My initial frustrating Burris customer service experience

[Road_Clam]

Well sit back cause this is long
I generally don't rant but I have a feeling I am going to end up getting shafted on this situation, at least based upon the way things are starting out.

I've been researching handgun scopes now for a several weeks for my
.460XVR mag. I needed something tough , and with a minimum of 8x (I have very poor eyes). There was basically only 2 choices. The Leupold 2.5x8 (which is nowhere in stock, and none are expected in until late April , and the Burris 3-12x which is available. I was warned that there has been some issues with the Burris' lack of strength to be able to withstand the 460's brutal recoil, so before committing to a purchase I emailed Burris tech support asking this very question. I received a quick reply " The scope will be able to handle the recoil of the .460 mag. We recoil test all of our optics up to a .50 BMG." . Well that seemed pretty convincing enough. So I bought a new Burris off Ebay for $430. I get the scope get it mounted using rock solid Warne steel tactical rings, laser bore sight the scope, and the factory settings are almost perfect. I get to the range and fire about 3 shots @ 50 yds... nowhere on paper ? OK so I send more shots and I realize I'm hitting about 16" low ?? That's really odd I should have been close. So I begin dialing up my elevation and my POI is not coming up consistiantly, after about 20 clicks of elevation I realize the elevation adjustments are not working. I'm maxed out on elevation and my poi is still about 8" low at 50 yds. Now I'm frustrated. Should have listend the the experts and got the Leupold.... So today I try to contact Burris via telephone twice I was on permahold for over 10 min. So I send an email to the original customer rep I dealt with explaining calmly my frustrating issue:

"We will be glad to take a look at your scope. Attached is the Repair form. Please print and fill it out. The address to send your optic to is on the bottom of the form.



Please be advised. We currently have a 6-8 week turn around time on all repairs.

Thank You, "

So lucky me, I just spent $440 on a brand new scope that lasted 16 rounds, and now I won't see it back for over 2 months. Obviously Burris repair center has a LOT of busted scopes to repair. Maybe in defense of Burris this will all turn out ok so I'm not going to continuously bash, but as of now the way things are starting out, I have ZERO confidence in Burris optics. I'll let all of you draw your own conclusions if you are thinking about Burris optics. I will certainly post follow ups as I get the facts on what happened to my scope.

[Nathan]

Doesn't sound great.

So, I think that is a stock answer. I would call in 2 weeks to follow up.

Now, did it break...can the reticle be adjusted?

Simply stated....if your scope is more than 8" off POA at 25 yds, it would be an excellent guess that the mount is broke.

That comes from math. All calibers shoot like a laser to 25 yds. A scope reasonably centered is pointed straight at the target. If the mount is square, you should have POI 1-2" below POA. Now, if you are off more that 7", I have to ask how. A basic scope has about 60 MOA of adjustment....30 MOA on the half....divide by 4 since 1 MOA = .25" at 25 yds.

Again, since scopes come reasonably centered, I would be worried at 4" off POA.

In a nutshell. I'm a little worried about your mount or pistol...do you have another scope to try?

[Road_Clam]

Originally Posted by Nathan

Doesn't sound great.

So, I think that is a stock answer. I would call in 2 weeks to follow up.

Now, did it break...can the reticle be adjusted?

Simply stated....if your scope is more than 8" off POA at 25 yds, it would be an excellent guess that the mount is broke.

That comes from math. All calibers shoot like a laser to 25 yds. A scope reasonably centered is pointed straight at the target. If the mount is square, you should have POI 1-2" below POA. Now, if you are off more that 7", I have to ask how. A basic scope has about 60 MOA of adjustment....30 MOA on the half....divide by 4 since 1 MOA = .25" at 25 yds.

Again, since scopes come reasonably centered, I would be worried at 4" off POA.

In a nutshell. I'm a little worried about your mount or pistol...do you have another scope to try?

Nathan there is NO way my mount broke. My 12" .460 XVR uses a cast in integral pictinny rail , and I used top of the line Warne tactical steel rings. All fasteners were locked down tight when I disassembled and removed the scope last night. Believe me I wish I could blame my stupidity as I sometimes I am just that, but from my observance and my facts, seems my brand new scope had the internals trashed from recoil. Just have to wait and see what Burris finds. Thank god for a "no questions asked" warranty. I just fear that this will be an ongoing issue...

