action jobs, bull barrels, Bo-Mar sights on the S&W, etc. Both were wonderful revolvers & held tight groups all the way out to the 50 yd line!

However, there was no way the S&W action was even close to the action he could put into the Colts! Just the difference in the original designs of the 2 revolvers.

James K · January 25, 2016, 04:10 PM

Hi, Tuxedo007,

"Just the difference in the original designs of the 2 revolvers."

Yes, but not the way you mean. The S&W action is far superior mechanically to the Colt action; the hand work and tuning given the Python (and your Cobra) alleviated the problems but never really corrected them. The new action was better, but was too little and too late.

As to stories about walls of new old stock parts and rooms full of original machines and tooling, I agree with Denis.

Jim

DPris · January 25, 2016, 04:11 PM

That info is so wrong on so many counts it's laughable.
Not to mention a cruel joke on anybody still holding out hope for a Python re-birth.

One facet is that IF it were ONLY a Custom Shop gun (ignoring all the other problems with the idea), it could not possibly be affordable to enough buyers to pay Colt back for the investment.

And Colt does not have "walls full of parts" just sitting around for the gun.
Denis

SaxonPig · January 25, 2016, 04:17 PM

Nobody knows until it happens. I suspect they can make a new Python of good quality for $1,400 or so and I think at that level they sell. Not like a 1911, but I think they can sell enough to make it profitable. They sell every $1400 SAA they care to make. But like I said, we don't know until they try it.

jglsprings · January 25, 2016, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Nor am I in their target market. Had my experience with the Python many years ago, and when S&W intorduced their Model 586 L-framed .357 Magnum a few years ago, I went with these and never looked back at the Python.

Don't mean to step on toes here, but I buy guns for shooting, not to look at.

Bob Wright

Pretty tough talk for a guy with such a beautiful collection of single actions...

Just kidding there Bob, I agree with you...

DPris · January 25, 2016, 04:47 PM

Saxon,
Not to further belabor the dead horse, but Colt themselves have said they could not sell a new Python for anywhere near $1400.

This is the exact opposite of the thread a poster on a Colt forum started in reporting what he was told at the Colt Booth at the SHOT Show.
He says a Colt rep told him there that Colt would never again produce a DA revolver & would be in bankruptcy again very shortly from managerial incompetence.

I don't know where all this horse puckey's coming from, but if any of it truly IS originating with the Colt booth (not all of whose "reps" are actually permanent Colt employees), somebody's having a great time screwing with people.

Denis

spacecoast · January 25, 2016, 05:39 PM

Colt may have been blown away by the reaction to the 1903 announcement, but my understanding is that the resulting guns are a bit underwhelming. Undoubtedly that would also be the case with a resurrected Python.

mete · January 25, 2016, 05:56 PM

All dreams!
Guns earlier than Python but with same lock work were often better than later Pythons.Workers today are not interested in the time needed to become Python quality workers .
Buyers want exactly the quality and same internal design. Regardless of new techniques like CNC or MIM.
And the bean counters want the same profits or better.
Buy the best gun you can find then have a good 'smith work it over like my tuned M29 !

Buzzard Bait · January 25, 2016, 06:03 PM

Hmm what's a real clean or nearly mint python bring in todays market and money?

still kick my self when I think about how I could have bought one back in the day

gyvel · January 25, 2016, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Their actions required more intensive fitting because of design (a very old design).

I hear this time and time again. How is the Python action any different than an Official Police, Trooper, Police Positive, Detective Special, Cobra, Courier, Pocket Positive, et. al?

I've never found Colt actions to be particularly hard to work on, and right now, I'm working on a couple of bags of parts that will eventually become Colt Commandos.

What the Python entailed was a little extra polish work to make the action smooth, but to be honest, the smoothest action I have ever felt on a Colt was an early Colt .357; It put any Python I've handled to shame.

January 25, 2016, 10:03 AM	#1
Joe_Pike Senior Member Join Date: December 30, 2010 Posts: 1,581	No New Pythons, You Say? Well, GunsAmerica had a little blurb that hints differently. "The folks at Colt were blown away (and admittedly surprised) about how much buzz and excitement came from the announcement of the 1903 at last years SHOT Show. We were told that the excitement was so great that the Colt Custom Shop has been told to start building Pythons. That is right, Colt is building Pythons. Apparently there are walls full of original parts, and all of the original tooling is still warehoused. But it is more complicated than just dusting off the old equipment. This is antiquated stuff compared to today’s CNC machines. Also, Pythons were all hand fitted and tuned in a labor-intensive process. Our source said the Custom Shop is working on the Python build now. As of this writing, there is nothing official about the announcement, and no target delivery dates or any information on how many they’ll make. After looking at the 1903, we feel confident in saying they are taking the time to learn how to build them right." https://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/cla...hot-show-2016/ __________________ Stay Groovy

