What causes this malfunction in a Ruger SR1911?

BarryJGraham · October 6, 2013, 04:44 PM

Hi

I'm having problems with a new Ruger SR1911 which I am getting ready to send back, but I am a bit curious as to what is causing my malfunctions. I'm experiencing some kind of FTF. Please see the enclosed pictures. Both rounds you see in the pictures are live. The casing of the last round fired was ejected. It looks like the top round missed the extractor and was bumped half way into the barrel and the slide then hung up behind the next round. This happens every other magazine. What would cause this?

Regards

Barry

j2flan · October 6, 2013, 06:42 PM

If those are factory loads and they pass the "plunk" test, I would look at the mags first, and maybe try another brand, is it just with one of your mags or both?

Crankgrinder · October 6, 2013, 07:55 PM

im not a 1911expert but we have some here. It looks to me like the top round is hanging on the ejector. Soon some 1911 guys will chime in hopefully

James K · October 6, 2013, 08:17 PM

Ruger factory magazines? Factory ammo? Any changes made to the gun?

I think I know the problem, but would like more info.

Jim

Sarge · October 6, 2013, 08:54 PM

I would check the extractor tension first.

Nanuk · October 6, 2013, 09:31 PM

Try another magazine in the gun.

LivewireBlanco · October 6, 2013, 09:38 PM

Sounds like the mag. If you have more than one see if you can see if it's a certain one. If not, get you a new mag (you want more anyways) preferably Chip McCormick or Wilson Combat. See if that does the trick.

**Aguila Blanca** · October 6, 2013, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BarryJGraham

It looks like the top round missed the extractor and was bumped half way into the barrel and the slide then hung up behind the next round. This happens every other magazine. What would cause this?

Weak magazine spring.

BarryJGraham · October 7, 2013, 12:44 AM

Thanks for all your responses so far. Here are some answers to asked questions:

This is a brand new gun using factory ammo (Magtech 45a). I'm having this problem with both the Ruger magazines. The ammo passes the "plunk test".

RickB · October 7, 2013, 12:54 AM

Looks like "inertia feed"; the magazine does not retain the top round securely and it's pitched forward out of the mag under recoil (actually, it's more like the mag being pulled out from under the round which remains stationary). It can be weak mag springs, but it can also be splayed feedlips.

tipoc · October 7, 2013, 01:08 AM

It is most likely the magazines. Try another brand of mags. You will want to do this anyway.

tipoc

geetarman · October 7, 2013, 06:44 AM

Quote:

I would check the extractor tension first.

That was the problem with mine. Once tensioned properly, no problems since.

polyphemus · October 7, 2013, 06:53 AM

A head scratcher,it's new so back it goes of course.Having wrote that;
how did that round get half way in with the slide back behind the next round
still loaded in the magazine?
They do have a rather stiff recoil spring and the magazines look like Check-Mates with xtra power springs hybrid guide lips,I would try GI's before I ship it.
Good luck

MJFlores · October 7, 2013, 06:59 AM

I would do the basic trouble shooting 101 on your gun before sending it back. I agree with others, first just try a new magazine. I'm not aware of any bad lots of Ruger magazines but if it's a new problem we should all hear about it soon. I would also try a good cleaning on the gun, and lubricate the slide and feed ramp well and then try the same ammo to see if the problem still exists. If it does keep everything the same but change ammo and see if things change. I'm betting you'll find it's an ammo or magazine issue.

dahermit · October 7, 2013, 07:23 AM

Drawing on my experiances with the 1911, two of the most likely causes are, an improperly bent extractor, and/or insufficient strength of the magazine spring.
If it were the extractor, it would have to be way off. Pull the extractor. Does it require some tension to pull it out of the tunnel, or does it drop right out? Usually when the extractor is not bent enough, you would get an empty case jammed straight forward into the side of the ejection port as a symptom, so I suspect your malfunction is caused by something other than the extractor.
If it were the last round in the magazine that was malfunctioning, that would point to "inertia feed", caused by people using non-dimpled, non-standard, increased capacity (more than seven), magazines. However, I see that it is not the last round that jammed.
I see that the case is in front of the extractor hook...which leads me to believe that the problem could very well be, insufficient magazine spring tension.
If you are using factory standard, round-nose ammo, the ammo is not likely the problem.
Nevertheless, 1911tuner will likely be along shortly and being knowledgeable as he is, should be able to easily solve the problem...he is quite expert in the subject of 1911's.

