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Old July 26, 2016, 01:16 PM   #26
Brian Pfleuger
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Prone and calm/rested with a bipod on an undisturbed animal at 400 yards, using a flat shooting rifle with a high-power scope? That's a walk in the park. I can hit a woodchuck in the head at that distance.

Under typical big game hunting conditions, with my heart pounding from just having made a stalk, resting on a backpack, with a lower powered scope on a light-weight gun, with an animal that's jittery because it thinks maybe it saw something where I am... that's a whole 'nother thing.

So many scenarios, so few blanket answers to give us a nice clean answer for them all.
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Old July 26, 2016, 04:49 PM   #27
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My longest shot on a deer was at 465 yards and it was DRT. But I probably let a 100 walk before I took the shot. I hunt a large field from a stand that I built as a shooting bench. It measures 8 X 8 and is 8 foot off the ground and has a solid bench built into it. I practice a lot from that stand and I have ranged the entire field. I printed out a map of the field from Google Earth and use a RF to check distances. If I hunt a new area the first thing I do now is print out a map of the area and using a RF I plot distances and record them on the map.

My magnum rifles are sighted in at 300 yards, everything else is set at 200 yards. When I hunt this field and a deer steps out I know within 25 yards the distance to the animal. Most of my shots are at 300-350 yards. There is a ditch there and the deer seem to follow the ditch out into the field.

So, if you plan on shooting game animals at far distances then get comfortable shooting beyond your comfort zone. That means from prone, hanging from trees like Tarzan, whatever. But I practice from my bench all year long. A lot! I started out using cardboard targets with 2 inch stickers at 500 yards. Now I shoot steel plates with 2 inch black painted dots. I'm aiming at the dot, not the plate. You really don't want to injure an animal at long range. By the time you get to where you shot him he may have travelled a long ways. Here in the south he may have crossed several creeks and shoved his way through thickets that would stop a tank. And most likely it will be dark thirty by that time too.

And shoot the biggest and most accurate caliber that you can handle. I prefer to see daylight through them when I pull the trigger.
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Old July 26, 2016, 07:19 PM   #28
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Just something that everybody should know; the USGS provides maps and information.

http://nationalmap.gov/ustopo/

If a person is walking into unknown territory, whether or not a gps device is available, a printed topo map will be a lifesaver if needed. GPS devices can get broken batteries die. A flat topo map gives all of the information you would need, and if you are any good at reading topography, you can find yourself just by your surroundings, and map out a clear and safe path. A reason that I would prefer a physical map is that it is a full, wide, clearly drawn map, rather than a thing the size of a paperback.
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Old July 26, 2016, 09:21 PM   #29
reynolds357
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It just all depends on how good you can shoot. It is in all honesty more ethical for me to shoot a deer at 600 yds than it is for some of the knuckle heads that hunt on the adjoining land to shoot at deer at 100 yds. One of them missed a buck at under 15 yards, using a rifle. It is bad to miss with a bow at 15 but a rifle???
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Old July 26, 2016, 09:32 PM   #30
johnwilliamson062
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Quote:
One of them missed a buck at under 15 yards, using a rifle.
With some scopes on a moving deer, not running, just moving, not too difficult to do. Should know his equipment better, but doesn't surprise me.

If I use a scope on my deer gun I also have irons for close shots. may not get a perfect cheek weld, but inside 50 yards it doesn't much matter.
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Old July 26, 2016, 11:24 PM   #31
Brian Pfleuger
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I hunted with a guy that missed a whole herd (literally, a herd) with 5 shots from a semiauto 12ga when they were standing about 25 feet from him. They didn't run until he started flailing around to reload. Only my dad and I saw that fiasco.

Same guy missed one with his muzzleloader, resting on the side of his truck, with the deer broadside and stationary at about 40 yards. That one had 1/2 dozen witnesses.

But, just because he can't, don't mean I can't.
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Old July 27, 2016, 09:40 AM   #32
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Let me toss another thought ij. We've read and heard all of the ideas, even from boon and Crockett, now let's ask the deer.

Missing the kill zone is not the same thing as missing the deer.
from Denver post.


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Old July 27, 2016, 10:07 AM   #33
old roper
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braindg, that first deer you posted was shot 2008 and they posted reward on who shot her.

http://www.denverpost.com/2008/12/31...nding-of-deer/
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Old July 27, 2016, 10:24 AM   #34
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The thing about hunting is some people get buck fever and some don't. If you are one that gets excited and can't control your breathing or heart rate I would suggest letting them walk at that distance. If you dont get excited then either you are just getting meat for the freezer or maybe you shouldn't be hunting. Taking a long shot just for the challenge isn't good hunting ethics in my book.

I wish I had a dollar for everytime I've heard someone say ( I wouldn't normally shoot that far but I couldn't let that trophy walk away) and I'd say most hunters aren't capable of guessing the correct holdover at 400 yards. I have a 400 yard range in my back yard and I've never taken a shot that far. I'm very capable and have rifles purposely built for shooting that far but they aren't my normal hunting rifles. I've lost a deer before and I can't sleep after losing one.
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Old July 27, 2016, 12:26 PM   #35
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Proper, I can't understand how anyone even shot a deer in the nose. Another shot that should not have been take. I'm not sure why a reward was posted, unless it was poaching.

The second one is probably photshopped. But, they are examples of whAt happens.

