Carving New Stocks

Leedavisone · October 23, 2008, 08:34 PM

I work for a manufacturer of Carving Duplicators, and they market a Gunstock Duplicator that I had the pleasure of helping to design. I have been using one that I borrowed from the company some time ago (I am a furniture maker and engineer by profession), but I have used duplicators for 20 years now. I am fairly new to working on gunstocks, and I have heard many of the positive comments on the duplicators. But I have some questions about serious gunsmithing and stock making, since I really am ignorant about the fine points.
I received a Savage 110 from my wife for a recent birthday (I told her what I wanted)... and it comes with a synthetic stock. Ugly, but functional, especially for the $379 she had to pay at Walmart! I bought a beautiful piece of walnut for a new stock, knocked it out in a few hours, all varnished and ready, and dropped the barrel and trigger in with no trimming (the duplicators are pretty good (take a look at "carving duplicator" on Ebay).
But I have a question... We hear back from all the people that buy the duplicators that before they buy, they want to know how accurate it is for 'bedding' a barrel. Radarcarve (the manufacturer) guarantees accuracy to
.005, which I assume is fairly good, for woodwork. So, I know that the gunstock makers are very particular. Why?
This question comes about because I made this stock for my Savage, and the synthetic stock essentially is held by two screws up into the barrel, and nothing else. The forward part of the synthetic stock appears to be free floating and not even touching the barrel. It seems to me that all that secures the stock to the barrel is the two screws, the 'bedding be damned'. It shoots superbly with the new stock, don't get me wrong. But am I missing something here? One group says that 'bedding' is critical, the original company stock says a different story.
Can someone help me out with this? How critical is 'bedding' a stock. Can it be free flosting, and secured by a couple of screws? I duplicated three stocks for a Winchester 94 for myself and friends, but those were easy, with no tolerance issues... but I am unsure about modern bolt actions.
This is the first of many questions that I have, for I am a long time gun collector, but a virgin 'restorer'. I have carved several sets of grips for my pistols... well that would be another thread. Lee

**4V50 Gary** · October 24, 2008, 08:02 AM

Slight pressure on a barrel can affect the point of impact. Wood stocks can be affected by humidity and as the wood swells, it touches the barrel, putting pressure on it and changing the point of impact. Hence, free floating is believed to be the best way to ensure consisting shooting. While the wood may swell (or shrink), so long as nothing contacts the barrel, the gun will continue to shoot the point of impact. Don't worry about the two bedding screws. That's all your really need (as well as properly bedding the recoil plate).

**4V50 Gary** · October 24, 2008, 08:03 AM

Can the carving duplicator take a flintlock stock and duplicate it? I'd love to get a synthetic stock or a laminated stock for a Ferguson. Laminated wood will eat up the Nicholson #49 and #50 files (I know someone who built two Fergusons and he had to replace his Nicholsons afterwards).

Clemson · October 24, 2008, 08:05 AM

Well, Lee, as you have discovered, glass bedding is overrated for accuracy improvement if the inletting is really good in the first place. What does happen, however, is that wood stocks expand and contract depending on environmental conditions, and that expansion and contraction can change the point of impact of the bullet, the "goodness" of fit of the barreled action in the stock, etc. The stock forend can move over and contact the barrel, which can lead to shots "walking" as the barrel warms up. Glass bedding provides a point of stability in the equation in that the bedding material stays in perfect contact with the action.

Most stock duplicators cut the inletting slightly undersized so that the stock fitter can achieve a really good fit between the metal and the wood. Most riflesmiths then use bedding compound at least around the recoil lug and in compression areas of the stock to achieve a tight fit and a stable platform. A factory stock may not be cut with that undersized inletting. The factory cannot afford to do the hand fitting.

Good luck with the duplicator business!

Clemson

Leedavisone · October 25, 2008, 11:51 AM

The Carving Duplicator does a superb job of carving all types of stocks, including laminates. I am not a stock maker myself, but I have carved them myself for my own rifles (and pistol grips). I am learning fast. My original question was concerning the Savage 110 that I carved in walnut. I did it exactly like the original that is 'floating', but I was unsure about it all. I feel better now. I developed a slightly oversize stylus (.015) for inletting that makes a perfect fit easy. Take a look at http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MESE:IT&ih=004
Lee Davis

