New Winchester 94?

[Mastrogiacomo]

Hi,

Quick question, I read a lot of talk about the early model 94s. Is there something wrong quality wise with the company that their new products are too flawed to consider?

Laura

[SARuger]

94AE? I have one from 1981 or 1982 and its flawless, a very good reliable rifle

[JWT]

The guns being manufactured by Miroku in Japan under the Winchester brand are of excellent quality in all respects.

[DPris]

The new ones are excellent quality, but with modified actions and high prices.
Trigger pulls & lever cycling are both heavier than the older designs.
Denis

[Mastrogiacomo]

What about the current Winchester 94 30-30? Would anyone buy a new model or would you only consider an older model?

Edit to add, are you saying the current model is Japanese made? I thought those guns went for $2K. My understanding is that Browning took over this particular model...and since Browning makes solid guns, wouldn't their current production be on par with the pre 64 models that everyone wishes they had? Thank you.

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

In the mid-to late 1950s, a management change at Winchester led to an extensive and extremely controversial redesign of their firearms in 1964. Prior to 1964. All models of Winchesters were basically hand fitted together for reliability and longevity by journeyman gunsmiths. This is regarded by many as the year (1964) the "real" Winchester ceased to be, Consequently causing "all pre-'64 rifles to command higher prices than those made afterwards." Sadly highly skilled blue collar lay offs, debatable redesigns, foreign and domestic competition, all lead to Winchester Repeating Firearm demise.

What about the current Winchester 94 30-30? Would anyone buy a new model or would you only consider an older model?

Nope only the older Winchester models am I interested in owning.

[DPris]

Browning manufactures nothing.

I'm referring to the ONLY current Win Model 94 made- the Japanese Miroku-manufactured rifles.

Browning bought the rights to license "Winchester" marked guns for the parent company of both Browning and Winchester, which is FNH in Belgium.

Browning can sell & service & import Winchester branded guns made in the US & abroad under this license from the Olin Corp who owns the trade name.

Browning imports the Japanese-made Winchester Model 94 (has BAC for Browning Arms Corp stamped on the barrels).

Same service location for Browning & Winchester in Missouri.
Same corporate headquarters for both companies in Utah.

There has been no US-made Winchester-marked levergun since the old plant closed down in 2006.
Denis

[Mastrogiacomo]

Wow...Japan...I didn't realize...thank you for the history of what's happened to the company since 2006...looks like a 94 is in my future. Thank you again.

[Paul B.]

I have M94s in 30-30 and ,32 Win. Spl. one made in 1911 and the .32 in 1951. I also have a pair of Winchester M64s which are just a nice variation of the 94 with well shaped pistol grip and half magazines. I also have a 1981 issue M94 in 30-30 and it in comparison is a piece of junk. That one resides in the back seat of my truck.
Paul B.

[tahoe2]

I have a 1974 "top eject" Model 94 in 30-30 that averages 3" groups @ 100 with a Williams peep (rear) and a Gold bead up front.
I only have about 500 rounds through it, but it works great. However it's the only 94 I've ever shot, so nothing to compare it to.
My other levers are a Marlin 375 and a Savage Model 99. I've heard that the Miroku (Japan) guns are very well made!

[Guv]

USRAC 94's are very nice guns, offered in many different calibers (7-30Waters, 307Win, 356Win, 375WIn, 444Marlin) and variations. Much better than the post 64 Model 94's. Also allow the ability to mount a scope right over the receiver.

[DPris]

The USRAC guns varied in quality & deteriorated toward the end.

By the time the plant was closed in '06, USRAC was owned by FNH & USRAC was really just the plant, it wasn't a stand-alone company.
Denis

[T. O'Heir]

Winchester is just a brand name now. It's gone through several owners in the past 10 years or so. QC has varied.
"...Browning manufactures nothing..." Browning is just a brand name too.
"...controversial redesign of their firearms in 1964..." That was about updating the manufacturing techniques. People still argue about stamped vs milled vs investment non-essential parts.

[Guv]

I had quite a few USRAC 94AE's and never had an issue with any of them. Quality was at least as good as my Marlins from the same era. I didn't have any from the end of their production though.