Tactical Jackalope · October 7, 2013, 09:07 AM

Double feed. Tap, rack, bang.

Most likely a magazine issue. If not it's an extractor issue.

3.Shot.Group. · October 7, 2013, 09:51 AM

Too much tension on the extractor not letting the round's rim slip under it. Relieve the tension and/or put a slight radius on the bottom of the extractor so the round can slip under it.

Tactical Jackalope · October 7, 2013, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Too much tension on the extractor not letting the round's rim slip under it. Relieve the tension and/or put a slight radius on the bottom of the extractor so the round can slip under it.

I see that like back surgery. Waaaaaaaaay too complicated with a 1911 extractor.

polyphemus · October 7, 2013, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Relieve the tension and/or put a slight radius on the bottom of the extractor so the round can slip under it.

On top of the one that's already there?
And how does that help this issue?It's a new pistol ok?and modifying it in any way may just affect the warranty if a different magazine does not resolve it
then Ruger will.

JWT · October 7, 2013, 10:36 AM

If it's a new gun why not just call Ruger and make arrangement to send it back to them. They should pay for the shipping both ways. their customer service is excellent and their turn around times are usually very good.

polyphemus · October 7, 2013, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Tap, rack, bang.

What?
The picture shows a round already in the chamber and the slide back ready to
strip another one.
The extractor has not engaged it so after the "tap"nothing is going to happen,
no need to "rack" because the slide is all the way back and the "bang" is not
forthcoming after the above ritual.
This pistol should not malfunction and if it does Ruger should repair it.

DAVID NANCARROW · October 7, 2013, 11:15 AM

ever remove the extractor and clean the part and the tunnel? Depending on the round count, you might be surprised at how much junk accumulates in the tunnel.

dahermit · October 7, 2013, 11:19 AM

Do a search on this forum (1911, extractor, jamming, etc.)...seems to me there was an identical complaint a few months ago.

The normal cycling of the 1911 has the extractor groove of the case coming up inside of the extractor hook on the extractor. Something is happening to make the case come up from the magazine, in front of the extractor hook.
As doctors are told: "First do no harm." Do the following in order:
1)Inspect the extractor, and the tunnel for manufacturing/shooting debris. There may be something obvious. Observe the loading cycle by manually working the slide and watching how the extractor groove on the case slides up under the extractor hook.

2)Try a seven-round magazine that is known to function in other 1911's. This will tell you if the magazine springs are weak, or the magazine's fault in general.

2) Do no metal alteration until the cause of the problem has been determined to a certainty. Is is best, not a Bubba be. Understanding should come first, "fixing"/altering last.

BarryJGraham · October 7, 2013, 11:57 AM

As this is a new gun I will not be modifying it in any way, as this could void my warranty. I will try it with another magazine for curiosity's sake to see if that is the problem.

Total round count now is about 300 rounds.

Thanks you all so much for all you replies.

I started this thread, because I couldn't understand how this malfunction could occur. The only chain of events I can see that would cause this would be the following:

1: Round fired
2: Slide moves back, extracts and ejects casing
3: The top round in the magazine either has moved forward and misses the extractor or skips the extractor
4: Slide moves forward and hangs up on the second round (now the top round in the magazine)

I'm not at all sure about step three? Is this possible at all?

polyphemus · October 7, 2013, 12:24 PM

A Colt owner reported that his rounds were being chambered ahead of the
extractor,this is a similar issue but in that case the slide was closing and
then binding,he sent it out but last we heard Colt did not repair it and the issue
was still present when he got it back.He tried other type magazines without
success maybe that will resolve it for you.Something's funky with that#3.