Ed Lyle was at deer camp with my dad, and missed a shot, but blew up the things back knee. Then, he drove it back to camp by chasing and poking it. If it had gotten away, he'd have let it go and waited for another one.
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Old July 27, 2016, 01:01 PM   #36
Brian Pfleuger
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You have to realize that there are millions of hunters and multiple millions of shots taken every year.

The fact that there are a few (literally, a few) pictures and discoveries of oddly wounded animals is no surprise. If 0.0001% of shots caused a "freak" wound, there'd still be dozens of them. It is not necessarily indicative of slob hunters taking unethical shots.

A friend of mine showed me pictures of a doe that he shot through the head with a bow. She had been standing broadside at a laser ranged 18 yards. At some point between "too late to stop the shot" and "before the arrow got there", she whipped her head back against her side, as if a horse fly or something had just bit her. He couldn't explain the exact timing of it, which is understandable considering that the time between "squeeze" and "impact" might be a 1/2 second and it's pretty hard for the human brain to properly sequence unexpected events in such a short window of memory.

Weird stuff happens.

It is silly, IMO, to separate out a single variable such as distance and draw an arbitrary line somewhere between "ethical" and "unethical".

I've killed many dozens of deer. I lost count years ago. I've wounded a few. Every one of them was a close range, "gimme" shot where I can't explain what went wrong. The longest shots I've ever taken, while not "long" by the context of this thread, have all been successful.

There's a lot more to it than distance.
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Old July 27, 2016, 06:32 PM   #37
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My cousin is a marvelous shot with rifle, black powder rifle, and bow. That said, I did find a doe one cold crisp winter morning. She just stood there as I walked up to her. Had an arrow hanging in her rectum. Too weak to move. I put her out of her misery. It was my cousin's arrow. I never told him, knowing he'd feel terrible. And one day I was skinning out a big buck, with the cousin standing by and drinking my coffee. He made some snide comments about my marginal bullet placement. And just about then, there was a "clunk". Not supposed to be a "clunk", so I looked around and found a flattened musket ball that had fallen from under the skin of the buck. Knowing exactly where that ball had come from, I handed it to the cuz and said "I think this is yours". He shut up about my shot placement. Point being that even the best of shooters aren't always perfect.

I saw the cuz put 3 arrows in a group you could cover with your palm at 90 yards.
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Old July 27, 2016, 10:41 PM   #38
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If I counted the squirrels that I have gotten bad hits on, or missed entirely, I'd quit hunting. Fortunately,squirrels rarely survive a hit with a .22 even if it's a marginal hit. Blow off a leg,they'll go on with their life. Bird shooting is sort of similar, if they are hit badly enough they will drop, but a few pellets, you could expect birds than survive with a few pellets in the skin. Rifle and how hunting big game is a unique situation, imo. The non lethal hit zone is big. Probably over half of the body in some game animals is a crippling hit that could still let one escape into hiding and never be found. For a lot of years, I home hunted tree rats with a .177.

IF I CARED, I'd be disgusted with all the cripples I lost. With the domestic predators,they didn't live long. Anything that hit the ground that I shot was a dog toy for a few gruesome minutes. Oh, boy, that little beast loved her rodents.

This was pest control, I feel differently about that.
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Old July 27, 2016, 10:53 PM   #39
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603, I understand about cuz. Like I said, until I get my body built back up, the zombies are safe. I could do one inch bench groups with my favorite rifle, now, three is about the best I can do. After a box of rounds at 2-3 or so, I fired a guys bolt .223 and missed a steel eight inch going four times. Really kind of unhappy.
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Old July 28, 2016, 06:15 AM   #40
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briandg, I gather your not from Co or hunt Co. T.hat picture was a boost to the anti-hunting crowd here.

Elbert county is mostly private land and it's east of I-25 and is known as Plains game unit and it's a draw tag. They have different hunt dates and they have archery season in Dec when that deer was shot. Colorado DOW regs covers how to handle wounding of wildlife and can be a felony if not done right even if the animal gets onto private property.

Like I said that deer got lot of press and landowners put that reward up to find out who shot that deer. It was a bad shot and bad deal for all bow hunters here.
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Old July 28, 2016, 10:14 AM   #41
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Deer regs here are to make "reasonable" effort, no trespassing, and you can't leave "meat" in the field. You can get in real trouble for tossing acarcass into any sort of water.

We allow hunters here to literally harvest an entire herd over all the seasons, types, special areas, a really dedicated hunter, some years, can legally shoot Mar be even six or more, this year it looks like only four, with higher counts for management areas. They are even a pest in some places. I would assume that game in co is a precious commodity, being as an out of state hunter may put a thousand bucks into a hunt.
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Old July 28, 2016, 02:00 PM   #42
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I never hear someone say "Yeah, I shot my deer from 120 yards" here in Arizona any more. It's always 400, 500, 600 now. My cousin, who probably spends 100x the amount of time in a nail salon as she does practicing shooting, shot a mule deer at 495 yards last year. Her husband is a guide and a hell of a hunter and basically just set her up to pull the trigger. It's really not that hard when you have the gear.

I understand the thinking of people in states where deer are as thick as grasshoppers but out here there's a lot of realities that make those long shots far more common. One of them is low deer/acre and almost 100% public land hunting. If you get the opportunity to take ANY shot you're ahead of most.


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Old July 29, 2016, 12:47 AM   #43
Art Eatman
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Bottom line seems to be, once again, that there is no one size which fits all hunters in all situations.

But we've wandered around enough, here.
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