Would they drop the tea cup grip on TV?

Glenn E. Meyer · September 29, 2012, 09:51 AM

Just a rant. Watching some cop shows last night (dramas) and all the officers looking tough as nails with war faces on - use the silly tea cup grip on their Glocks. Don't they have an advisor?

I see new shooters come to the range using it and then have problems.

Well, what do I expect from TV?

Amsdorf · September 29, 2012, 09:53 AM

Funny you should mention that, I can't help but analyze closely how the use of firearms on TV reflects reality.

I think one of the most realistic presentations of firearm use is in the series "Strike Back" a British show.

What impresses me is how well they show pistol and rifle use and how realistic, relatively speaking, they present it. The guys shooting do NOT hit the target right off the bat.

Sure, it is still TV, but more realistic than most I've seen.

.

RH · September 29, 2012, 11:59 AM

I have reworked my grip once I found out that ye olde teacup was passe and not as effective as hand-over hand, but have your tried that on one of the newer CC guns? On my TCP, the trigger pull is so long, and I have a problem sometimes not fully releasing the trigger and letting it return to zero for the 2nd shot, that hand over hand is impossible. Teacup is the only way to get a 2nd hand on there without interfering with trigger and/or slide.

drail · September 29, 2012, 02:05 PM

The tea cup hold isn't as bad as the stupid
wrap left hand around right wrist hold that Clint Eastwood demonstrates perfectly in the scene on the police range in Magnum Force. You have to wonder how much the movie studios pay these "experts"?

**Tom Servo** · September 29, 2012, 08:50 PM

Quote:

I see new shooters come to the range using it and then have problems.

This, the Clint Eastwood grip Drail mentioned, and the weak thumb behind the strong one when gripping an automatic, are the three most common mistakes I have to correct.

It's on the TV Lookity Box, which Americans spend more time with than almost everything else, so I doubt we'll see a change. We just have to settle for fixing the problem as it presents itself.

**Mike Irwin** · September 29, 2012, 09:37 PM

I use the tea cup grip at times.

Why?

Because I can hit the target while holding the gun that way.

If there's any more advanced criteria for why/why not to use it, I really don't care, because I'll be hitting the target.

**Tom Servo** · September 29, 2012, 10:04 PM

Quote:

If there's any more advanced criteria for why/why not to use it, I really don't care, because I'll be hitting the target.

Any particular reason you prefer it? I've tried it, and I have to struggle to keep a consistent grip from shot to shot when doing cup-saucer.

And frankly, if it doesn't work for me, it's not tactical, and therefore not worth doing.

(Disclaimer: I have no earthly idea what tactical means any more.)

**Mike Irwin** · September 29, 2012, 10:17 PM

It works particularly well for me when I'm shooting a small handgun where the grips are cramped.

And unless you have Picatinny rails surgically bolted to the backs of both hands, you're just a tactical wanna be...

mete · September 30, 2012, 09:09 AM

Wrap around grip may be " OK " for revolvers but bad for autos.At an indoor range with glass separating me from the shooters i lent my pistol to someone .When he wrapped his hand around his wrist I waved NO .He couldn't hear me because of the glass , thought I was kidding ,and fired .The two sharp rails on the bottom of the slide put two sharp grooves across his thumb !!!

Pain and blood

I said I waved NO. He said he thought I was kidding !

Mike38 · September 30, 2012, 09:34 AM

What is a tea cup grip?

Jo6pak · September 30, 2012, 10:37 AM

I use the dreaded teacup grip when shooting my GP100 (the only revolver I own) It's natural for me and I hit what I'm aiming at.

Sure it may not be the latest, cutting-edge, tactidoodledandy approved method; but it works for me.

With my Autos, I use different grips for different guns. Whatever gets me on target. I'm more concerned with hitting stuff instead of looking the part.

RickB · September 30, 2012, 11:22 AM

"Cup and saucer" is the popular term, though I suppose the cup could be a teacup.

Worse than the c-a-s is the two-handed grip with both index fingers in the trigger guard. I tend to see this most commonly with actresses.

ChaseReynolds · September 30, 2012, 11:53 AM

My wife and some of her friends went to a class that was supposed to be more female friendly when it comes to teaching about firearms. Well when I took her to the range after I found out that they taught the cup and saucer grip. I told her that she shouldn't do it and I showed her the way I know. I had to explain to her that the way she was shown to shoot she might as well shoot with one hand. Since then I have corrected it and she shoots well. Lesson here is that I am never letting my wife go learn about guns with her girlfriends.

drail · September 30, 2012, 11:55 AM

When I was an NRA instructor the most common problem we had to correct was people crossing their thumbs behind the slide of a semi auto pistol. If you didn't catch them in time you had to administer first aid. Amazingly the other day I watched a video shot at Les Baer's factory and they went onto his range to test some guns. Les is apparently left handed and he crosses one of his thumbs BEHIND the slide when he shoots. He never got bit but I was amazed that he learned to shoot that way. (maybe he has some type of medical/physical problem with his hand)

tekarra · September 30, 2012, 12:58 PM

The "Magnum Force" grip with the left hand on the right wrist was quite common at that time.

