Old Rem 700 trigger problem . - Page 2

Metal god · February 7, 2014, 11:49 PM

Hey just installed the new trigger . It's a timney 510 and WOW very cool . I have it set at 2-1/4lbs . It's nice and crisp with no creep . It past all the function test including banging the butt stock on the ground with it cocked . Next test will be at the range .

The old trigger was SO dirty it's not even funny . That had to be the problem .

My new SR45 gets out of jail on Friday so I'll be going to the range Friday for sure . We'll bring the 700 and see how she does .

Anything you guys want to add or make sure I've done or will do is welcome

Thanks Metal

**44 AMP** · February 8, 2014, 01:29 AM

Quote:

The old trigger was SO dirty it's not even funny . That had to be the problem .

And there you go. I believe that the Rem trigger got a bad rap. Unlike the triggers derived from military bolt guns (intended to keep working even if full of mud, etc) the Remington trigger assembly needs some attention (cleaning) once in a while, to ensure it stays working properly.

The fact that large numbers of owners don't know this, and that the rifles can often go years or even decades of normal use without any issues from not cleaning the trigger only makes it seem worse when it does have a problem.

Rightly or wrongly, the fact that you actually have to care for it from time to time to ensure it works properly has been deem a design flaw. Or so it seems to me.

mxsailor803 · February 8, 2014, 05:42 PM

Glad ya'll liked the Timney. I've got several rifles that have them and have zero complaints about them. Enjoy your range trip.

davem · February 10, 2014, 04:25 PM

A couple of things to talk about. The Remington Manual clearly states you need to keep the trigger clean. The trigger is pretty exposed so cleaning is a must and you need to clean without remaining residue- that's why I ask about the brake cleaner because brake cleaner is not supposed to leave a residue. Remington says a trigger with too much oil left can gum up the works and be dangerous (fire accidentally as I interprete that).
1. Of those of you that clean the trigger area- how do you do it?
2. The safety. When the safety is engaged it lifts the sear quite a bit ABOVE the trigger so if you pull the trigger with the safety on the sear is so high as to not catch on that free floating connector that is between trigger and sear when you let go of the trigger and it returns back under the sear. So make sure the safety is turned all the way on. The later models also allow you to take a round out of the chamber with the safety on. Any earlier model where you have to take the safety off to unload should be changed IMHO.
3. One of the sites on the net speaks of a guy that when to Africa, the weather was very hot and when he chambered a round the gun fired and he figured the change in temperature was the cause. If so- that doesn't have (I think) anything to do with the Walker trigger's connector. I think it might have with any trigger where sear engagement was reduced. SO....
What do some of you think about testing the rifle when in a new location. Say you go to Africa. While in camp, slam the bolt (unloaded) several times to insure the trigger is holding.

jmr40 · February 10, 2014, 05:00 PM

There are multiple problems with the Remington/Walker trigger.

It is true that many problems are caused by a dirty trigger mechanism, but that is also a design problem. It is impossible to properly inspect and clean a Remington trigger and it takes far less dirt to foul one than any other design.

The trigger connector is an un needed part that just makes the trigger more complex than necessary. There have been multiple examples of brand new guns firing with no trigger pull because the trigger connector failed. The problem was detected 60 years ago and is far more common than a lot want to admit.

There are lots of examples of folks who had no business working on triggers and making them dangerous. This is true of any gun, but it seems that the problem is far more common with Remingtons.

The simple truth is that for whatever reason Remington triggers fail at a far greater rate than any other design.

alan · February 10, 2014, 05:24 PM

I have a Remington 40X, their Rangemaster rifle, .308Win. I've had this rifle since 1972, used to shoot it in High Power Competition. I do not recall having any problems with the original trigger, which along the road was changed out, replaced with a Canjar trigger. Never had a problem with that one either. The 40X was an extremely accurate rifle.

Improper trigger "adjustment" can and has caused problems in more than one rifle, pistols too.

flashhole · February 10, 2014, 06:08 PM

Why would Remmington stay with a trigger design if it were faulty?

Metal god · February 10, 2014, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Why would Remington stay with a trigger design if it were faulty?

It's not . I think jmr40 hit it right on the head .

Quote:

It is impossible to properly inspect and clean a Remington trigger and it takes far less dirt to foul one than any other design.

There are many MANY things in life that needs to be kept very clean and needs constant maintenance to keep it working right or it will fail . The trigger in my firearm should not be one of those things IMO. I'm no gunsmith I don't want to have to make sure it's perfect or it will fire when I'm not looking .

