S&W .455 Colt - Page 2

mkk41 · September 20, 2011, 04:10 PM

The .455 Colt was also known as the .455 Eley , a different round than the .455 Webley. It was longer (1.388 OAL-.885 case length) , with a few grains heavier bullet.

I have a 1918 Colt New Service in .455 Eley.

Ya can shoot the shorter .455 Webley (1.227 OAL-.748 case length) with no problems other than a different point of impact.

gyvel · September 20, 2011, 05:47 PM

Quote:

The .455 Colt was also known as the .455 Eley

I always thought the .455 Eley was the .455 Self Loading, although the Brits could have used the same name for more than one cartridge.

rabbit · September 20, 2011, 06:21 PM

hello there were two .455 and .455 self Loading [ auto], the great thing you can learn on the net, rabbit

mkk41 · September 20, 2011, 06:28 PM

The Brits are even more confusing than us Yanks.

There's the .455 Eley = .455 Colt = .455 Enfield = .455 Revolver Mk.I

Then there's the.455 Webley Mk.II revolver , and the .455 Webley Automatic.

And there's great info in that wonderful book , Barnes Cartridges of the World!

James K · September 20, 2011, 11:55 PM

Note of caution. It seems unlikely given the rarity of the .455 Automatic cartridge, but do NOT fire them in a .455 revolver. They will work because the .455 Auto is semi-rimmed, but the pressure is a lot higher than .455 revolvers were designed for. The British War Department put out a notice on the subject at one time.

On much the same subject, if you have one of those .455 Webleys (Mks I-VI) that were converted to use .45 ACP with moon clips, DO NOT fire standard or mil spec .45 ACP or any heavier .45 ACP load in it. Some of those guns have blown with normal .45 ACP GI ammo. In spite of the Webley lovers, even the Mk VI is not the strongest revolver in the world or anywhere near it. So don't blow one of those old timers trying to prove it is.

Also, the often-made statement that the Colt autos made for the .455 Auto are identical to the .45 ACP gun. Not true, even the frames are different to take the wider magazines, and barrels and slides are different.

Jim

gyvel · September 21, 2011, 09:16 AM

Quote:

hello there were two .455 and .455 self Loading [ auto], the great thing you can learn on the net, rabbit

The magazine for the .455 Colt 1911 I had was marked "Cal .455 Eley."

James K · September 21, 2011, 10:44 AM

Yep, that is what Colt marked them. Without a time machine, I doubt we will ever know why. Note that a .455 magazine is wider than a .45 ACP magazine and won't fit in the .45 ACP pistol.

At a gun show a couple of years ago, I mentioned that to a dealer who had a .455 magazine on his table. He called me "a dumb [color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color]" and said they were the same. He picked up a .45 ACP pistol and tried to put the .455 magazine in it. It wouldn't go. Then he hammered the mag on the table, then on the floor, bending the lanyard loop and the base plate lip. He finally got it almost in, turned to me (I was standing there, horror struck) and said, triumphantly, "See, dummy, it fits." I walked away shaking my head at a fool who would ruin a $150 magazine because he was too stupid to concede a point.

Jim

30-30remchester · September 21, 2011, 07:18 PM

Hornaday is now manufacturing 455 Webley MKII ammo.

rabbit · September 23, 2011, 01:43 PM

hi yes 30-30 horday is making standard .455 amoo , but not the .455 auto

gyvel · September 24, 2011, 03:28 AM

Bit of a PITA, but .455 Self Loading can be easily made by trimming back .45 Colt cases, cutting an extractor groove and thinning and turning the rims down a bit.

Generally it is best to fire them in a wide open area with a brass spotter, though.

James K · September 24, 2011, 11:39 AM

Hi, Gyvel,

What kind of bullet did you use? I did the same thing with cases, but I had a problem and never did really solve it. The .455 Auto bullet that is outside the case is almost a round ball, and I couldn't get bullets that would seat properly yet be within the COAL. Of course, regular .45 ACP with the bullets seated deeper will work in both the .455 Colt and the Webley because the extractor will hold the case, but that is not really the way to go.