Sefner · September 30, 2012, 01:12 PM

Just to be that guy, but any profession who watches a show that involves something related to their profession will point out inaccuracies. I'm sure cops who watch COP shows think to themselves "like that would ever happen", or pilots watch movies with planes and roll their eyes at the glaring inaccuracies. I would be willing to bet every mechanic and car enthusiast scoffed at the Fast and Furious movies (the Vin Diesel ones, not the Eric Holder ones).

g.willikers · September 30, 2012, 05:14 PM

Some of the techniques were developed when revolvers were king.
Like the holding of the wrist or with thumbs crossed behind the hammer.
While they're not so hot with auto loaders, they still can do ok with wheel guns, especially those that have lots of muzzle rise and recoil.
The cup and saucer, two handed grip is still useful for slow, precision shots when recoil control and fast shooting are not important.
It's essentially a one handed shot with the weight of the gun supported by the other hand.
With practice, it all works.

**Tom Servo** · September 30, 2012, 06:55 PM

Quote:

And unless you have Picatinny rails surgically bolted to the backs of both hands, you're just a tactical wanna be.

Hey, I'm trying to find a doctor to do the procedure, but nobody will cooperate.

KMAX · September 30, 2012, 09:18 PM

I think cup and saucer is the grip I use with my 45colt. I don't have much experience with this gun yet and have a hard time holding it steady for 50 yard shots. I shoot at silouhettes and can do fine on torso shots. It is just the head shots I am still shaky on. I am sure I will improve with more range time. I figure if it works why worry about what anybody else thinks. I don't use the cup and saucer for any of my other guns, only the single action 45 Colt. I don't like to see the thumb behind the slide hold with autos because I have seen too many ripped thumbs, so I try to stop people before they do it. I do keep band-aids in my wallet and range bag for the times I can't save a thumb. I did it one time when I was a kid and only got my thumb scraped, not cut, but it was enough to teach me to not do that again.

I tried the Magnum Force grip, but couldn't see the point to it myself. If it works for you though go for it.

aarondhgraham · October 1, 2012, 08:45 AM

I trained using Cup & Saucer grip,,,

When I was in the AF (70-78) the handgun I carried was a S&W Model 15,,,
The Rangemaster at Hahn AFB gave me the first quality training I ever received.

I don't know what other instructors did,,,
But this old TSgt taught the Cup & Saucer grip exclusively,,,
It couldn't have been all that bad as I soon qualified expert using C&S.

I have had more modern instruction in recent years,,,
I think the grip I use now is a bit tighter (steadier) than C&S.

I do find it humorous though,,,
Every time I pick up a K-Frame S&W revolver,,,
My mind goes back in time and I automatically go to C&S grip again.

I'm kinda with Mike Irwin's thinking here:

If it ain't broke,,,
There's no need to fix it.

Aarond

.

**Frank Ettin** · October 1, 2012, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by g.willikers

...The cup and saucer, two handed grip is still useful for slow, precision shots when recoil control and fast shooting are not important.
It's essentially a one handed shot with the weight of the gun supported by the other hand...

I suspect that there might be something to this. I wonder if anyone has a documented study of the history and evolution of handgun shooting techniques.

The "cup-and-saucer" seems to do a decent job of helping steady the gun, but also seems less efficient for recoil management. While the current "hand-over-hand" technique seems to have developed largely for recoil management.

shortwave · October 1, 2012, 11:29 AM

There are certain revolvers I prefer to use the C&S grip on when bullseye shooting at the range. Mostly longer bbl'ed, heavier,softer felt recoiling revolvers. Again, this is slow fire, bullseye shooting. I seem to be able to steady the pistol better this way.

TailGator · October 2, 2012, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Quote:
And unless you have Picatinny rails surgically bolted to the backs of both hands, you're just a tactical wanna be.
Hey, I'm trying to find a doctor to do the procedure, but nobody will cooperate.

I'd be willing to help you out. I have an OR and a power drill. If we need anything else, there is a Lowe's down the street.

I'm a veterinarian, though - you wouldn't like where I put the thermometer.

jimbob86 · October 2, 2012, 03:38 PM

Quote:

When I was in the AF (70-78) the handgun I carried was a S&W Model 15,,,
The Rangemaster at Hahn AFB gave me the first quality training I ever received.