Like I said before , If it's going to fail it should not fire at all . This is a life and death thing not a oh to bad just stripped another bolt thing .

FWIW the trigger as far as I could tell had not been worked on . All the epoxy was still covering all the screws and holes . I took pictures I'm just having a hard time uploading them since Imageshack changed .

davem · February 11, 2014, 10:55 AM

Flash hole- it had to do with obtaining a patent. The design was already in existence with the top of the trigger against the sear (Like the Timney) so Remington re-designed with the connector which they claimed had some type of benefit. Walker- the guy that designed the trigger wanted the safety to also lock the trigger but even then the connector was un-necessary- purely a way to have a patent for the trigger. I think a patent is good for 17 years plus another 17 (34) so why Remington didn't immediately change things after the 34 years- I don't know.
So...I have a Remington I want to improve. Pillar bed, etc. I think I'll leave a new trigger for last, pillar bed, work up the best reloads, set the Remington trigger to 3 1/2 and see how everything is working and if the gun is accurate, then buy the Timney for safety and an even better trigger.
And...let's not have a panic attack on this one. As has been said, there are 5 million sold. There appears to be a design flaw that shouldn't be an issue if one doesn't overly rely on the safety.
On a Timney- are there similar issues- that is- if you set at 2 1/4 pounds and do all the tests- will the trigger normally hold or will it discharge and require more sear engagement, etc?

flashhole · February 11, 2014, 11:37 AM

So one might legitimately challenge a design flaw vs. manufacturing defects for the assembly.

**44 AMP** · February 11, 2014, 09:05 PM

A design flaw is when, assembled run as designed, the mechanism fails to operate properly, or damages itself during operation.

Something that isn't what you think it ought to be isn't a design flaw, its an opinion.

There are lots of things I consider less than optimal, or even downright stupid. And I am often at a lack when it comes to understanding why the designers did it that way. But the fact that it IS done that way (no matter what "it" is) means they intended to do it that way. That's not a flaw.

The curmudgeon in me is getting fed up with the common usage of "design flaw".

Things that work are not "flawed" because someone figured out how to do it better.

Lemmon · February 11, 2014, 11:06 PM

In my youth when my eyesight was good I was able to rework three or four Rem 700's triggers. The last one I really goofed and distroyed the factory trigger. I bought a Timney trigger which solved my problem. I love the Rem 700's.

Lemmon from Rural South Carolina..... sitting at home nice and warm while outside has Sleet and frozen rain tonight..... watching the Olympics....

davem · February 12, 2014, 11:27 AM

Well if I am wrong then please correct me but as I understand it, in order to obtain a patent, Remington had to come up with a design of their own so they added the free floating connector. I am getting this information from several different websites. There is no purpose to this connector. To eliminate the problem you can epoxy glue the connector to the trigger- then it cannot catch on the sear or get dirt accumulated between connector and trigger. The only problem with the epoxy glue method is a competent gunsmith needs to check all the angles and by the time you do all that- for the same cost you can put in a Timney that is better polished and designed to operate at lower trigger pull. As I understand it, even when the conector is epoxy glued- you still can't drop the trigger pull below 3 lbs.
The connector getting snagged on the sear- that's a problem where someone is pulling the trigger on a loaded chamber- on safety and when the safety is turned off the gun immediately fires. That's not the only issue, if the area is dirty and dirt gets between the conector and trigger- it moves the conector forward- that's when the gun fires immediately as you chamber a round and close the bolt. These are not manufacturing flaws. To me a manufacturing flaw is a good design but the tooling was poor- rounded sear engagements, etc. A design flaw is a flaw that can occur because of the design even when the manufacturing of the parts is perfect.
As I said, I'm not going to have a nervous breakdown on this issue. You need to simply be aware of the problem and inspect the trigger area and keep it clean and free of excess oil (The manual I got with the rifle clearly states this) that could attract dirt/grit and you need to be aware that the muzzle should always be pointed in a safe direction.
On the safety, The safety locks the firing pin so there isn't a problem with the safety- per say- its an issue of sear engagement that can change due to the free floating connector.
But, that's how I understand it- if I am wrong- help me out on this one. And, as I said, with 5 million sold and just a handful of mishaps- not a big issue- just something to be aware of.

alan · February 12, 2014, 07:45 PM

The following might well be off-point, my apologies but I always thought that the factory trigger that Winchester used on their Model 70 rifles from their onset til quite recently, was design magic.

