Which is better Moss 500 or Rem 870 or Ithaca riot gun? - Page 2

BaldEagle · April 21, 2000, 11:28 AM

Strange, I don't recall any name-calling with my post tackdriver, that would be juvenile. As for the great debate over Mossberg v. Remington: I believe the Remington to be a better firearm due to the superior framework the gun is built upon, better attention to detail, and-as no argument is without-personal preference. Also, I’ve seen the tang safeties on Mossbergs simply fall off, the forearm rattles, the action is rough, as opposed to the Remington which utilizes better alloy in the receivers, has a smoother action, and just appears to be put together better.

If you guys would like to continue the discussion, please contact me at my email address at [email protected] so we don’t tie up any more board time-

Moe · April 21, 2000, 03:37 PM

ajacobs.

You can indead buy a sidesaddle for your ithaca. Tac Star makes them. They hold 6 and you can buy them from Milarm Co. LTD. in Edmonton Alberta, Canada. Ph 780-424-5281.

Or you might find a U.S. dealer.

Moe.

Shin-Tao · April 21, 2000, 08:19 PM

Mossberg receivers don't use substandard metals, they use lighter metals. The design was laid to be rugged and light.
One reason I prefer them is that their lightnes makes them easier to maneuver and track a moving target with.
I have extensive experiance with the Mossy and the Remington, and I happen to like the Mossy. Most shotgunners like the Remington.
No one's preferance makes them ignorant or a redneck.

Patrick Graham · April 23, 2000, 02:21 PM

The mossberg 500 is hard to beat because it's light. It's easy to swing that puppy around. On the flip side, 3 inch mags out of a light mossberg is an "experience".

Dave McC · April 23, 2000, 08:37 PM

Weight, to some extent, in a HD shotgun is no bad thing. A bellednwhistled 870 that BALANCES OK is a joy to shoot with even heavy loads,and handles just fine.

The HD 870 here at Casa McC weighs around 9 lbs and shoots very well.

Shin-Tao · April 23, 2000, 08:51 PM

Weight sure does soften the kick of mags. I don't use mags that often at all in my 12bores so for me, the recoil isn't really an issue. I use Remington high velocity Game loads for HD and 00, 000, or flechettes for any non-HD actions.

[This message has been edited by Shin-Tao (edited April 24, 2000).]

April 24, 2000, 09:17 AM

Since when are flechettes legal for HD? And on the subject of recoil, the Mossberg really needs a decent recoil pad. The hard rubber one they provide just doesn't cut it.

Has anyone noticed that shotguns always seem to have a longer length of pull than rifles? Why is this? I had to put the "bantam" buttstock on my 590 (LOP 13" including 1" aftermarket recoil pad), and it's just right. Anyone have the same problem?

Coronach · April 24, 2000, 09:45 AM

Eh. Edited because I misunderstood a previous post. *slaps forehead*

Mike

[This message has been edited by Coronach (edited April 24, 2000).]

Shin-Tao · April 24, 2000, 12:20 PM

HD = Remington High Velocity game loads.

Just curious, what laws mention flechettes anyway?
I don't use the factory straight stock.

[This message has been edited by Shin-Tao (edited April 24, 2000).]

April 24, 2000, 02:22 PM

Well, in CA, flechettes are specifically prohibited (except for police, of course). Where are you? I suppose I just assumed flechettes would be grouped along with armor piercing rounds, tracers, etc. (you know, the stuff no one "needs"). I don't recall ever seeing any for sale anywhere.

Shin-Tao · April 24, 2000, 03:03 PM

Flechettes in 12 and .410 are advertised in FireQuest, Delta Press and I believe, Shotgun News. The same people that make Dragons Breath make them. However, they are unreasonably expensive. But the steel darts themselves are available for reloading.
I would deploy the flechettes only against armored BGs, ala HollyWood shoot-out loonies, or targets at the edge of shotgun range. Flechettes have greater range than 000 for instance.
Use of flechettes are not defencible in court of cource, so they are only for use in really bad sits, like say, an AR15 or G3.
I am not familiar with CA laws. I assumed these shells were attainable every where. Silly me. I underestimated the scope of our friendly socialists in charge.

Yellowdog · April 25, 2000, 01:16 PM

BaldEagle:

I may be mistaken but didn't the Marine Corps switch from Remington 870's to Mossberg 590's and if so does that make them redneck's (aren't they supposed to be leathernecks...) On a different note, I think I might prefer the Mossberg 500 (I very well might be a redneck too but that's not why I like the Mossberg). The only two pump shotguns I've seen malfunction were two Remington 870's! Based on that, I bought a Mossberg 500 a couple of years ago and have yet to have any problems with it (i.e. it has yet to jam and the safety hasn't fallen off).