October 6, 2013, 06:42 PM	#2
j2flan Member Join Date: August 17, 2008 Location: S.E. TN. Posts: 45	If those are factory loads and they pass the "plunk" test, I would look at the mags first, and maybe try another brand, is it just with one of your mags or both? __________________ Caution: The 380 cartridge is capable of inflicting minor skin irritations that could lead to infection.

October 6, 2013, 08:54 PM	#5
Sarge Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2002 Location: MO Posts: 5,457	I would check the extractor tension first. __________________ People were smarter before the Internet, or imbeciles were harder to notice.

October 6, 2013, 09:31 PM	#6
Nanuk Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2005 Location: Where the deer and the antelope roam. Posts: 3,082	Try another magazine in the gun. __________________ Retired Law Enforcement U. S. Army Veteran Armorer My rifle and pistol are tools, I am the weapon.

October 7, 2013, 11:19 AM	#23
dahermit Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2006 Location: South Central Michigan...near Posts: 6,501	Do a search on this forum (1911, extractor, jamming, etc.)...seems to me there was an identical complaint a few months ago. The normal cycling of the 1911 has the extractor groove of the case coming up inside of the extractor hook on the extractor. Something is happening to make the case come up from the magazine, *in front of* the extractor hook. As doctors are told: "First do no harm." Do the following in order: 1)Inspect the extractor, and the tunnel for manufacturing/shooting debris. There may be something obvious. Observe the loading cycle by manually working the slide and watching how the extractor groove on the case slides up under the extractor hook. 2)Try a seven-round magazine that is known to function in other 1911's. This will tell you if the magazine springs are weak, or the magazine's fault in general. 2) Do no metal alteration until the cause of the problem has been determined to a certainty. Is is best, not a Bubba be. Understanding should come first, "fixing"/altering last. Last edited by dahermit; October 7, 2013 at 11:33 AM.

October 7, 2013, 11:57 AM	#24
BarryJGraham Junior Member Join Date: August 17, 2013 Posts: 4	As this is a new gun I will not be modifying it in any way, as this could void my warranty. I will try it with another magazine for curiosity's sake to see if that is the problem. Total round count now is about 300 rounds. Thanks you all so much for all you replies. I started this thread, because I couldn't understand how this malfunction could occur. The only chain of events I can see that would cause this would be the following: 1: Round fired 2: Slide moves back, extracts and ejects casing 3: The top round in the magazine either has moved forward and misses the extractor or skips the extractor 4: Slide moves forward and hangs up on the second round (now the top round in the magazine) I'm not at all sure about step three? Is this possible at all? Last edited by BarryJGraham; October 7, 2013 at 12:18 PM.

October 6, 2013, 07:55 PM	#3
Crankgrinder Senior Member Join Date: July 24, 2011 Location: Texas Posts: 917	im not a 1911expert but we have some here. It looks to me like the top round is hanging on the ejector. Soon some 1911 guys will chime in hopefully

October 6, 2013, 08:17 PM	#4
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Ruger factory magazines? Factory ammo? Any changes made to the gun? I think I know the problem, but would like more info. Jim

October 6, 2013, 09:38 PM	#7
LivewireBlanco Member Join Date: September 19, 2012 Location: West Texas Posts: 64	Sounds like the mag. If you have more than one see if you can see if it's a certain one. If not, get you a new mag (you want more anyways) preferably Chip McCormick or Wilson Combat. See if that does the trick.

October 7, 2013, 12:44 AM	#9
BarryJGraham Junior Member Join Date: August 17, 2013 Posts: 4	Thanks for all your responses so far. Here are some answers to asked questions: This is a brand new gun using factory ammo (Magtech 45a). I'm having this problem with both the Ruger magazines. The ammo passes the "plunk test".

