Need some help with a turkey gun

[wvcoltsfan]

I'm getting ready to purchase a new turkey gun. I'm currently shooting a Mossberg 835 12 gauge ultra mag but in the last 2 years I've missed 3 turkeys at 4 steps, 6 steps, and 7 steps. I 100% believe that my gun is choked too tight. So after talking to some local turkey experts I found out these guy were having the same problem years ago and now they're all shooting S/S's or O/U 20 gauges. They're basically shooting cylinder with one barrel out to 15 yards, and with the other barrel they're shooting custom turkey chokes patterned at 45 yards with a J-point site to top off the rig.

This makes a lot of sense to me. So now I will own this rig. Here's the question. I need a cheap O/U (I don't like the way a S/S feels) that can handle 10 shells a year of Hevi-shot. Please before everyone starts on me about "you get what you pay for" understand that before I even buy the gun I'm $550 in the hole with a J-point site and a hydro dip. Besides who in their right mind spray paints a $2,000 shotgun.

Here's my short list. They're all single trigger guns:
Stevens, Tri-star, Mossberg, and CZ (these are starting to get out of my price range). Stoeger was on there but I was told that you couldn't set which barrel you want to go off (apparently the bottom barrel always goes off first).

I look forward to hearing back from you guys. Everyone on here seems very knowledgeable an by the middle of next week I hope to be ordering a new shotgun.

[Thunderkiss]

Sorry to hear of your misses at that close of a range. I would hold off on purchasing a new gun and give George Trulock a call. He guarantees his chokes and if your not happy you can exchange the choke or get your money back. I have called and emailed him on numerous occasions and he has always lead me in the right direction with shot size and the constriction I need.

As far as the O/U you have listed, the CZ gets descent reviews.

Hope this helps.

[Dreaming100Straight]

Even if you paid that much for your sights and dip, you just threw that away if you don't get a decent gun. Thunderkiss seems to have it about right, but you may first want to visit a patterning board and see what is going on. That and get someone, perhaps a shooting instructor, check you out to see it the problem is operator error.

[hartcreek]

Get some butcher paper and some cardboard and get it done. You do not state what load you are using for turkeys either. I load my own as I use a Mossberg 500 and my Marlin model 19 bothe in 12 gage but one 2 1/2 but no matter what you use you start at the same place with a patterning board and multiple loads.

[bspillman]

Maverick by mossberg makes a good o/u. They run around 350 in this area.

[Blindstitch]

You realize that for every yard you are away from your target the pattern adds and inch. If you're 2 yards from a bird then expect a 2 inch pattern. 30 yards is a 30 inch pattern. That's my rough rule.

Also a lot of people say shoot for the neck so 50% of your bb's won't sail over the birds head.

[eastbank]

i have had good results with win. longbeard shells. eastbank.

[wvcoltsfan]

I'm sorry guys I guess I should have given you a little more back ground on me. I didn't want to come off sounding like a prick with my first post on here.

I turkey hunt, and for 3 of the last 4 years I've tagged out. For me that's 7 birds a year (2 in WV, 2 in MD, and 3 in VA). I've also in the last 5 years managed to kill birds in PA, TX, OH, AL, and KY. My wife only lets me go on one "hunt" during the spring so this year I hope to add a bird or two from NY.

The Mossberg 835 12ga ultra mag shooting 3 inch Hevi-shot #7's (I load my own turkey shells) through a Jelly Head choke is a bird killing combo that works very well for me.

All this being said, I'm trying to fix a problem of missing turkeys at point blank range. Thanks for your help, and please keep posting anything that you think might be helpful for me and my situation.

[BigJimP]

If I was going to spray paint an O/U .....I'd start shopping the pawn shops and used gun shops ....( rather than buy any of the guns on your list - that I think are all mechanically highly suspect to holding up - even in short term ).

I'd be looking for a gun that is mechanically sound.../ but the stock has been trashed...( maybe they dropped it in gravel, etc )...so it won't demand a high price in the used market....but I'd stick with looking for an older Beretta or Browning field gun ( still with changeable screw in chokes ) ....or an SKB or a Ruger...in 12ga or a 20ga..../ there ought to be something out there under
$ 750 or so..../ and then you can camo it up as you see fit...