October 23, 2008, 08:34 PM	#1
Leedavisone Member Join Date: September 11, 2008 Posts: 33	Carving New Stocks I work for a manufacturer of Carving Duplicators, and they market a Gunstock Duplicator that I had the pleasure of helping to design. I have been using one that I borrowed from the company some time ago (I am a furniture maker and engineer by profession), but I have used duplicators for 20 years now. I am fairly new to working on gunstocks, and I have heard many of the positive comments on the duplicators. But I have some questions about serious gunsmithing and stock making, since I really am ignorant about the fine points. I received a Savage 110 from my wife for a recent birthday (I told her what I wanted)... and it comes with a synthetic stock. Ugly, but functional, especially for the $379 she had to pay at Walmart! I bought a beautiful piece of walnut for a new stock, knocked it out in a few hours, all varnished and ready, and dropped the barrel and trigger in with no trimming (the duplicators are pretty good (take a look at "carving duplicator" on Ebay). But I have a question... We hear back from all the people that buy the duplicators that before they buy, they want to know how accurate it is for 'bedding' a barrel. Radarcarve (the manufacturer) guarantees accuracy to .005, which I assume is fairly good, for woodwork. So, I know that the gunstock makers are very particular. Why? This question comes about because I made this stock for my Savage, and the synthetic stock essentially is held by two screws up into the barrel, and nothing else. The forward part of the synthetic stock appears to be free floating and not even touching the barrel. It seems to me that all that secures the stock to the barrel is the two screws, the 'bedding be damned'. It shoots superbly with the new stock, don't get me wrong. But am I missing something here? One group says that 'bedding' is critical, the original company stock says a different story. Can someone help me out with this? How critical is 'bedding' a stock. Can it be free flosting, and secured by a couple of screws? I duplicated three stocks for a Winchester 94 for myself and friends, but those were easy, with no tolerance issues... but I am unsure about modern bolt actions. This is the first of many questions that I have, for I am a long time gun collector, but a virgin 'restorer'. I have carved several sets of grips for my pistols... well that would be another thread. Lee

October 24, 2008, 08:02 AM	#2
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,838	Slight pressure on a barrel can affect the point of impact. Wood stocks can be affected by humidity and as the wood swells, it touches the barrel, putting pressure on it and changing the point of impact. Hence, free floating is believed to be the best way to ensure consisting shooting. While the wood may swell (or shrink), so long as nothing contacts the barrel, the gun will continue to shoot the point of impact. Don't worry about the two bedding screws. That's all your really need (as well as properly bedding the recoil plate). __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

October 24, 2008, 08:03 AM	#3
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,838	Can the carving duplicator take a flintlock stock and duplicate it? I'd love to get a synthetic stock or a laminated stock for a Ferguson. Laminated wood will eat up the Nicholson #49 and #50 files (I know someone who built two Fergusons and he had to replace his Nicholsons afterwards). __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

October 24, 2008, 08:05 AM	#4
Clemson Senior Member Join Date: March 9, 2001 Location: Greenwood, SC Posts: 875	Well, Lee, as you have discovered, glass bedding is overrated for accuracy improvement if the inletting is really good in the first place. What does happen, however, is that wood stocks expand and contract depending on environmental conditions, and that expansion and contraction can change the point of impact of the bullet, the "goodness" of fit of the barreled action in the stock, etc. The stock forend can move over and contact the barrel, which can lead to shots "walking" as the barrel warms up. Glass bedding provides a point of stability in the equation in that the bedding material stays in perfect contact with the action. Most stock duplicators cut the inletting slightly undersized so that the stock fitter can achieve a really good fit between the metal and the wood. Most riflesmiths then use bedding compound at least around the recoil lug and in compression areas of the stock to achieve a tight fit and a stable platform. A factory stock may not be cut with that undersized inletting. The factory cannot afford to do the hand fitting. Good luck with the duplicator business! Clemson __________________ NRA Endowment Member, NRA Certified Instructor CWP Holder US Army veteran Gunsmith www.boltandbarrel.com

October 25, 2008, 11:51 AM	#5
Leedavisone Member Join Date: September 11, 2008 Posts: 33	The Carving Duplicator does a superb job of carving all types of stocks, including laminates. I am not a stock maker myself, but I have carved them myself for my own rifles (and pistol grips). I am learning fast. My original question was concerning the Savage 110 that I carved in walnut. I did it exactly like the original that is 'floating', but I was unsure about it all. I feel better now. I developed a slightly oversize stylus (.015) for inletting that makes a perfect fit easy. Take a look at http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MESE:IT&ih=004 Lee Davis