[Magnum Wheel Man]

I have more than a dozen Burris scopes... ( & have had, for 20 years ) & finally have a posi lock 4-16X, on my 338 Win Mag, that has fogged over... so that will be going back...this will be the 1st Burris out of over a dozen in 20 years that's ever had to go back, so I don't honestly know how their customer service rates...

I have Burris scopes on my 45-70 & 375 Winchester Contender pistols ( probably on the same level of recoil as your 460 ) & haven't had a problem yet... both of those have been in use for probably over 15 years ( of course the level of shooting, & the quality of the scope when new, could vary a lot in 15 years )... hoping your experience turns out OK...

BTW... I think there has been a bunch of Encore 460's that have been having shooting issues lately ( S&W now makes the Thompson Center guns ) perhaps they are having issues with their barrels ???

I don't remember from your other thread, does your revolver have iron sights??? if so, does it shoot to point of aim with them???

BTW... I think you may have gone too strong on your power with the scope... my highest power handgun scope is a Burris 3-9X & shooting a handgun scope on 9X is quite challenging...I don't have any bipods on my Contenders, but do shoot off sand bags regularly... I expect that 12X is going to be frustrating trying to use on a handgun...

[Road_Clam]

Originally Posted by Magnum Wheel Man

I have more than a dozen Burris scopes... ( & have had, for 20 years ) & finally have a posi lock 4-16X, on my 338 Win Mag, that has fogged over... so that will be going back...this will be the 1st Burris out of over a dozen in 20 years that's ever had to go back, so I don't honestly know how their customer service rates...

I have Burris scopes on my 45-70 & 375 Winchester Contender pistols ( probably on the same level of recoil as your 460 ) & haven't had a problem yet... both of those have been in use for probably over 15 years ( of course the level of shooting, & the quality of the scope when new, could vary a lot in 15 years )... hoping your experience turns out OK...

BTW... I think there has been a bunch of Encore 460's that have been having shooting issues lately ( S&W now makes the Thompson Center guns ) perhaps they are having issues with their barrels ???

I don't remember from your other thread, does your revolver have iron sights??? if so, does it shoot to point of aim with them???

BTW... I think you may have gone too strong on your power with the scope... my highest power handgun scope is a Burris 3-9X & shooting a handgun scope on 9X is quite challenging...I don't have any bipods on my Contenders, but do shoot off sand bags regularly... I expect that 12X is going to be frustrating trying to use on a handgun...

Thanks for your input, and it's encouraging that you have had positive experiences with Burris, and I hope your right, it's very possible that my scope failure was just randomly my typical crappy luck. I'ts just the fact that other 460XVR owners commented that there has been some info on recoil related failures on this exact scope mounted to the 460's. As for the 12x power. I plan on shooting off a rest and bipod out to 200 meters, and with my very poor eyesight I need higher powered optics than the average shooter. I know for a fact I need more the the traditional 8x to comfortably aquire my targets at 200 meters. I did mess around a bit with max power dialed and yes you are correct it takes a very stead rest and moving your head around to aquire a full sight picture, but I understand this tradeoff. As for my 460's sights the factory irons are adjusted dead balls POI using factory Hornady 200gr ftx's at about 2200 fps so I'm confident it's not a barrel issue. Actually taking it back to the range today to re sight in the iron sights. (I had to remove the rear adj sight assembly for eyepiece clearance with the scope. )

[Nathan]

The scope could be broke, did you try it on another gun?

Did it shoot 1 like 2" low and the rest 16" low...like it broke?

I was just saying a new unbroken scope really can't be that far off...I can't say the rings or rail are bad...just thinking about options.

Without proving the scope is bad to yourself, I always fear warranty service may disappoint...

[buck460XVR]

From experience, I would have assumed that because of dwell time and recoil, your shots would have been high after just bore sighting the big hand cannon. The fact that not even your first shot was on paper tends to make me wonder if the scope is really broke, or because of how it's mounted, there's not enough elevation adjustment.

[Road_Clam]

buck460xvr,
I shot my 460 today with just iron sights and it took me about 10 shots to get the sights adjusted and the pistol shoots perfect, so this rules out any type of mechanical misalignment issue. I think what I will do before I send the scope back to Burris is bolt the scope back on to my 460 and use the laser bore sight again and see where exactly the cross hairs are with respect to the laser dot. initially the factory scope adjustments were almost perfect putting the dot at the center of the cross hair at a 45 foot distance. Maybe even re-center the scope elevation and try sighting in again just to verify.