The Weaver Stance and Cooper's Modern Tecnique of the Pistol had been proven superior to everything else two decades before Jimmah C's heyday ..... that bein so, how was your training "quality"?

saltydog452 · October 2, 2012, 09:17 PM

Just a guess based on personal perceptions from loong ago, but I seem to remember that the cup and saucer as an attempt to move from structured Bullseye dicipline to using two hands.

Established Mantras like grip, stance, and breath control were suddenly less important. Shooters would no longer chalk an outline of foot position. Sight changes would no longer follow the path of the sun.

Revolutionary.

salty

September 29, 2012, 09:51 AM	#1
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	Would they drop the tea cup grip on TV? Just a rant. Watching some cop shows last night (dramas) and all the officers looking tough as nails with war faces on - use the silly tea cup grip on their Glocks. Don't they have an advisor? I see new shooters come to the range using it and then have problems. Well, what do I expect from TV? __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens

September 29, 2012, 09:37 PM	#6
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,381	I use the tea cup grip at times. Why? Because I can hit the target while holding the gun that way. If there's any more advanced criteria for why/why not to use it, I really don't care, because I'll be hitting the target. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

September 29, 2012, 10:17 PM	#8
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,381	It works particularly well for me when I'm shooting a small handgun where the grips are cramped. And unless you have Picatinny rails surgically bolted to the backs of both hands, you're just a tactical wanna be... __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

September 30, 2012, 09:09 AM	#9
mete Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2004 Location: NY State Posts: 6,575	Wrap around grip may be " OK " for revolvers but bad for autos.At an indoor range with glass separating me from the shooters i lent my pistol to someone .When he wrapped his hand around his wrist I waved NO .He couldn't hear me because of the glass , thought I was kidding ,and fired .The two sharp rails on the bottom of the slide put two sharp grooves across his thumb !!! Pain and blood I said I waved NO. He said he thought I was kidding ! __________________ And Watson , bring your revolver !

September 30, 2012, 10:37 AM	#11
Jo6pak Senior Member Join Date: August 5, 2010 Location: West Coast...of WI Posts: 1,663	I use the dreaded teacup grip when shooting my GP100 (the only revolver I own) It's natural for me and I hit what I'm aiming at. Sure it may not be the latest, cutting-edge, tactidoodledandy approved method; but it works for me. With my Autos, I use different grips for different guns. Whatever gets me on target. I'm more concerned with hitting stuff instead of looking the part. __________________ NRA Life Member, SAF contributor.

September 29, 2012, 09:53 AM	#2
Amsdorf Junior member Join Date: July 24, 2011 Location: Saint Louis, Missouri Posts: 849	Funny you should mention that, I can't help but analyze closely how the use of firearms on TV reflects reality. I think one of the most realistic presentations of firearm use is in the series "Strike Back" a British show. What impresses me is how well they show pistol and rifle use and how realistic, relatively speaking, they present it. The guys shooting do NOT hit the target right off the bat. Sure, it is still TV, but more realistic than most I've seen. .

September 29, 2012, 11:59 AM	#3
RH Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 1999 Posts: 532	I have reworked my grip once I found out that ye olde teacup was passe and not as effective as hand-over hand, but have your tried that on one of the newer CC guns? On my TCP, the trigger pull is so long, and I have a problem sometimes not fully releasing the trigger and letting it return to zero for the 2nd shot, that hand over hand is impossible. Teacup is the only way to get a 2nd hand on there without interfering with trigger and/or slide.

September 29, 2012, 02:05 PM	#4
drail Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2008 Posts: 3,150	The tea cup hold isn't as bad as the stupid wrap left hand around right wrist hold that Clint Eastwood demonstrates perfectly in the scene on the police range in Magnum Force. You have to wonder how much the movie studios pay these "experts"?

September 30, 2012, 09:34 AM	#10
Mike38 Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2009 Location: North Central Illinois Posts: 2,710	What is a tea cup grip?

September 30, 2012, 11:22 AM	#12
RickB Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2000 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 8,518	"Cup and saucer" is the popular term, though I suppose the cup could be a teacup. Worse than the c-a-s is the two-handed grip with both index fingers in the trigger guard. I tend to see this most commonly with actresses.

September 30, 2012, 11:53 AM	#13
ChaseReynolds Senior Member Join Date: March 29, 2012 Location: Fort Riley, Kansas Posts: 186	My wife and some of her friends went to a class that was supposed to be more female friendly when it comes to teaching about firearms. Well when I took her to the range after I found out that they taught the cup and saucer grip. I told her that she shouldn't do it and I showed her the way I know. I had to explain to her that the way she was shown to shoot she might as well shoot with one hand. Since then I have corrected it and she shoots well. Lesson here is that I am never letting my wife go learn about guns with her girlfriends.