Jim

gyvel · September 25, 2011, 11:45 PM

I'll have to dig out my old Lyman book to get the number, but, if I recall, I used a 200 grain lead round nose of theirs. The rounds worked well enough, but I was rewarded with a cracked grip and an hour long hunt for the brass. LOLL

Regarding .45 ACP, I have only had success using the naval auto as a single shot, since, as you pointed out, the OAL is lionger than the .455

James K · September 26, 2011, 12:05 AM

I said earlier that I didn't know why Colt called the cartridge(s) the .455 Eley instead of the .455 Webley. I mentioned the question to a friend yesterday and his reply may be the answer. He said that Eley didn't make guns, only ammo, and that Colt never would put the name of a competitor, even a foreign one, on its guns.

Jim

gyvel · September 26, 2011, 05:56 AM

That would make sense^^^^^^^^^^.

RickB · October 14, 2011, 02:37 PM

Quote:

hi , can you please post a picture i would really like to see what a 455 S&W looks like , rabbit

Quote:

rabbit, it looks just like a S&W Service Model of 1917. There are no special features

There were two versions, the original was of the New Century or Triple Lock design. In the trenches, the underbarrel lug and crane lock tended to get fouled with mud (and they were expensive), so the Mk. II version, without the crane lock and with exposed ejector was developed. The M1917 was based on the second model, but with a 5.5" rather than 6.5" barrel. The grips on the British contract pistols retained the checkering and gold medallions of commercial guns, while the M1917 had smooth, unadorned grips.

32 Magnum · October 14, 2011, 03:31 PM

What looks like an X with a line through it is actually an ENGLISH military property marks - the BROAD ARROWs facing each other meeting at the points. This is the standard mark when a former military accepted piece is put up or released for surplus resale.

IMG_0616.jpg

Asgardnz · November 26, 2011, 09:14 PM

Old Fiocchi .455 ammunition I had used to split the cases easily. I hope their cases are better these days. Modern Hornady brass should be good.

September 20, 2011, 04:10 PM	#26
mkk41 Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2004 Posts: 283	The .455 Colt was also known as the .455 Eley , a different round than the .455 Webley. It was longer (1.388 OAL-.885 case length) , with a few grains heavier bullet. I have a 1918 Colt New Service in .455 Eley. Ya can shoot the shorter .455 Webley (1.227 OAL-.748 case length) with no problems other than a different point of impact. Last edited by mkk41; September 20, 2011 at 05:45 PM.

September 20, 2011, 06:28 PM	#29
mkk41 Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2004 Posts: 283	The Brits are even more confusing than us Yanks. There's the .455 Eley = .455 Colt = .455 Enfield = .455 Revolver Mk.I Then there's the.455 Webley Mk.II revolver , and the .455 Webley Automatic. And there's great info in that wonderful book , Barnes Cartridges of the World! Last edited by mkk41; September 20, 2011 at 06:36 PM.

October 14, 2011, 03:31 PM	#41
32 Magnum Member In Memoriam Join Date: January 17, 2009 Location: Eastern PA Posts: 364	What looks like an X with a line through it is actually an ENGLISH military property marks - the BROAD ARROWs facing each other meeting at the points. This is the standard mark when a former military accepted piece is put up or released for surplus resale. IMG_0616.jpg Last edited by 32 Magnum; October 16, 2011 at 06:15 PM.