Dave McC · April 29, 2000, 07:01 AM

Jeff, sorry tot ake so long to respond, some #$%^&*( lowlife virused our computers and it's taken this long to get back up.

Shotgun stocks are longer because they're pointed,not aimed, on flying/running targets. The length aids the swing and lead. Rifles are aimed,and a shorter stock is in order to better acquire the sights.

For our purposes, there's leeway. For HD and general shooting, the standard stock of roughly 14 1/4" pull fits the mythical average guy of 5'9", medium build. I'm 6'2", heavy build,and shoot the standard stock well enough. I can also do acceptable work with the 13 1/2" Youth stock if I have to, tho the standard does work better with me.

For wingshooting, many folks would do better with a longer,straighter stock. On my bird 870, I've shimmed the stock a bit to reduce the drop about 1/4", which doesn't sound like much but moves the pattern maybe a foot at 25 yards.A longer recoil pad added a bit to the length, giving about a 14 1/2" pull.

houndawg · April 30, 2000, 07:57 AM

I've never shot the 500 or the Ithaca. We use the 870P at IDOC. One thing I've noticed about it is it kicks a hell of a lot harder than a lot of shotguns I've used. A lot of the guys I work with have Mossberg 500's and they say they are much more of a pleasure to shoot.

Patrick Graham · April 30, 2000, 08:57 AM

houndawg
I'm just thinking out load here , I wonder if maybe it's the ammunition that made the 870 seem like it kicks harder. Not all magnum loads are equal. I've shot some Winchester primo 3 inch mags out of my mossy 500 that just about made me cry.

houndawg · May 1, 2000, 01:38 PM

Patrick,

I can't remember, but I don't think the loads we qualified with were magnum loads. I think they were 2 3/4" standard loads. We used #7, #4, 00, and slugs.

April 21, 2000, 11:28 AM	#26
BaldEagle Junior Member Join Date: September 29, 1999 Posts: 6	Strange, I don't recall any name-calling with my post tackdriver, that would be juvenile. As for the great debate over Mossberg v. Remington: I believe the Remington to be a better firearm due to the superior framework the gun is built upon, better attention to detail, and-as no argument is without-personal preference. Also, I’ve seen the tang safeties on Mossbergs simply fall off, the forearm rattles, the action is rough, as opposed to the Remington which utilizes better alloy in the receivers, has a smoother action, and just appears to be put together better. If you guys would like to continue the discussion, please contact me at my email address at [email protected] so we don’t tie up any more board time-

April 21, 2000, 03:37 PM	#27
Moe Member Join Date: December 6, 1998 Location: Fredericton, NB., Canada Posts: 97	ajacobs. You can indead buy a sidesaddle for your ithaca. Tac Star makes them. They hold 6 and you can buy them from Milarm Co. LTD. in Edmonton Alberta, Canada. Ph 780-424-5281. Or you might find a U.S. dealer. Moe.

April 21, 2000, 08:19 PM	#28
Shin-Tao Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2000 Posts: 1,528	Mossberg receivers don't use substandard metals, they use lighter metals. The design was laid to be rugged and light. One reason I prefer them is that their lightnes makes them easier to maneuver and track a moving target with. I have extensive experiance with the Mossy and the Remington, and I happen to like the Mossy. Most shotgunners like the Remington. No one's preferance makes them ignorant or a redneck.

April 23, 2000, 02:21 PM	#29
Patrick Graham Junior member Join Date: January 18, 1999 Location: Kokomo, Indiana USA Posts: 674	The mossberg 500 is hard to beat because it's light. It's easy to swing that puppy around. On the flip side, 3 inch mags out of a light mossberg is an "experience".

April 23, 2000, 08:37 PM	#30
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Weight, to some extent, in a HD shotgun is no bad thing. A bellednwhistled 870 that BALANCES OK is a joy to shoot with even heavy loads,and handles just fine. The HD 870 here at Casa McC weighs around 9 lbs and shoots very well.

April 23, 2000, 08:51 PM	#31
Shin-Tao Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2000 Posts: 1,528	Weight sure does soften the kick of mags. I don't use mags that often at all in my 12bores so for me, the recoil isn't really an issue. I use Remington high velocity Game loads for HD and 00, 000, or flechettes for any non-HD actions. [This message has been edited by Shin-Tao (edited April 24, 2000).]