Granted, they might need a little work, knocking off burrs, polishing metal, not removing much and not changing angles, but they might be set/worked on once, and then forgotten.

I had Model 70 Target Rifles, where the trigger was smoothed out and set one time. I had more than one of them so treated, where the rifle had been re-barreled multiple times, the trigger adjusted just once.

As I recall, the TOTAL number of parts involved, including a large headed pin that attached the trigger to the action did not exceed 8. That factory trigger was an example of first rate design, in my opinion.

I had a Remington 40X Rangemaster Rifle , the accuracy of which out to 600 yards left nothing to be desired. I could not shoot it as handily as I shot the Model 70, I shot left handed, being left eye dominant, that was a "mechanical problem", not one of accuracy. All in all, as above mentioned, the Winchester trigger would be tough to beat, perhaps impossible to beat.

RaySendero · February 12, 2014, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Metal god wrote:

Hey just installed the new trigger . .....

Anything you guys want to add or make sure I've done or will do is welcome

Thanks Metal

ugh yes, 1 thought - Might want to keep that old Rem trigger.

Put it back in, if rifle ever has to be returned to Remington for repairs.

Metal god · February 12, 2014, 09:24 PM

yep , not only keeping it . I did not clean it . I put it in the Timney package and it will stay there for ever most likely .

Thanks though it's a good point

We are taking it out Friday I'll update then

Quote:

as I said, with 5 million sold and just a handful of mishaps- not a big issue- just something to be aware of.

I think that is a bit of a under guestiment . There are at least a few hundred documented cases and I bet a few thousand that this issue has happened to . Thing is they said nothing and either cleaned or replaced the trigger like I did .

To me it's like the anti's saying there are almost no documented cases of CCW guys defending them selves or others . most likely 99% of those incidents were never reported . The CCW guy pulled the gun and the bad guy ran . End of problem -go home get some dinner . no need to call the cops be filing reports explaining why you pulled the gun out . Best to leave that dead dog lie

RaySendero · February 12, 2014, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Metal god wrote:

yep , not only keeping it . I did not clean it . I put it in the Timney package and it will stay there for ever most likely .

LOL - you know they like to readjust your trigger if it come in for any repairs
LOL - justice could be served!

davem · February 13, 2014, 12:15 PM

Metal- you might be right on that- could be a lot of unreported cases. How this whole issue came about was I have a Rem700 that I bought at close out several years ago for $200 brand new (the store was closing) and I figured I'd fix it up with pillar bedding, trigger job, work up best re-loads, etc. The whole thing got put on the back burner but in the mean time an article in a varmit hunting magazine told how to adjust a Remington trigger. I bought the gun with the idea of putting in a Timney because the factory trigger was "sealed"- I didn't know they could be adjusted. When I found out you could adjust them I was thinking a 2 1/4 pound pull which I have since found out you cannot do- you aren't supposed to go less than 3 lbs.
In any event I'm now about ready to start the work and I searched the net on the trigger adjustment as what I have is 7-8 pounds and way too heavy. That's when is whole trigger issue came to my attention. Some guys set the trigger to 3 1/2 lbs and never have a problem but there are a disturbing number of mishaps.
What to do?
Right now with that 8 pound pull I can't tell what is what. I think I'll adjust the factory trigger to 4 or 3 1/2 lbs and just be careful. I'll then pillar bed and work up reloads- if the gun is a tack driver and worth spending more $$ then I'll go ahead at that point and put in a Timney.
For those that have put in a Timney- ever have any trouble? Do you routinely clean the trigger?

**44 AMP** · February 13, 2014, 12:19 PM

Quote:

There are at least a few hundred documented cases and I bet a few thousand that this issue has happened to .

If it were 10,000 rifles, that would still only be .002 of the 5 million sold. Not a number that gives me great concern...

Metal god · February 13, 2014, 03:07 PM

So That .002% that Remington has is small you say ? How many of those do you think got a new trigger right away because it's way to heavy ? Now that .002 just got a little bigger . Now compare that .002% problem with any other trigger . Even high point triggers have a smaller % that fails and discharges the weapon when you don't want it to .

Is this not a big deal because it's a rifle and not a handgun . It's a Lot easier to practice good gun safety with a rifle . Would you even consider to carry a inside the waist band handgun that has been known to discharge when you don't have your finger on the trigger ?

