Bismuth or Tungsten Matrix or ?

Pathfinder45 · February 23, 2010, 07:43 PM

I have a 12 gauge Winchester model 1912 with full choke that's nearly a century old. Who all's non-steel, non-toxic shotshells on waterfowl in vintage guns and what ammo do you recommend for my Winchester that's legal on waterfowl and won't damage my gun?

30-30remchester · February 23, 2010, 08:28 PM

I have used Bismoth for years in my full choke model 12.

rbernie · February 23, 2010, 10:53 PM

I was of the impression that any barrel not rated for steel shot was also not rated for other non-toxic shot, due to the extreme hardness of the non-toxic shot.

?

Doc Intrepid · February 23, 2010, 10:58 PM

rbernie,

Is the rating 'automatic'? That is, is it something like "any shotgun barrel manufactured prior to 1940 is automatically not rated for steel shot", or words to that effect? Or is there more to it than that?

I have a Winchester shotgun manufactured in 1907, and am also wondering what modern loads are safe to shoot in it.

Thanks,

Doc

jrothWA · February 23, 2010, 11:05 PM

that Bismuth is best for older guns BUT harder to find.
SOME say the "NICE" shot is good forolder guns BUT contact a good smith and get his recommendations.

rbernie · February 24, 2010, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Is the rating 'automatic'? That is, is it something like "any shotgun barrel manufactured prior to 1940 is automatically not rated for steel shot", or words to that effect? Or is there more to it than that?

I think that it's just as you stated - that barrels that preceeded the advent of steel shot have thinner walls and cannot be used with non-toxic shot without damaging the barrel. I have an older (1950's era) Belgian that clearly shows damage internally from non-toxic shot.

nutty ned · February 24, 2010, 09:49 PM

Bismuth

wildfowl4444 · February 25, 2010, 03:50 PM

The problem is with the hardness of the shot. Steel is harder than lead.

Bismuth is soft, like lead. MOST Hevi-shot is hard like steel. Hevi-shot Classic Doubles is soft like Bismuth/lead. Kent Tungten Matrix is also soft like lead, but Tungsten Iron is hard like steel.

Confused yet? I know I am..........

Anyhow, look for Bismuth, Hevi-shot CLASSIC DOUBLES, or Kent Tungsten matrix.

February 23, 2010, 07:43 PM	#1
Pathfinder45 Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2008 Posts: 3,224	Bismuth or Tungsten Matrix or ? I have a 12 gauge Winchester model 1912 with full choke that's nearly a century old. Who all's non-steel, non-toxic shotshells on waterfowl in vintage guns and what ammo do you recommend for my Winchester that's legal on waterfowl and won't damage my gun?

February 23, 2010, 10:53 PM	#3
rbernie Senior Member Join Date: August 10, 2004 Location: Plain Ol', TX Posts: 713	I was of the impression that any barrel not rated for steel shot was also not rated for other non-toxic shot, due to the extreme hardness of the non-toxic shot. ? __________________ -A conclusion is not a destination, it's simply a convenient place to stop thinking.- -Reading a thing doesn't automatically make it so; repeating it doesn't necessarily make it any truer.- -Every Texan should be a member of the Texas State Rifle Association.

February 23, 2010, 10:58 PM	#4
Doc Intrepid Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2009 Location: Washington State Posts: 1,037	rbernie, Is the rating 'automatic'? That is, is it something like "any shotgun barrel manufactured prior to 1940 is automatically not rated for steel shot", or words to that effect? Or is there more to it than that? I have a Winchester shotgun manufactured in 1907, and am also wondering what modern loads are safe to shoot in it. Thanks, Doc __________________ *Treat everyone you meet with dignity and respect....but have a plan to kill them just in case.*

February 23, 2010, 11:05 PM	#5
jrothWA Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2006 Posts: 2,519	general consideration is... that Bismuth is best for older guns BUT harder to find. SOME say the "NICE" shot is good forolder guns BUT contact a good smith and get his recommendations.

February 23, 2010, 08:28 PM	#2
30-30remchester Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2009 Location: mountains of colorado Posts: 977	I have used Bismoth for years in my full choke model 12.

February 24, 2010, 09:49 PM	#7
nutty ned Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2006 Posts: 765	Bismuth

February 25, 2010, 03:50 PM	#8
wildfowl4444 Member Join Date: April 6, 2005 Posts: 27	The problem is with the hardness of the shot. Steel is harder than lead. Bismuth is soft, like lead. MOST Hevi-shot is hard like steel. Hevi-shot Classic Doubles is soft like Bismuth/lead. Kent Tungten Matrix is also soft like lead, but Tungsten Iron is hard like steel. Confused yet? I know I am.......... Anyhow, look for Bismuth, Hevi-shot CLASSIC DOUBLES, or Kent Tungsten matrix.