April 24, 2000, 09:17 AM	#32
Jeff, CA Guest Posts: n/a	Since when are flechettes legal for HD? And on the subject of recoil, the Mossberg really needs a decent recoil pad. The hard rubber one they provide just doesn't cut it. Has anyone noticed that shotguns always seem to have a longer length of pull than rifles? Why is this? I had to put the "bantam" buttstock on my 590 (LOP 13" including 1" aftermarket recoil pad), and it's just right. Anyone have the same problem?

April 24, 2000, 09:45 AM	#33
Coronach Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 1999 Posts: 3,147	Eh. Edited because I misunderstood a previous post. slaps forehead Mike [This message has been edited by Coronach (edited April 24, 2000).]

April 24, 2000, 12:20 PM	#34
Shin-Tao Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2000 Posts: 1,528	HD = Remington High Velocity game loads. Just curious, what laws mention flechettes anyway? I don't use the factory straight stock. [This message has been edited by Shin-Tao (edited April 24, 2000).]

April 24, 2000, 02:22 PM	#35
Jeff, CA Guest Posts: n/a	Well, in CA, flechettes are specifically prohibited (except for police, of course). Where are you? I suppose I just assumed flechettes would be grouped along with armor piercing rounds, tracers, etc. (you know, the stuff no one "needs"). I don't recall ever seeing any for sale anywhere.

April 24, 2000, 03:03 PM	#36
Shin-Tao Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2000 Posts: 1,528	Flechettes in 12 and .410 are advertised in FireQuest, Delta Press and I believe, Shotgun News. The same people that make Dragons Breath make them. However, they are unreasonably expensive. But the steel darts themselves are available for reloading. I would deploy the flechettes only against armored BGs, ala HollyWood shoot-out loonies, or targets at the edge of shotgun range. Flechettes have greater range than 000 for instance. Use of flechettes are not defencible in court of cource, so they are only for use in really bad sits, like say, an AR15 or G3. I am not familiar with CA laws. I assumed these shells were attainable every where. Silly me. I underestimated the scope of our friendly socialists in charge.

April 25, 2000, 01:16 PM	#37
Yellowdog Member Join Date: December 14, 1999 Location: Northridge, California Posts: 24	BaldEagle: I may be mistaken but didn't the Marine Corps switch from Remington 870's to Mossberg 590's and if so does that make them redneck's (aren't they supposed to be leathernecks...) On a different note, I think I might prefer the Mossberg 500 (I very well might be a redneck too but that's not why I like the Mossberg). The only two pump shotguns I've seen malfunction were two Remington 870's! Based on that, I bought a Mossberg 500 a couple of years ago and have yet to have any problems with it (i.e. it has yet to jam and the safety hasn't fallen off).

April 29, 2000, 07:01 AM	#38
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Jeff, sorry tot ake so long to respond, some #$%^&*( lowlife virused our computers and it's taken this long to get back up. Shotgun stocks are longer because they're pointed,not aimed, on flying/running targets. The length aids the swing and lead. Rifles are aimed,and a shorter stock is in order to better acquire the sights. For our purposes, there's leeway. For HD and general shooting, the standard stock of roughly 14 1/4" pull fits the mythical average guy of 5'9", medium build. I'm 6'2", heavy build,and shoot the standard stock well enough. I can also do acceptable work with the 13 1/2" Youth stock if I have to, tho the standard does work better with me. For wingshooting, many folks would do better with a longer,straighter stock. On my bird 870, I've shimmed the stock a bit to reduce the drop about 1/4", which doesn't sound like much but moves the pattern maybe a foot at 25 yards.A longer recoil pad added a bit to the length, giving about a 14 1/2" pull.

April 30, 2000, 07:57 AM	#39
houndawg Senior Member Join Date: February 8, 2000 Location: Illinois Posts: 479	I've never shot the 500 or the Ithaca. We use the 870P at IDOC. One thing I've noticed about it is it kicks a hell of a lot harder than a lot of shotguns I've used. A lot of the guys I work with have Mossberg 500's and they say they are much more of a pleasure to shoot.

April 30, 2000, 08:57 AM	#40
Patrick Graham Junior member Join Date: January 18, 1999 Location: Kokomo, Indiana USA Posts: 674	houndawg I'm just thinking out load here , I wonder if maybe it's the ammunition that made the 870 seem like it kicks harder. Not all magnum loads are equal. I've shot some Winchester primo 3 inch mags out of my mossy 500 that just about made me cry.

May 1, 2000, 01:38 PM	#41
houndawg Senior Member Join Date: February 8, 2000 Location: Illinois Posts: 479	Patrick, I can't remember, but I don't think the loads we qualified with were magnum loads. I think they were 2 3/4" standard loads. We used #7, #4, 00, and slugs.