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September 20, 2011, 06:21 PM	#28
rabbit Junior member Join Date: September 15, 2011 Posts: 37	hello there were two .455 and .455 self Loading [ auto], the great thing you can learn on the net, rabbit

September 20, 2011, 11:55 PM	#30
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Note of caution. It seems unlikely given the rarity of the .455 Automatic cartridge, but do NOT fire them in a .455 revolver. They will work because the .455 Auto is semi-rimmed, but the pressure is a lot higher than .455 revolvers were designed for. The British War Department put out a notice on the subject at one time. On much the same subject, if you have one of those .455 Webleys (Mks I-VI) that were converted to use .45 ACP with moon clips, DO NOT fire standard or mil spec .45 ACP or any heavier .45 ACP load in it. Some of those guns have blown with normal .45 ACP GI ammo. In spite of the Webley lovers, even the Mk VI is not the strongest revolver in the world or anywhere near it. So don't blow one of those old timers trying to prove it is. Also, the often-made statement that the Colt autos made for the .455 Auto are identical to the .45 ACP gun. Not true, even the frames are different to take the wider magazines, and barrels and slides are different. Jim

September 21, 2011, 10:44 AM	#32
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Yep, that is what Colt marked them. Without a time machine, I doubt we will ever know why. Note that a .455 magazine is wider than a .45 ACP magazine and won't fit in the .45 ACP pistol. At a gun show a couple of years ago, I mentioned that to a dealer who had a .455 magazine on his table. He called me "a dumb [color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color]" and said they were the same. He picked up a .45 ACP pistol and tried to put the .455 magazine in it. It wouldn't go. Then he hammered the mag on the table, then on the floor, bending the lanyard loop and the base plate lip. He finally got it almost in, turned to me (I was standing there, horror struck) and said, triumphantly, "See, dummy, it fits." I walked away shaking my head at a fool who would ruin a $150 magazine because he was too stupid to concede a point. Jim

September 21, 2011, 07:18 PM	#33
30-30remchester Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2009 Location: mountains of colorado Posts: 977	Hornaday is now manufacturing 455 Webley MKII ammo.

September 23, 2011, 01:43 PM	#34
rabbit Junior member Join Date: September 15, 2011 Posts: 37	hi yes 30-30 horday is making standard .455 amoo , but not the .455 auto

September 24, 2011, 03:28 AM	#35
gyvel Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2009 Location: Northern AZ Posts: 7,172	Bit of a PITA, but .455 Self Loading can be easily made by trimming back .45 Colt cases, cutting an extractor groove and thinning and turning the rims down a bit. Generally it is best to fire them in a wide open area with a brass spotter, though.

September 24, 2011, 11:39 AM	#36
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Hi, Gyvel, What kind of bullet did you use? I did the same thing with cases, but I had a problem and never did really solve it. The .455 Auto bullet that is outside the case is almost a round ball, and I couldn't get bullets that would seat properly yet be within the COAL. Of course, regular .45 ACP with the bullets seated deeper will work in both the .455 Colt and the Webley because the extractor will hold the case, but that is not really the way to go. Jim

September 25, 2011, 11:45 PM	#37
gyvel Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2009 Location: Northern AZ Posts: 7,172	I'll have to dig out my old Lyman book to get the number, but, if I recall, I used a 200 grain lead round nose of theirs. The rounds worked well enough, but I was rewarded with a cracked grip and an hour long hunt for the brass. LOLL Regarding .45 ACP, I have only had success using the naval auto as a single shot, since, as you pointed out, the OAL is lionger than the .455

September 26, 2011, 12:05 AM	#38
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I said earlier that I didn't know why Colt called the cartridge(s) the .455 Eley instead of the .455 Webley. I mentioned the question to a friend yesterday and his reply may be the answer. He said that Eley didn't make guns, only ammo, and that Colt never would put the name of a competitor, even a foreign one, on its guns. Jim

September 26, 2011, 05:56 AM	#39
gyvel Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2009 Location: Northern AZ Posts: 7,172	That would make sense^^^^^^^^^^.

November 26, 2011, 09:14 PM	#42
Asgardnz Member Join Date: November 4, 2011 Location: New Zealand Posts: 35	Old Fiocchi .455 ammunition I had used to split the cases easily. I hope their cases are better these days. Modern Hornady brass should be good.