[BlueTrain]

From what I have read, people believe that nothing is made the way it used to be and is basically junk, no matter what the product. And they've been saying that since before I was born. But they may only be referring to products they can actually afford. Clearly, there are a number of products that are not only as good as they used to be but in many cases, still made exactly the same way they used to be. Some details might be debatable, however.

What we lose sight of is that a gun like a Winchester was considered an ordinary gun and hardly something that would satisfy a sportsman (a man who hunted who had money). He had to have, oh, a Parker. The distinction was even greater in Europe and the U.K. But in these latter days, we tend to think of a Winchester 94 as the epitome of the gunmaker's craft. It was good, to be sure, but to those who purchased them, they were working guns. They were what the guides carried.

[DPris]

The traditional market for the 94 for most of it's duration as a domestic production rifle was as an affordable working gun.

With the switch to Japanese production, quality improved overall, numbers were lowered, and prices were raised.

Browning/Winchester had a short-term no-production agreement with the union after the US plant was closed.
Once that ran out, the decision-makers wanted to bring the 94 back & looked at several possible countries.

They already had a long-time relationship with Miroku, Miroku was capable of putting out a quality product, and Miroku was familiar with leverguns.

Miroku did not have enough room to set up high-volume numbers of the 94, and along with the high price the model has moved from affordable working gun to more of a nostalgic niche gun now.
Just like the 92s & 86s.

The quality is better than anything USRAC put out in its last decade of operation, but many of us dislike the rebounding hammer & tang safety incorporated into current designs.
Denis

[Guv]

And for the price it should be, shouldn't it.

[kcub]

The quality is better than anything USRAC put out in its last decade of operation, but many of us dislike the rebounding hammer & tang safety incorporated into current designs.

Which had to have been requirements of lawyers and management. I hope they have them like they want them because they are going to have to buy the ones I would have bought had they not fixed that which was not broke.

[DPris]

When they were putting the re-intro project together, I had several email conversations with the project manager.

I was excited at the prospect of them being able to take advantage of starting essentially from the ground up, with new equipment & processes, and most of all- USING that opportunity to dump the USRAC-era rebounding hammer, angle ejection, and manual safety.

A return to the classic original design, uncluttered by all that annoying nonsense.

I lobbied hard, but was told the bottom line was- "The lawyers won't let us."
And you see the result today.

They don't want high-volume production, they don't want to return the gun to its status as the "workingman's rifle", and they will not put out a classic Winchester levergun design in original un-tampered-with form.

What they do is excellent quality, and they deserve at least some credit for keeping a 94 version going.
But, I'm sticking to my two older 94s.
Denis

[stubbicatt]

For the money spent, a fella can buy a really decent used late 1800's to early 1900's Model 94 for not a whole lot more than the new ones. And he can get a "rifle" rather than a carbine, which to my eye anyways, is more pleasing. And the crescent buttplate sure makes shooting off of the rifleman's hind legs a whole lot easier.

Of course one can spend a whole lot of money if he wishes, and get a collector's grade too. Some of them are really lovely to look at.

[BlueTrain]

The question is, from the manufacturer's point of view, would a "working man's gun" sell if they made the Model 94 the way it was made whenever you thought it was perfect? In other words, what do "working men" buy now? Not sportsmen, who would probably buy a Weatherby but people like you and maybe me. I get things with the weekend paper that offer guns that are fairly low priced that probably more would buy instead of a lever action.

Keep in mind here that companies cannot control costs the way you think they can. That's true everywhere, not just in the United States. There have been firearms that went out of production because costs kept rising and the selling prices could not be raised high enough, apparently, so they could be sold. That's not the only reason certain models go out of production but that's one important factor for some of them, like the Savage 99 and the older Mannlicher–Schönauer sporting rifles.

Did the old Model 94s actually shoot any better than more recent production guns, allowing for their age?

[DPris]

No, but how they shot isn't the entire picture.
Denis

[kcub]

I saw some tang safety ruined model 64s at Cabelas. $2500

I wasn't remotely tempted.

[Guv]

That's insane.

[kcub]

Also the Winchester 1873 doesn't have the goofy tang safety. Why the discrepancy?

I think I could live with this one.