**44 AMP** · February 14, 2014, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Would you even consider to carry a inside the waist band handgun that has been known to discharge when you don't have your finger on the trigger ?

You mean, like a GLock?

Metal god · February 14, 2014, 12:35 PM

WOW never knew Glocks had a problem with them firing when your finger was off the trigger . Was it a design issue or a maintenance issue ? Must be all those Glock fanboys not willing to say anything bad about them . From what I've read and heard . Glock can do NO wrong .

Does your last post mean to say you do and or would carry the Glock model that has these problems ?

**44 AMP** · February 14, 2014, 01:15 PM

I don't care for Glocks, and would not carry one.

It was a bit of a jibe at Glock's "perfection".

There are more than just a few cases (some famous) where something pulled the trigger or someone pulled the trigger when they didn't mean to, and because conditions were right, the little tab on the trigger that they call a safety, wasn't.

one foolish fellow was IWB carry with a Glock, no holster, and in sweatpants! Walking about the Home Depot, he felt the gun slip, and went to grab it. He shot himself in the testicles! While it wasn't reported, we figured he must have been using "ball" ammo.

An essentially identical gun, with either a grip safety or an engaged manual safety would have been much less likely to go off.

My point was that while the number of Rem triggers with problems (reported or not) seems like a lot, compared to the number of Rem triggers out there, its really very, very small. And, of course, proper gun safety practices negates the risks, even if they do malfunction.

Metal god · February 14, 2014, 02:19 PM

As for safety's I have a XD9 that has the grip and trigger safety . To me those are not safety's . I used to carry for work ( security a long time ago ) and the thought was you wanted a manual safety just in case the bad guy got your gun . You may get that extra second or two while he is trying to figure out why the gun didn't fire . With my XD and Glocks alike your dead the second he gets the gun . The natural grip and firing of the weapon disengages all those so called safety's . I carried a 92fs and yes it is one more thing to think about when drawing your weapon . How ever if that's what you practice it should not be an issue .

I also had a holster that took two distinct and separate movements to remove the weapon . first was the snap the second was you needed to rock the gun forward to remove it from the holster . If you did not know that . It made it almost impossible to take the weapon from behind .

Yes it did take some practice to get even remotely quick with that setup but I did feel it was very unlikely I or anyone else was going to get shot with my side arm unless it was me discharging it .

oh and leaving for the range test in 20 min . I'll update you guys on the new trigger and most likely say a little about the new

SR45

alan · February 14, 2014, 07:24 PM

All this talk of what sounds like rather light triggers leaves me curious. I fired a Garand in National Match Course Competition for 5 or 6 years. The rifle's trigger, as required, would lifted 4.5#. It was smooth and trouble free.

I later on went to bolt action rifles,mostly Model 70's. The man who bedded my rifles, a fellow competitor would polish and adjust the factory trigger on the Model 70 to, as I recall, 42 ounces.

The sears on Mike's trigger jobs ALWAYS held, never had a problem. They broke "like glass". Any problems I had with those rifles were purely my own, having nothing to do with the rifle, it's bedding or it's trigger. This applied to the Winchester as well as to the Garand. Seems like this business of light triggers might be over done, that being my guess.

February 7, 2014, 11:49 PM	#26
Metal god Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2012 Location: San Diego CA Posts: 6,875	Hey just installed the new trigger . It's a timney 510 and WOW very cool . I have it set at 2-1/4lbs . It's nice and crisp with no creep . It past all the function test including banging the butt stock on the ground with it cocked . Next test will be at the range . The old trigger was SO dirty it's not even funny . That had to be the problem . My new SR45 gets out of jail on Friday so I'll be going to the range Friday for sure . We'll bring the 700 and see how she does . Anything you guys want to add or make sure I've done or will do is welcome Thanks Metal __________________ If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again .

February 10, 2014, 06:08 PM	#32
flashhole Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2005 Location: Owego, NY Posts: 2,000	Why would Remmington stay with a trigger design if it were faulty? __________________ ,,, stupidity comes to some people very easily. 8/22/2017 my wife in a discussion about Liberals. Are you ready for civil war?

February 11, 2014, 11:37 AM	#35
flashhole Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2005 Location: Owego, NY Posts: 2,000	So one might legitimately challenge a design flaw vs. manufacturing defects for the assembly. __________________ ,,, stupidity comes to some people very easily. 8/22/2017 my wife in a discussion about Liberals. Are you ready for civil war?