[buck460XVR]

Just because the irons adjusted POI to POA, doesn't mean the scope was aligned properly when mounted. My statement about the first shot was.......if the recoil from the gun broke the scope, you had to shoot the gun at least once to do it. That means if the scope was properly mounted and bore sighted, the first shot should have been close as the scope had not yet suffered any recoil and should have not yet been "broke".(even tho 50 yards is a long ways with a handgun to see if the scope is on paper). So, IMHO, either the scope was defective from the factory, the scope wad improperly mounted so there was not enough adjustment in elevation, or the scope was damaged when mounted. Did you use any type of alignment bars with the rings first?

[Road_Clam]

Originally Posted by buck460xvr

Just because the irons adjusted POI to POA, doesn't mean the scope was aligned properly when mounted. My statement about the first shot was.......if the recoil from the gun broke the scope, you had to shoot the gun at least once to do it. That means if the scope was properly mounted and bore sighted, the first shot should have been close as the scope had not yet suffered any recoil and should have not yet been "broke".(even tho 50 yards is a long ways with a handgun to see if the scope is on paper). So, IMHO, either the scope was defective from the factory, the scope wad improperly mounted so there was not enough adjustment in elevation, or the scope was damaged when mounted. Did you use any type of alignment bars with the rings first?

OK, now I more understand your point. My crude method of sighting in a firearm is to vertically string 3 paper plates with 1" dots in the centers. So a paper plate being only about 8" in diameter there was a good chance my 1st shot was close but just off the paper plate, then the consecutive shots jarred and broke the scope internals. In hindsight i'll do an initial 25 yd sight in first and use a bigger sheet of paper to verify my first shots. As for an "alignment bar" no, The Warne tactical rings by design need to be partially assembled to both the scope and the rail at the same time. I don't think you can use any type of alignment tool with this type of ring. Again I plan on doing some alternate testing. I have a Ruger MKIII .22 pistol and I think I will try the scope on that and see how the scope functions.

[Erno86]

Did you benchrest the pistol while sighting in the scope?

Nikon pistol scopes, are known to handle recoil very well.

[Road_Clam]

Originally Posted by Erno86

Did you benchrest the pistol while sighting in the scope?

Yes. I used my custom fabbed rifle rest

[Nathan]

You can use these with Warne rings:

[Road_Clam]

So an update, I bolted the scope back on to my 460 and installed the laser bore sight, and with the elevation maxed out as I left it from prior shooting the dot was about 4" high and anf 1" left at 45 feet. I also reset the elevation to it's midpoint and now the dot is pretty close to cross hair center. So now I am confused as to what's going on the scope seems to be functioning as it should. I also realized that this scope uses 1/8 moa adjustments, and has a total of 28" @ 100 yds of elevation adjustment. I'm still having a very hard time believing it's mount related but it's looking like that might be the cause. Back to the range for a sight in and i'll update my findings.

[Road_Clam]

Range update :

I don't know what to make of this. I went back to my range today and to my non-belief the scope functioned correctly and seems to hold a zero no problem ! I used the same exact method of mounting the scope reset all the adjustments to approx. mid way. My first shot was just off my paper plate at about 4 oclock so I'm about 4.5" low and 3" right @ 25 yds. So I start adjusting and this time my shots kept moving in sync with my scope adjustments. So it took about 12 shots to zero. Next I move to 100 yds and fired a shot, poi was only about 2" low and 1" right ! (pretty impressive flat trajectory for a 200 gr bullet !) . So a few more clicks and I had my 100 yd zero. Scope seems to be functioning and maintaining zero ok now. Something must have been loose the last time I went out I just can't figure out what and why. This really bugs me when I can't come up with a logical answer to a major issue. The Burris is a great scope, but the eye relief is kinda short so you can only be about 14" behind the optics and having your face that close to the 460 you get blasted pretty good with combustion and you have to hold on tight or you could get smacked in the face from recoil. I still may buy a Lupold 2.5-8 and use my Burris as a scout scope on my Mosin Nagant rifle. The target in the pic was shot at 100 yds. Shooting at that distance with a pistol is very challenging. You flinch even the slightest and your off paper...

[CowTowner]

Gremlins