January 25, 2016, 10:06 AM	#2
Venom1956 Senior Member Join Date: October 4, 2008 Location: WI Posts: 3,656	It wont matter it'll either A. Cost so much no one will buy them, Driving the cost of older LNIB Pythons up even further. B. Be a inferior to the originals in everyway, Driving the cost of older Pythons up even further. __________________ E-Shock rounds are engineered to expend maximum energy into soft targets, turning the density mass into an expanding rotational cone of NyTrilium matrix particles, causing neurological collapse to the central nervous system.- Yeah I can do that. I guarantee you will know it if a bicyclist hits your house going 1000 mph. -Smaug

January 25, 2016, 10:32 AM	#4
Bob Wright Senior Member Join Date: July 10, 2012 Location: Memphis, Tennessee Posts: 2,989	Nor am I in their target market. Had my experience with the Python many years ago, and when S&W intorduced their Model 586 L-framed .357 Magnum a few years ago, I went with these and never looked back at the Python. Don't mean to step on toes here, but I buy guns for shooting, not to look at. Bob Wright __________________ Time spent at the reloading bench is an investment in contentment.

January 25, 2016, 12:55 PM	#11
Wheelie_Fan Senior Member Join Date: November 27, 2009 Location: CT Posts: 117	I had a buddy who was hired by Colt (Pre Ch.11 filing) and was supposed to be part of a team to resurrect some of the revolvers... He and the team had tracked down prints, specs, tooling and the like... significant amounts of it, in fact. Then he got sidetracked onto different projects, for a number of reasons, prior to their bankruptcy... and was subsequently let go after the filing. I'm glad to hear DA revolvers are still, maybe, sorta, on their radar. If i recall conversations with my buddy, the Python was NOT on the list of the initial revolvers planned to make it to market, but perhaps that has changed. (i want to say the King Cobra and Anaconda were the ones being looked at) I'll be interested to see what DPris may have to say on this as he seems to be plugged into some of the goings on over at Colt and has called shenanigans on reports of this type in the past. Now that Colt is out of Ch. 11 and with (hopefully) sufficient financing in place, maybe they're giving it a go... Either way... good luck to Colt, I think they've got a long road ahead of them to turn things around, but truly hope for their long term success. PS - looking at the Colt website, they don't list the 1903 - it appears that US Armament Corp has licensed the design from Colt... Last edited by Wheelie_Fan; January 25, 2016 at 01:01 PM.

January 25, 2016, 01:21 PM	#12
Tom Servo Staff Join Date: September 27, 2008 Location: Foothills of the Appalachians Posts: 13,059	The big question is, "will they make parts widely available again?" Right now, finding replacement parts is all but impossible. __________________ Sometimes it’s nice not to destroy the world for a change. --Randall Munroe

January 25, 2016, 10:49 AM	#5
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,546	That'll be the day. A SHOT report said that Signore Pietta himself said the hypothetical P1955 would not be forthcoming.

January 25, 2016, 11:36 AM	#7
laytonj1 Senior Member Join Date: June 1, 2005 Posts: 4,443	You know, it's not like Pythons are made by elves using magic fairy dust. Their actions required more intensive fitting because of design (a very old design). Nor are they rare requiring many days to assembly as Colt cranked out about half a million of them. As someone above already mentioned, I found my S&W 586 and 686 to shoot just as accurately as any of the 4 Pythons I've owned. There is no reason, other than money, that Colt could not start producing them again. They still work on them. The only issue would be cost and a market for them. Dan Wesson brought back the model 715 and it has a street price of ~$1100. Great gun but not exactly selling them by the boatloads. The demand for Pythons is because they are not longer made. Look at the Anaconda and King Cobra. Those were lower cost high production guns and they have sky high prices on them too. It comes down to folks wanting what is no longer made. If Colt brought the Python back I don't believe there would be a big demand as few will pay that much for what would be a current production gun. Jim

January 25, 2016, 12:38 PM	#10
reddog81 Senior Member Join Date: October 16, 2014 Location: Iowa Posts: 1,635	I find it odd that hey would be surprised by the reception of the 1903. Do they even follow the used market at all? And what does the 1903 have to do with a Python? Python production started a decade after 1903 production ended. You can find a decent 1903 for well under a grand. A half-way decent Python is close to $2,000. A small auto-loader vs a large revolver. It seems like an apples vs oranges comparison. 1903's are not even being produced by Colt. I find it odd that there are walls full of old parts worth $10,000's of thousands of dollars just laying around. I thought Colt auctioned off a bunch of stuff years ago. Maybe all the old parts were hanging out with the old boxes that TN box guy has found...