September 30, 2012, 11:55 AM	#14
drail Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2008 Posts: 3,150	When I was an NRA instructor the most common problem we had to correct was people crossing their thumbs behind the slide of a semi auto pistol. If you didn't catch them in time you had to administer first aid. Amazingly the other day I watched a video shot at Les Baer's factory and they went onto his range to test some guns. Les is apparently left handed and he crosses one of his thumbs BEHIND the slide when he shoots. He never got bit but I was amazed that he learned to shoot that way. (maybe he has some type of medical/physical problem with his hand)

September 30, 2012, 12:58 PM	#15
tekarra Senior Member Join Date: May 26, 2007 Posts: 1,164	The "Magnum Force" grip with the left hand on the right wrist was quite common at that time.

September 30, 2012, 01:12 PM	#16
Sefner Senior Member Join Date: June 24, 2009 Location: Michigan Posts: 769	Just to be that guy, but any profession who watches a show that involves something related to their profession will point out inaccuracies. I'm sure cops who watch COP shows think to themselves "like that would ever happen", or pilots watch movies with planes and roll their eyes at the glaring inaccuracies. I would be willing to bet every mechanic and car enthusiast scoffed at the Fast and Furious movies (the Vin Diesel ones, not the Eric Holder ones). __________________ gtalk:renfes steamID: Sefner

September 30, 2012, 05:14 PM	#17
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	Some of the techniques were developed when revolvers were king. Like the holding of the wrist or with thumbs crossed behind the hammer. While they're not so hot with auto loaders, they still can do ok with wheel guns, especially those that have lots of muzzle rise and recoil. The cup and saucer, two handed grip is still useful for slow, precision shots when recoil control and fast shooting are not important. It's essentially a one handed shot with the weight of the gun supported by the other hand. With practice, it all works. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

September 30, 2012, 09:18 PM	#19
KMAX Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2011 Location: Texas Posts: 1,185	I think cup and saucer is the grip I use with my 45colt. I don't have much experience with this gun yet and have a hard time holding it steady for 50 yard shots. I shoot at silouhettes and can do fine on torso shots. It is just the head shots I am still shaky on. I am sure I will improve with more range time. I figure if it works why worry about what anybody else thinks. I don't use the cup and saucer for any of my other guns, only the single action 45 Colt. I don't like to see the thumb behind the slide hold with autos because I have seen too many ripped thumbs, so I try to stop people before they do it. I do keep band-aids in my wallet and range bag for the times I can't save a thumb. I did it one time when I was a kid and only got my thumb scraped, not cut, but it was enough to teach me to not do that again. I tried the Magnum Force grip, but couldn't see the point to it myself. If it works for you though go for it. __________________ This is my gun. There are many like her, but this one is mine. I'm not old. I'm CLASSIC! Last edited by KMAX; September 30, 2012 at 09:25 PM.

October 1, 2012, 08:45 AM	#20
aarondhgraham Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2009 Location: Stillwater, OKlahoma Posts: 8,638	I trained using Cup & Saucer grip,,, I trained using Cup & Saucer grip,,, When I was in the AF (70-78) the handgun I carried was a S&W Model 15,,, The Rangemaster at Hahn AFB gave me the first quality training I ever received. I don't know what other instructors did,,, But this old TSgt taught the Cup & Saucer grip exclusively,,, It couldn't have been all that bad as I soon qualified expert using C&S. I have had more modern instruction in recent years,,, I think the grip I use now is a bit tighter (steadier) than C&S. I do find it humorous though,,, Every time I pick up a K-Frame S&W revolver,,, My mind goes back in time and I automatically go to C&S grip again. I'm kinda with Mike Irwin's thinking here: If it ain't broke,,, There's no need to fix it. Aarond . __________________ Never ever give an enemy the advantage of a verbal threat. Caje: The coward dies a thousand times, the brave only once. Kirby: That's about all it takes, ain't it? Aarond is good,,, Aarond is wise,,, Always trust Aarond! (most of the time)

October 1, 2012, 11:29 AM	#22
shortwave Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2007 Location: SOUTHEAST, OHIO Posts: 5,970	There are certain revolvers I prefer to use the C&S grip on when bullseye shooting at the range. Mostly longer bbl'ed, heavier,softer felt recoiling revolvers. Again, this is slow fire, bullseye shooting. I seem to be able to steady the pistol better this way.

October 2, 2012, 09:17 PM	#25
saltydog452 Senior Member Join Date: August 16, 2004 Posts: 516	Just a guess based on personal perceptions from loong ago, but I seem to remember that the cup and saucer as an attempt to move from structured Bullseye dicipline to using two hands. Established Mantras like grip, stance, and breath control were suddenly less important. Shooters would no longer chalk an outline of foot position. Sight changes would no longer follow the path of the sun. Revolutionary. salty