October 7, 2013, 12:54 AM	#10
RickB Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2000 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 8,518	Looks like "inertia feed"; the magazine does not retain the top round securely and it's pitched forward out of the mag under recoil (actually, it's more like the mag being pulled out from under the round which remains stationary). It can be weak mag springs, but it can also be splayed feedlips.

October 7, 2013, 01:08 AM	#11
tipoc Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2004 Location: Redwood City, Ca. Posts: 4,114	It is most likely the magazines. Try another brand of mags. You will want to do this anyway. tipoc

October 7, 2013, 06:53 AM	#13
polyphemus Senior Member Join Date: June 24, 2012 Posts: 1,055	A head scratcher,it's new so back it goes of course.Having wrote that; how did that round get half way in with the slide back behind the next round still loaded in the magazine? They do have a rather stiff recoil spring and the magazines look like Check-Mates with xtra power springs hybrid guide lips,I would try GI's before I ship it. Good luck

October 7, 2013, 06:59 AM	#14
MJFlores Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2013 Posts: 539	I would do the basic trouble shooting 101 on your gun before sending it back. I agree with others, first just try a new magazine. I'm not aware of any bad lots of Ruger magazines but if it's a new problem we should all hear about it soon. I would also try a good cleaning on the gun, and lubricate the slide and feed ramp well and then try the same ammo to see if the problem still exists. If it does keep everything the same but change ammo and see if things change. I'm betting you'll find it's an ammo or magazine issue.

October 7, 2013, 07:23 AM	#15
dahermit Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2006 Location: South Central Michigan...near Posts: 6,501	Drawing on my experiances with the 1911, two of the most likely causes are, an improperly bent extractor, and/or insufficient strength of the magazine spring. If it were the extractor, it would have to be way off. Pull the extractor. Does it require some tension to pull it out of the tunnel, or does it drop right out? Usually when the extractor is not bent enough, you would get an empty case jammed straight forward into the side of the ejection port as a symptom, so I suspect your malfunction is caused by something other than the extractor. If it were the last round in the magazine that was malfunctioning, that would point to "inertia feed", caused by people using non-dimpled, non-standard, increased capacity (more than seven), magazines. However, I see that it is not the last round that jammed. I see that the case is in front of the extractor hook...which leads me to believe that the problem could very well be, insufficient magazine spring tension. If you are using factory standard, round-nose ammo, the ammo is not likely the problem. Nevertheless, 1911tuner will likely be along shortly and being knowledgeable as he is, should be able to easily solve the problem...he is quite expert in the subject of 1911's.

October 7, 2013, 09:07 AM	#16
Tactical Jackalope Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2010 Location: Miami, Florida Posts: 6,429	Double feed. Tap, rack, bang. Most likely a magazine issue. If not it's an extractor issue.

October 7, 2013, 09:51 AM	#17
3.Shot.Group. Junior member Join Date: June 24, 2013 Posts: 208	Too much tension on the extractor not letting the round's rim slip under it. Relieve the tension and/or put a slight radius on the bottom of the extractor so the round can slip under it.

October 7, 2013, 10:36 AM	#20
JWT Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 2007 Location: Southern Arizona Posts: 3,888	If it's a new gun why not just call Ruger and make arrangement to send it back to them. They should pay for the shipping both ways. their customer service is excellent and their turn around times are usually very good.

October 7, 2013, 11:15 AM	#22
DAVID NANCARROW Senior Member Join Date: November 5, 2000 Location: Wyoming Posts: 1,761	ever remove the extractor and clean the part and the tunnel? Depending on the round count, you might be surprised at how much junk accumulates in the tunnel.

October 7, 2013, 12:24 PM	#25
polyphemus Senior Member Join Date: June 24, 2012 Posts: 1,055	A Colt owner reported that his rounds were being chambered ahead of the extractor,this is a similar issue but in that case the slide was closing and then binding,he sent it out but last we heard Colt did not repair it and the issue was still present when he got it back.He tried other type magazines without success maybe that will resolve it for you.Something's funky with that#3.