Anticipating recoil--how to stop it?

[DAL]

I just got back from the range where I noticed a disturbing habit. Somewhere I started to anticipate recoil with my handguns. I noticed it when I did a dummy drill with my revolver, but I am sure I was doing it with my semi-auto also. Any suggestions on how to stop this nonsense?
DAL

P. S. BTW, I finished off with 50 rounds through my 617 .22, with which I made a conscious effort not to anticipate recoil. Of course, there's almost no recoil with it anyway, so I am not so sure how much it helped, but it was good to revisit the fundamentals.

[9mmMike]

This post seems out of place in here but I'm not sure why....

Anyway, I would suggest dry firing, alot.
It would also be helpful to have a buddy load your mags for you at the range and insert a snap cap or dummy round to see how bad your flinch is. Dry firing is good practice for smooth trigger pull and front sight control. You could use the "balance a penny on the front of the slide" method but I find that I can tell fairly easily if my front sight has moved during dry fire practice.
Good luck,
Mike

[DAL]

If this post is out of place here, please move it to a more suitable area. Maybe I misunderstood the heading "Lock and Load: Live Fire Exercises."

9mmMike, I dry fire quite a bit already and I have don't have the problem when I do so. Maybe I'm fighting the recoil too much? I don't know, and that's why I'm hoping someone with experience with this problem can help.
DAL

[BigG]

This is one of the big reasons that people like that nice surprise break trigger pull. You can't anticipate if you don't know when it is going to go off.

[9mmMike]

DAL,
Your post is probably fine in here. I am just not used to seeing anything other than a review of some school or an upcoming TFL event posted in this forum.
Anyhoo....
What caliber are you shooting? Some monster thing with heavy recoil? Perhaps you need to spend some time shooting a smaller caliber or softer load.
My bride was having this problem with her Kahr. She spent a whole lot of time dry firing the thing (trigger like rowing a boat) and she did much better at the next range session.
Are there any instructors at the range where you shoot? Maybe they can help you.
Mike

[Edward429451]

Know just what you mean. Little presence in mind that thinks its going to hurt you or whatever. Tell him to shut up! Ignore him and force yourself to follow through. Remind yourself that you will live through it. Sounds wacked but it works.

Having a bud load for you with a light load or snapcap helps. Tell yourself that this shot is the only one that counts and I will follow through no matter what. For each and every shot.

Feels good to drop the hammer on that 7th round from a .44 mag and see that front sight stay right where its supposed to instead of dipping.

Another thing I did to overcome it is to practice with light loads until no problems and some where down the line start slipping in one hot one and spin the cylinder so you dont know when its up, and then shoot. (This next one IS a light one in your mind until its too late, then you wont flinch and you realize that it really aint that bad)

It's all in the mind. The mind can be controlled and conditioned.

[Correia]

Something that I've found that helps is calling your shots. What I mean by that is you have taken a mental picture of exactly where your sights were in relation to your target when the shot broke. You know where your bullet is going to hit with out ever looking at the target. You are very aware as you do this. As you work on it, you will get to where you actually SEE your muzzle blast. When you are aware of what is going on, you are in control. You know exactly what your muzzle and sights are doing. You are driving your gun like you would drive a car.

It is hard to explain, but when you are getting it, it really works.

But then again, I still don't ever win any matches. So you know what my advice is worth.

[DanP]

I conquered a bad flinch habit completely some time ago by doing exactly what the folks above are telling you - matter of fact those same folks probably told me the same thing earlier this year.

And what I found contributed the most: bought a .22 and shot it lots lots lots. Found myself somehow "conditioned" after that.

[DAL]

When I noticed the flinch, for lack of a better term, I was shooting my S&W Model 19 with .38 Spl. handloads. This was after I had fired my 625 .45 ACP and my CZ75BD 9mm. So, as you can see, I can't blame it on a hand-cannon type of caliber.

One thing I am completely sure of, though, is that it is a mental error. Somehow I've conditioned myself into this behavior, and now I'll have to work at getting out of it. The suggestions above seem a good place to start, especially the ones about the .22 and calling my shots (I'm STILL working on this). I noticed almost immediately the difference when I fired the .22 revolver.

Another thing I'll try is to slow down just a tad. I was practicing double taps, but I was forgetting the basics in my effort to go faster. It seems that along with the mantra "front sight, front sight" I'll now have to also chant "only hits count."
DAL

[PvtPyle]

I highly recommend shooting a bolt action .50, WITHOUT the muzzle brake. It will make you laugh at most other rifles and shotguns.