[jmr40]

Nothing wrong with the gun you have. You just have to practice at those ranges too so you'll know how it patterns and where it hits.

[Blindstitch]

I'm curious what kind of pattern you can get at point blank with a cylinder bore. Doesn't really sound like your pattern will open up much. That would make buying a new gun a waste but i'm not going to stop anyone from buying another shotgun.

[FITASC]

I guess I am confused.....
Why not just try a different choke than spending a lot on a cheap gun?

[Thunderkiss]

The Mossberg 835 12ga ultra mag shooting 3 inch Hevi-shot #7's (I load my own turkey shells) through a Jelly Head choke is a bird killing combo that works very well for me.

If your tagging out in past years with that gun and it works great for you, I don't think the answer is to buy another gun.

[natman]

You have an excellent turkey rig as is. I believe that the problem is misunderstood. It's not that your choke is too tight, it's that you're missing the bird. Instead of trying to compensate with a more open choke, figure out why your pattern goes somewhere other than where your sights are pointed.

Buying a cheap O/U in order to get a more open choke is the wrong approach.

[drcook]

Here is a write up that is still as pertinent as it was when written

O/U Writeup on a different forum

By going to 2 different chokes you are going back to why a lot of hunters carry SxSes. 1 barrel for close range, the other for further out.

As long as they both shoot to the center line of your sight, you can compensate for the different elevation settings

[Dreaming100Straight]

Why not just try a different choke than spending a lot on a cheap gun?

I think he is shooting a single barrel gun and wanted a double so he could have two differently choked barrels to select. One for 15 and the other for 45 yards.

[Arizona Fusilier]

Wow.....if you have been that successful with the Mossberg....I would not be changing guns.

If super-close range is confounding you.....maybe take your shots a little further out? Maybe 20 yards or so?

Sounds like you have no problem calling them in, and you are a fantastic turkey hunter. I'm sure they don't instantly materialize 3 steps in front of you.

If I was tagging out like you are, I wouldn't change a thing. I especially would not be buying a cheaper shotgun for the hobby I love and am extremely adept at.

[Blindstitch]

I think he is shooting a single barrel gun and wanted a double so he could have two differently choked barrels to select. One for 15 and the other for 45 yards.

Still not going to convince you not to buy another gun but a patterning board sounds like a great solution. I shoot a SXS for pheasants and it has a mod/full choke set up. Most of my birds are shot with the first barrel. Still I patterned it and made sure it was where I thought it was. And it's good enough that I blew the head off a quail at 5 yards earlier this season. Not a single bb in the body and they're not big birds.

I also have a mossberg that shoots 4 inches high at 30 yards. I know because the patterning board told me and my hit rate went up.

[natman]

By going to 2 different chokes you are going back to why a lot of hunters carry SxSes. 1 barrel for close range, the other for further out.

This makes a lot of sense - for wingshooting. "Close range" in wingshooting is 20 yards instead of 40.

Turkey shooting is different. You use a shotgun, but you shoot it like a rifle. The OP has one of two possible issues. One, his gun isn't really shooting to point of aim and the pattern spread at long distances is compensating. Two, he's just missing. At ranges as short as 7 paces, the pattern size difference between a cylinder and a turkey choke isn't going to be enough to compensate for a flat out miss.

A session with a patterning board should establish which it is. If you get consistent shots in the same place but off POA, then you have a sight problem. If you get shots all over the place, you're missing.

[bamaranger]

Ultra close gobblers can be a problem. I would want to shoot those birds sooner than 10- 20 ft if I could!!! But one can't control everything.

One thing I try to do if I have an ultra close gobbler is shoot at the BASE (not center) of the neck, just a tad above where the neck joins the body. That is a bigger target, and less articulated than the bobbing and weaving head, or the snakey neck of a bird in close. As noted, there is not much pattern available to work with inside of 30 feet. With the base of neck hold, A high shot centers the neck (should), a low shot will still plow through the base and kill the bird. AND I try to always shoot at a bird that has the neck extended.

One issue not discussed is what type of sights are on your current Mossberg?