February 11, 2014, 09:05 PM	#36
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,824	A design flaw is when, assembled run as designed, the mechanism fails to operate properly, or damages itself during operation. Something that isn't what you think it ought to be isn't a design flaw, its an opinion. There are lots of things I consider less than optimal, or even downright stupid. And I am often at a lack when it comes to understanding why the designers did it that way. But the fact that it IS done that way (no matter what "it" is) means they intended to do it that way. That's not a flaw. The curmudgeon in me is getting fed up with the common usage of "design flaw". Things that work are not "flawed" because someone figured out how to do it better. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

February 11, 2014, 11:06 PM	#37
Lemmon Senior Member Join Date: December 25, 2009 Location: Rural South Carolina Posts: 445	Timney trigger In my youth when my eyesight was good I was able to rework three or four Rem 700's triggers. The last one I really goofed and distroyed the factory trigger. I bought a Timney trigger which solved my problem. I love the Rem 700's. Lemmon from Rural South Carolina..... sitting at home nice and warm while outside has Sleet and frozen rain tonight..... watching the Olympics....

February 8, 2014, 05:42 PM	#28
mxsailor803 Senior Member Join Date: February 8, 2010 Location: SC Posts: 1,344	Glad ya'll liked the Timney. I've got several rifles that have them and have zero complaints about them. Enjoy your range trip.

February 10, 2014, 04:25 PM	#29
davem Junior member Join Date: October 4, 2004 Posts: 458	A couple of things to talk about. The Remington Manual clearly states you need to keep the trigger clean. The trigger is pretty exposed so cleaning is a must and you need to clean without remaining residue- that's why I ask about the brake cleaner because brake cleaner is not supposed to leave a residue. Remington says a trigger with too much oil left can gum up the works and be dangerous (fire accidentally as I interprete that). 1. Of those of you that clean the trigger area- how do you do it? 2. The safety. When the safety is engaged it lifts the sear quite a bit ABOVE the trigger so if you pull the trigger with the safety on the sear is so high as to not catch on that free floating connector that is between trigger and sear when you let go of the trigger and it returns back under the sear. So make sure the safety is turned all the way on. The later models also allow you to take a round out of the chamber with the safety on. Any earlier model where you have to take the safety off to unload should be changed IMHO. 3. One of the sites on the net speaks of a guy that when to Africa, the weather was very hot and when he chambered a round the gun fired and he figured the change in temperature was the cause. If so- that doesn't have (I think) anything to do with the Walker trigger's connector. I think it might have with any trigger where sear engagement was reduced. SO.... What do some of you think about testing the rifle when in a new location. Say you go to Africa. While in camp, slam the bolt (unloaded) several times to insure the trigger is holding.

February 10, 2014, 05:00 PM	#30
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,806	There are multiple problems with the Remington/Walker trigger. It is true that many problems are caused by a dirty trigger mechanism, but that is also a design problem. It is impossible to properly inspect and clean a Remington trigger and it takes far less dirt to foul one than any other design. The trigger connector is an un needed part that just makes the trigger more complex than necessary. There have been multiple examples of brand new guns firing with no trigger pull because the trigger connector failed. The problem was detected 60 years ago and is far more common than a lot want to admit. There are lots of examples of folks who had no business working on triggers and making them dangerous. This is true of any gun, but it seems that the problem is far more common with Remingtons. The simple truth is that for whatever reason Remington triggers fail at a far greater rate than any other design.

February 10, 2014, 05:24 PM	#31
alan Senior Member Join Date: June 7, 1999 Posts: 3,847	I have a Remington 40X, their Rangemaster rifle, .308Win. I've had this rifle since 1972, used to shoot it in High Power Competition. I do not recall having any problems with the original trigger, which along the road was changed out, replaced with a Canjar trigger. Never had a problem with that one either. The 40X was an extremely accurate rifle. Improper trigger "adjustment" can and has caused problems in more than one rifle, pistols too.