This is the same program I am working on with my wife. She wants to shoot the AK's (already has the AR's down to a science) but the recoil is somewhat frightening to here. So, she gets to shoot the SVD and G3 without recoil pads or brakes. Then we move to the AK's and viola! The recoil is nothing anymore!

[9mmMike]

Is that a joke? That sounds like a great way to build a flinch to me. To each his own, I guess but I sure would not do something like that.
Mike

[Jamie Young]

I always do it if I don't shoot that often. Its pretty much a given for me. I always just accept it and put in the range time and it goes away.

[FlyinGN]

I have this problem too and it causes my to fire low on the target.. IM droppping my muzzel the last instant before th eshot.. Its VERY hard to overcome but Im trying. I do a lot of dry firing and it seems to help..

Frank

[enkidu]

It's been said before, but I'd like to summarize the advice I've tried to follow over the years regarding flinching:

• Dry fire: Aimed dry firing while concentrating on the target and your front sight.
• Practice with an air pistol: A decent air pistol (Daisy 747 is my recommendation for a fine price/performance ratio) will teach you the wonders of keeping your gun steady as you pull the trigger and after it releases; the wonders of follow-through.
• Practice with random snap caps: Load several mags with snap caps mixed randomly in, shake them up in a bag and pick one at random. Or have a friend load the mag with a random snapcap for you. You'll definitely be able to tell if you are flinching. This helps to diagnose, but doesn't really correct the problem in my opinion.
• Concentrate: concentrate on the front sight being on the target. The trigger is moving but doesn't concern you, only the front sight and the target matters.
• Visualize: think of the act of aiming and pulling the trigger, visualize yourself following through as the bullet leaves the barrel.
• Practice with light loads: Practice with a .22 or lightly loaded ammunition. Given good sage advice, I started with a .22 Buckmark and after 2000 or so rounds through it and countless dry firings (with snap cap of course) I do not have flinch with my new 9mm or .45. Of course, if I take up full house .454 loads, I may develop a flinch myself. Willing to try and find out if someone will buy me the gun and ammo .
• Keep your eyes open: If you can't see your muzzle flash, you aren't keeping your eyes open. Wear good eye protection and watch your front sight. When you see the muzzle flash and the silhouette of your font sight, you are doing good. This will also let you call your shots as Correia advises.

Remember, as Edward429451 said, it's all in your mind. Your mind controls your body.

Hope this was useful to someone.

EnkiduEOT

[Hand_Rifle_Guy]

Anticipating recoil is NOT the same as flinching.

When I had inconsistent misfires in my S.A.S.S in .358 Winchester, (A disconnector problem, since fixed.) I found myself shoving the gun forward briskly whenever the cartridge failed to go off. (.358 Winchester generates PRODIGIOUS recoil in a handgun. Heck, it's pretty stout out of a rifle!) This gun is nothing short of painful to shoot, so if any gun's going to generate flinch issues, this is the one.

However, I discovered that this was NOT affecting where my shots were going. I was not anticipating the recoil BEFORE the hammer dropped, I was simply being proactive about recoil control. The sights were correctly aligned when the hammer dropped, so the forward shove was in response to the hammer drop itself, and was not a flinch moving the sights around before the shot went off.

Flinches occur either before or as the hammer drops, throwing aim off to who-knows-where. Anticipating recoil does not have to do that.

Experimenting with this handgun chambered in a 9mm rifle round established that what I initialy thought was a flinch didn't affect point of impact WHEN THE GUN WENT OFF. It only ever showed up dry-firing or when the darn thing misfired. I would suggest analyzing closely the set of actions in and around actually firing a shot. Have someone else watch while you shoot to try and determine just WHEN in the firing cycle this "flinch" is occurring.

Flinching tests like dummy rounds in the mag, or empties in the cylinder loaded by someone else can reveal recoil anticipation, and make it look a lot worse than it is. It depends on when the gun starts moving in a timespan measured in milliseconds. THAT will take some very sharp looking.

Most of all, don't convince yourself you have a problem if in fact you don't. Are you still grouping OK? Can you call your shots? Maybe it's not as bad as it seems on the surface. Checking it with flinch tests can really make you feel like a failure without actually pointing at a problem. If the bullets go where you want consistently, who cares how you push the gun around when you drop the hammer on an empty?

Of course, the usual caveat applies, what worked for me might not help you a bit. But make sure you actually HAVE a problem before you make a strenuous effort to fix it by changing your established shooting regimen that's been working fine putting the bullets where they belong. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."