I am of the firm opinion that the standard single front bead or single fiber optic front can be vastly improved on. A rear sight, either the conventional bead and blade arrangement, or a peep and appropriate front sight, will allow one to slide a pattern around and solve most POI problems. AND, a rear sight pulls your cheek/head down onto the comb of the stock, helping to eliminate looking over the sights instead of down the barrel. Looking over the sights, not getting a firm cheek weld, ususally results in a high shot. That problem is further aggrevated with short barreled turkey guns. And is further aggrevated by a strutting gobbler at point blank range that seems so big that one could not possibly miss. So it happens.

Another option may be a red dot. But I suspect that only a high dollar, absolutely top shelf sight will hold up under the wet and rough duty that spring hunting can dish out. You 835 is tapped for a sight base and rings. A low power 1-4x shotgun scope might be another option, but watch out for eye relief and recoil. I took a heck of a lick experimenting with a scope and turkey loads, and will not use one for that reason. Fine for at the range, but in the woods, in improvised positions trying to get on a bird that appears at a bad angle, you are just asking to get wacked.

I've considered a short barreled double as a turkey gun, not for the dual choke option but for the weight reduction. Whether or not I could manage to select the appropriate trigger/choke when a bird appeared is another matter entirely!!?!?? I decided to stay with what has worked for all these years, a REm 870 with slug barrel, sights and Rem choke threaded, onto which goes a turkey tube, Rem Superfull.

You may not be so much overchoked, as overloaded. Although I want every advantage on an old gobbler that I can manage, Hevi-shot (space shot I call it) is one thing I think I do not need. At at the distances your are shooting (hate to say missing?) turkeys, you don't either. Lead will work just fine. And if you are overchoked, lead should shoot a bit looser, and still kill gobblers just fine out to any reasonable range you should be shooting anyhow.

I'd add that the 835 is one sure gobbler getter. I used Bamaboys last year and am much impressed. It is 4" longer than my 870, a bit more cumbersome, but not as troublesome as I thought it might be. We put a set of front and rear fiber optics on it, and with the longer sight radius, I can REALLY see the sights much better now than on my old standby stubby 870. Old eyes stink. With the alloy receiver, I don't think there is any weight difference. Nicely camo'd. My old 870 blued, now silver gray, needs taped every year. AND, the MOssberg, with a Colonial Arms tube, supposedly the equal of the renowned Star Dot Tube, it actually outshoots my 870 with the same #5 hi-speed lead load. I'd not leave something that has worked so well for you. I'd just improve it a bit.

Finally, I am much jealous of the fact you are hunting multiple states, and successfully at that. I now have the time, but not sure that I could manage the finances...but good for you. I do know that Lord willing, I will hunt the AL season more this year than any other previous.

Hope you hear many gobbles.

[FITASC]

This makes a lot of sense - for wingshooting. "Close range" in wingshooting is 20 yards instead of 40.

So you have your chokes at 30 and 40 - one for somewhat far and one for a lot farther....

I saw a Perazzi pigeon gun ( the live box bird type) with fixed chokes of 28 and 48 - open to stop, tighter to obliterate..........

[natman]

So you have your chokes at 30 and 40 - one for somewhat far and one for a lot farther....

Double barrels with different chokes make a lot of sense in wingshooting where the target is moving and having a large spread of shot helps compensate for shooting that's good but not quite perfect.

Turkeys OTOH are normally shot standing relatively still. While the gun is a shotgun, one shoots it as if it were a rifle. While sights of some sort are not absolutely required, they certainly help.

In the OP's case he should resolve his sight adjustment / marksmanship issue rather than try to band-aid over it with a more open choke. You should be able to kill a turkey at 7 paces with a 22.

[jimbob86]

I'm currently shooting a Mossberg 835 12 gauge ultra mag but in the last 2 years I've missed 3 turkeys at 4 steps, 6 steps, and 7 steps. I 100% believe that my gun is choked too tight.

Ya think?

The best answer is usually the simplest answer ....... and the simplest thing would be, I think ....... to shoot sooner.

If you are regularly bringing them inside 10 yards, why go with a choke and load patterned 4.5 times that far?