February 11, 2014, 10:55 AM	#34
davem Junior member Join Date: October 4, 2004 Posts: 458	Flash hole- it had to do with obtaining a patent. The design was already in existence with the top of the trigger against the sear (Like the Timney) so Remington re-designed with the connector which they claimed had some type of benefit. Walker- the guy that designed the trigger wanted the safety to also lock the trigger but even then the connector was un-necessary- purely a way to have a patent for the trigger. I think a patent is good for 17 years plus another 17 (34) so why Remington didn't immediately change things after the 34 years- I don't know. So...I have a Remington I want to improve. Pillar bed, etc. I think I'll leave a new trigger for last, pillar bed, work up the best reloads, set the Remington trigger to 3 1/2 and see how everything is working and if the gun is accurate, then buy the Timney for safety and an even better trigger. And...let's not have a panic attack on this one. As has been said, there are 5 million sold. There appears to be a design flaw that shouldn't be an issue if one doesn't overly rely on the safety. On a Timney- are there similar issues- that is- if you set at 2 1/4 pounds and do all the tests- will the trigger normally hold or will it discharge and require more sear engagement, etc?

February 12, 2014, 11:27 AM	#38
davem Junior member Join Date: October 4, 2004 Posts: 458	Well if I am wrong then please correct me but as I understand it, in order to obtain a patent, Remington had to come up with a design of their own so they added the free floating connector. I am getting this information from several different websites. There is no purpose to this connector. To eliminate the problem you can epoxy glue the connector to the trigger- then it cannot catch on the sear or get dirt accumulated between connector and trigger. The only problem with the epoxy glue method is a competent gunsmith needs to check all the angles and by the time you do all that- for the same cost you can put in a Timney that is better polished and designed to operate at lower trigger pull. As I understand it, even when the conector is epoxy glued- you still can't drop the trigger pull below 3 lbs. The connector getting snagged on the sear- that's a problem where someone is pulling the trigger on a loaded chamber- on safety and when the safety is turned off the gun immediately fires. That's not the only issue, if the area is dirty and dirt gets between the conector and trigger- it moves the conector forward- that's when the gun fires immediately as you chamber a round and close the bolt. These are not manufacturing flaws. To me a manufacturing flaw is a good design but the tooling was poor- rounded sear engagements, etc. A design flaw is a flaw that can occur because of the design even when the manufacturing of the parts is perfect. As I said, I'm not going to have a nervous breakdown on this issue. You need to simply be aware of the problem and inspect the trigger area and keep it clean and free of excess oil (The manual I got with the rifle clearly states this) that could attract dirt/grit and you need to be aware that the muzzle should always be pointed in a safe direction. On the safety, The safety locks the firing pin so there isn't a problem with the safety- per say- its an issue of sear engagement that can change due to the free floating connector. But, that's how I understand it- if I am wrong- help me out on this one. And, as I said, with 5 million sold and just a handful of mishaps- not a big issue- just something to be aware of.

February 12, 2014, 07:45 PM	#39
alan Senior Member Join Date: June 7, 1999 Posts: 3,847	The following might well be off-point, my apologies but I always thought that the factory trigger that Winchester used on their Model 70 rifles from their onset til quite recently, was design magic. Granted, they might need a little work, knocking off burrs, polishing metal, not removing much and not changing angles, but they might be set/worked on once, and then forgotten. I had Model 70 Target Rifles, where the trigger was smoothed out and set one time. I had more than one of them so treated, where the rifle had been re-barreled multiple times, the trigger adjusted just once. As I recall, the TOTAL number of parts involved, including a large headed pin that attached the trigger to the action did not exceed 8. That factory trigger was an example of first rate design, in my opinion. I had a Remington 40X Rangemaster Rifle , the accuracy of which out to 600 yards left nothing to be desired. I could not shoot it as handily as I shot the Model 70, I shot left handed, being left eye dominant, that was a "mechanical problem", not one of accuracy. All in all, as above mentioned, the Winchester trigger would be tough to beat, perhaps impossible to beat.

February 13, 2014, 12:15 PM	#43
davem Junior member Join Date: October 4, 2004 Posts: 458	Metal- you might be right on that- could be a lot of unreported cases. How this whole issue came about was I have a Rem700 that I bought at close out several years ago for $200 brand new (the store was closing) and I figured I'd fix it up with pillar bedding, trigger job, work up best re-loads, etc. The whole thing got put on the back burner but in the mean time an article in a varmit hunting magazine told how to adjust a Remington trigger. I bought the gun with the idea of putting in a Timney because the factory trigger was "sealed"- I didn't know they could be adjusted. When I found out you could adjust them I was thinking a 2 1/4 pound pull which I have since found out you cannot do- you aren't supposed to go less than 3 lbs. In any event I'm now about ready to start the work and I searched the net on the trigger adjustment as what I have is 7-8 pounds and way too heavy. That's when is whole trigger issue came to my attention. Some guys set the trigger to 3 1/2 lbs and never have a problem but there are a disturbing number of mishaps. What to do? Right now with that 8 pound pull I can't tell what is what. I think I'll adjust the factory trigger to 4 or 3 1/2 lbs and just be careful. I'll then pillar bed and work up reloads- if the gun is a tack driver and worth spending more $$ then I'll go ahead at that point and put in a Timney. For those that have put in a Timney- ever have any trouble? Do you routinely clean the trigger?