January 25, 2016, 02:12 PM	#13
dgludwig Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2005 Location: North central Ohio Posts: 7,486	QUOTE "...Either way... good luck to Colt, I think they've got a long road ahead of them to turn things around, but truly hope for their long term success..." My best wishes too. My advice to Colt looking for success in a shorter term would be to reintroduce the Cobra/Agent snub nose revolver variants. In this age of concealed carry, I'm pretty sure a J-frame sized revolver, weighing 16 ounces and carrying six shots, would attract more than a few buyers. __________________ ONLY AN ARMED PEOPLE CAN BE TRULY FREE ; ONLY AN UNARMED PEOPLE CAN EVER BE ENSLAVED ...Aristotle NRA Benefactor Life Member

January 25, 2016, 02:52 PM	#15
DPris Member Emeritus Join Date: August 19, 2004 Posts: 7,133	Pure BS. Denis

January 25, 2016, 03:44 PM	#16
Tuxedo007 Junior Member Join Date: January 28, 2015 Posts: 8	No New Pythons While I still own my Pythons, none of them is a "safe queen". They still are shot & taken care of, just like the Smiths I have. However, the design of the action in the old "I" frame Colt was labor intensive to tune & get it right. IF Colt builds the Python again, the product will be very expensive if built in Hartford! I will wait & see the result...however, wouldn't be surprised to see MIM parts in the action as well as other "modernizations" which would cause someone like the late Fred Sadowski of "300 Gun Shop"(I think that is the correct name of his shop) to ponder whether or not the "modern Python" is the equal of the original. Also if the potential exists to tune the action as he did in the original. Fred built me a Python & a Model 19 S&W; both with his full house action jobs, bull barrels, Bo-Mar sights on the S&W, etc. Both were wonderful revolvers & held tight groups all the way out to the 50 yd line! However, there was no way the S&W action was even close to the action he could put into the Colts! Just the difference in the original designs of the 2 revolvers.

January 25, 2016, 04:10 PM	#17
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Hi, Tuxedo007, "Just the difference in the original designs of the 2 revolvers." Yes, but not the way you mean. The S&W action is far superior mechanically to the Colt action; the hand work and tuning given the Python (and your Cobra) alleviated the problems but never really corrected them. The new action was better, but was too little and too late. As to stories about walls of new old stock parts and rooms full of original machines and tooling, I agree with Denis. Jim

January 25, 2016, 04:11 PM	#18
DPris Member Emeritus Join Date: August 19, 2004 Posts: 7,133	That info is so wrong on so many counts it's laughable. Not to mention a cruel joke on anybody still holding out hope for a Python re-birth. One facet is that IF it were ONLY a Custom Shop gun (ignoring all the other problems with the idea), it could not possibly be affordable to enough buyers to pay Colt back for the investment. And Colt does not have "walls full of parts" just sitting around for the gun. Denis

January 25, 2016, 04:17 PM	#19
SaxonPig Senior Member Join Date: April 24, 2006 Posts: 1,900	Nobody knows until it happens. I suspect they can make a new Python of good quality for $1,400 or so and I think at that level they sell. Not like a 1911, but I think they can sell enough to make it profitable. They sell every $1400 SAA they care to make. But like I said, we don't know until they try it.

January 25, 2016, 04:47 PM	#21
DPris Member Emeritus Join Date: August 19, 2004 Posts: 7,133	Saxon, Not to further belabor the dead horse, but Colt themselves have said they could not sell a new Python for anywhere near $1400. This is the exact opposite of the thread a poster on a Colt forum started in reporting what he was told at the Colt Booth at the SHOT Show. He says a Colt rep told him there that Colt would never again produce a DA revolver & would be in bankruptcy again very shortly from managerial incompetence. I don't know where all this horse puckey's coming from, but if any of it truly IS originating with the Colt booth (not all of whose "reps" are actually permanent Colt employees), somebody's having a great time screwing with people. Denis

January 25, 2016, 05:39 PM	#22
spacecoast Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2009 Location: Sunshine and Keystone States Posts: 4,461	Colt may have been blown away by the reaction to the 1903 announcement, but my understanding is that the resulting guns are a bit underwhelming. Undoubtedly that would also be the case with a resurrected Python.

January 25, 2016, 05:56 PM	#23
mete Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2004 Location: NY State Posts: 6,575	All dreams! Guns earlier than Python but with same lock work were often better than later Pythons.Workers today are not interested in the time needed to become Python quality workers . Buyers want exactly the quality and same internal design. Regardless of new techniques like CNC or MIM. And the bean counters want the same profits or better. Buy the best gun you can find then have a good 'smith work it over like my tuned M29 ! __________________ And Watson , bring your revolver !

January 25, 2016, 06:03 PM	#24
Buzzard Bait Senior Member Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Republic of Texas Posts: 502	could of should of Hmm what's a real clean or nearly mint python bring in todays market and money? still kick my self when I think about how I could have bought one back in the day