February 13, 2014, 03:07 PM	#45
Metal god Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2012 Location: San Diego CA Posts: 6,875	So That .002% that Remington has is small you say ? How many of those do you think got a new trigger right away because it's way to heavy ? Now that .002 just got a little bigger . Now compare that .002% problem with any other trigger . Even high point triggers have a smaller % that fails and discharges the weapon when you don't want it to . Is this not a big deal because it's a rifle and not a handgun . It's a Lot easier to practice good gun safety with a rifle . Would you even consider to carry a inside the waist band handgun that has been known to discharge when you don't have your finger on the trigger ? __________________ If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again .

February 14, 2014, 12:35 PM	#47
Metal god Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2012 Location: San Diego CA Posts: 6,875	WOW never knew Glocks had a problem with them firing when your finger was off the trigger . Was it a design issue or a maintenance issue ? Must be all those Glock fanboys not willing to say anything bad about them . From what I've read and heard . Glock can do NO wrong . Does your last post mean to say you do and or would carry the Glock model that has these problems ? __________________ If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again . Last edited by Metal god; February 14, 2014 at 12:42 PM.

February 14, 2014, 01:15 PM	#48
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,824	I don't care for Glocks, and would not carry one. It was a bit of a jibe at Glock's "perfection". There are more than just a few cases (some famous) where something pulled the trigger or someone pulled the trigger when they didn't mean to, and because conditions were right, the little tab on the trigger that they call a safety, wasn't. one foolish fellow was IWB carry with a Glock, no holster, and in sweatpants! Walking about the Home Depot, he felt the gun slip, and went to grab it. He shot himself in the testicles! While it wasn't reported, we figured he must have been using "ball" ammo. An essentially identical gun, with either a grip safety or an engaged manual safety would have been much less likely to go off. My point was that while the number of Rem triggers with problems (reported or not) seems like a lot, compared to the number of Rem triggers out there, its really very, very small. And, of course, proper gun safety practices negates the risks, even if they do malfunction. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

February 14, 2014, 02:19 PM	#49
Metal god Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2012 Location: San Diego CA Posts: 6,875	As for safety's I have a XD9 that has the grip and trigger safety . To me those are not safety's . I used to carry for work ( security a long time ago ) and the thought was you wanted a manual safety just in case the bad guy got your gun . You may get that extra second or two while he is trying to figure out why the gun didn't fire . With my XD and Glocks alike your dead the second he gets the gun . The natural grip and firing of the weapon disengages all those so called safety's . I carried a 92fs and yes it is one more thing to think about when drawing your weapon . How ever if that's what you practice it should not be an issue . I also had a holster that took two distinct and separate movements to remove the weapon . first was the snap the second was you needed to rock the gun forward to remove it from the holster . If you did not know that . It made it almost impossible to take the weapon from behind . Yes it did take some practice to get even remotely quick with that setup but I did feel it was very unlikely I or anyone else was going to get shot with my side arm unless it was me discharging it . oh and leaving for the range test in 20 min . I'll update you guys on the new trigger and most likely say a little about the new SR45 __________________ If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again .

February 14, 2014, 07:24 PM	#50
alan Senior Member Join Date: June 7, 1999 Posts: 3,847	All this talk of what sounds like rather light triggers leaves me curious. I fired a Garand in National Match Course Competition for 5 or 6 years. The rifle's trigger, as required, would lifted 4.5#. It was smooth and trouble free. I later on went to bolt action rifles,mostly Model 70's. The man who bedded my rifles, a fellow competitor would polish and adjust the factory trigger on the Model 70 to, as I recall, 42 ounces. The sears on Mike's trigger jobs ALWAYS held, never had a problem. They broke "like glass". Any problems I had with those rifles were purely my own, having nothing to do with the rifle, it's bedding or it's trigger. This applied to the Winchester as well as to the Garand. Seems like this business of light triggers might be over done, that being my guess.